What are you doing with your "old" citizenship?

[raymaga 25]

I have "dual" citizenship (U.S. and Canada) and it would be very difficult to renounce my Canadian citizenship, even if I ever wanted to, which I definitely do not.

I have both a Canadian and a U.S. passport and will use my U.S. passport all of the time when I travel abroad, even when entering Canada.

The reason is that if you ever need help from an Embassy when you travel abroad, you have to go to the Embassy of the country where you "reside".

[MoroccanInTexas 24]

Here is my two cents. In Morocco you can not give up your citizenship. There is no such thing. And the Moroccan government accepts dual citizenship, as long as it is not invoked in Moroccan soil. You are Moroccan and so are your kids, even if they did not ask for the citizenship. The good thing is there is no military mandatory service, and the relationship with the US is good.

However, while in Morocco the US embassy states " The right of a dual national Moroccan-American arrested in Morocco to seek US consular assistance under international treaty is secondary to the Moroccan government's right to treat the arrested person solely as one of its own citizens." which means the Moroccan government will treat you as Moroccan, and the US has no business interfering.

When I get the US passport I will use it to enter the US, and all the other countries that ask for a visa for Moroccans. The Moroccan passport will be used for places where it is dangerous to show the blue passport.

I really do not have a choice giving up my old citizenship. It is not like I am gonna go to the Moroccan consulate , and till the Moroccan ambassador "tell his Majesty government, I am not a subject to your laws anymore. S...your monarchy system"

[NickD 203]

After I take the U.S. Citizenship Oath, I will... Keep my current citizenship, and become a "dual" citizen. Renounce my current citizenship, and become a U.S. citizen only I will apply for a U.S. passport Yes No As a dual citizen, I will only travel with my U.S. passport Yes No

First question, do nothing, but in some countries where you were born at always considered a citizen of that country.

Second question, yes, but that is only if you want to travel, and if you do travel, if you want to come back here.

Third question is very country dependent, if you own property and have to undergo legal transactions requiring a country ID and that countries passport, you better keep those up, but still would require a US passport to get back in.

So the answer to question 2 is only if you want to travel and come back here, 1 and 3 are very country dependent, and in some cases, not a matter of choice. Actually, if you want to travel, you really don't have any choice, have to abide by the rules of this and your other country. Key thing is to know what those rules are.

[Stella08 0]

In Germany the law changed in 2000 and you can have dual citizenship now. But before you acquire a new citizenship you have to get approval by the German government in order to not lose your German citizenship. You have to apply for a "Beibehaltungsgenehmigung" by giving acceptable reasons why you need to apply for another citizenship and explaining how you still keep ties to Germany. If this gets approved you can acquire another citizenship and keep your German citizenship.

In the past the only way you could hold dual citizenship in Germany was if you acquired another citizenship automatically, e.g. by birth or marriage.

[mkg265 2]

I'll add my info.

If you are an Albanian citizen, you can not renounce your citizenship. EVER. You can't go to the Albanian embassy in DC and hand over your Albanian passport and say "Well that was fun and all but it's only $20 and a two day wait for a 6 month visa so no thanks!"

You are a citizen forever, your children are citizens (no need to apply for it, they just are!) and even your grandchildren.

It's not too bad, Albanian taxes are about $40 a year and not paying them is common. The only downside is the manditory military service for males 27 and under but it can often be bought away or ignored.

This appears to be contrary to Albanian Law:

Article 4 of Chapter 1 of Article 16 of Law No.7491, dated 19.04.1991

Any Albanian citizen has the right to renounce the Albanian citizenship provided he has another citizenship, has acquired another citizenship or is guaranteed by the relevant bodies of the foreign country the granting of the citizenship.

The State Department also writes:

Dual Nationality: The Albanian government considers any person in Albania of Albanian parents to be an Albanian citizen. In addition to being subject to all Albanian laws affecting U.S. citizens, dual nationals may be subject to Albanian laws that impose special obligations. Male Albanian citizens are subject to compulsory military service regulations. If such persons are found guilty of draft evasion in Albania, they are subject to prosecution by the Albanian court. Those who might be affected should inquire at an Albanian Embassy or Consulate outside Albania regarding their status before traveling. In some instances, dual nationality may hamper U.S. Government efforts to provide protection abroad.

Put another way, if you are not Albanian, then neither are your children. However, should you not renounce, your children will be unless they renounce.

Albania looks beautiful and is situated on some gorgeous land. As prosperity comes, I expect it will become a very desirable place to live. MAybe you should let your kids decide for themselves. The mandatory military service might be gone by then.

A flet shqip?

Watch for laws that Albania posts in English because they are often very different when posted in Albanian...

The law clearly states if your parents are Albanian, and you are in Albania, then you are an Albanian citizen.

Plus the mandatory military service is easily "bought" away or you can call upon arcane family laws.

My kids will be Albanian, no shame in it.

[ChinaBabe 1]

As i know, China doesn't allow dual citizenship either. I am Chinese, going to to an american very soon. I would hate to get visa everytime i go back to China after i get my US citizenship.

Somebody talked about keep 2 passposts, just use whatever one on whichever country you are entering. My question is when you enter or leaving one country, you will get a stamp on your passport at the airport.

just say i go back to China,

1. leave with US passport, is the immigration officer in the US going to check if i have a Chinese visa before they let me on the airplane?

2. enter China with chinese passport, if the chinese immigration officer asked me about why i don't have a stamp on my chinese passport,what should i do? however,this probly can get away easily.

3.When i come back to USA, the chinese emmigration officer is going to make sure i have US visa before they let me go. if i leave with a Chinese passport without a US visa,they are not going to let me go. If i leave with a US passport, will have problem because there is no entering history or chinese visa on my US passport.

so, i know people can get away with it all the time. But it is so easy to get in trouble. Anybody have a better idea???

[sandbeetle 0]

United States Oath of Allegiance goes:

I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God.

So, IMHO, when one takes the US citizenship by naturalization one has renounced any other citizenship. That is, as far as your duties and responsibilities towards the US government, it does not matter whether one renounces officially or not to ones citizenship to another country. You must abide by that oath of allegiance as spelled out above.

Naturally such rules do not necessarily apply to those who are US citizens by birth, as they do not make the above oath. Thus, outside of the US they can take another citizenship as long as it is recognized by the US and as long as the foreign nation accepts dual citizenship with the US.

[edandying 0]

As i know, China doesn't allow dual citizenship either. I am Chinese, going to to an american very soon. I would hate to get visa everytime i go back to China after i get my US citizenship.

Somebody talked about keep 2 passposts, just use whatever one on whichever country you are entering. My question is when you enter or leaving one country, you will get a stamp on your passport at the airport.

just say i go back to China,

1. leave with US passport, is the immigration officer in the US going to check if i have a Chinese visa before they let me on the airplane?

2. enter China with chinese passport, if the chinese immigration officer asked me about why i don't have a stamp on my chinese passport,what should i do? however,this probly can get away easily.

3.When i come back to USA, the chinese emmigration officer is going to make sure i have US visa before they let me go. if i leave with a Chinese passport without a US visa,they are not going to let me go. If i leave with a US passport, will have problem because there is no entering history or chinese visa on my US passport.

so, i know people can get away with it all the time. But it is so easy to get in trouble. Anybody have a better idea???

Chinababe

I think it would be pretty much impossible to travel between USA and China on two passports. I would not even want to try, given that the discovery of the problem would occur in China. You are correct that China does not recognize dual citizenship, the US state dept says the same. The Chinese embassy requires that new US citizens who used to be Chinese nationals submit their Chinese passport ( so they can void it) with your request for visa in your US passport

A few observations on your scenario, if you depart the USA on your passport, USA immigration is not involved, but the airline will check to see if you have a valid visa to enter China. So you need to assume that you leave the US and enter China on a Chinese passport. ( you won't have a Chinese visa in your US passport). As you noticed the problems start when you try to leave China. You cannot use the Chinese passport as you have no visa to enter the US. You cannot use the US passport as there is no record of your entry into China. It is more than the stamp, there is a computer record also. Thats why the passport is passed through the reader each time. There is no way to not get caught and I would hate to get caught up in the ensuing mess.

I think most of the previous discussions are based on countries that allow or tolerate dual citizenship and where both countries do not require visas.

Edited February 27, 2009 by edandying

[ChinaBabe 1]

Thanks

I kinda see this already. just want to know a second opinion on it.

I won't even try to use 2 passports, it just not worth the trouble.

One thing i didn't know is that does the Chinese embassy really requires that new US citizens who used to be Chinese to submit their Chinese passport before they issue the Chinese visa? I've never heard of that.　

As i know, China doesn't allow dual citizenship either. I am Chinese, going to to an american very soon. I would hate to get visa everytime i go back to China after i get my US citizenship.

Somebody talked about keep 2 passposts, just use whatever one on whichever country you are entering. My question is when you enter or leaving one country, you will get a stamp on your passport at the airport.

just say i go back to China,

1. leave with US passport, is the immigration officer in the US going to check if i have a Chinese visa before they let me on the airplane?

2. enter China with chinese passport, if the chinese immigration officer asked me about why i don't have a stamp on my chinese passport,what should i do? however,this probly can get away easily.

3.When i come back to USA, the chinese emmigration officer is going to make sure i have US visa before they let me go. if i leave with a Chinese passport without a US visa,they are not going to let me go. If i leave with a US passport, will have problem because there is no entering history or chinese visa on my US passport.

so, i know people can get away with it all the time. But it is so easy to get in trouble. Anybody have a better idea???

Chinababe

I think it would be pretty much impossible to travel between USA and China on two passports. I would not even want to try, given that the discovery of the problem would occur in China. You are correct that China does not recognize dual citizenship, the US state dept says the same. The Chinese embassy requires that new US citizens who used to be Chinese nationals submit their Chinese passport ( so they can void it) with your request for visa in your US passport

A few observations on your scenario, if you depart the USA on your passport, USA immigration is not involved, but the airline will check to see if you have a valid visa to enter China. So you need to assume that you leave the US and enter China on a Chinese passport. ( you won't have a Chinese visa in your US passport). As you noticed the problems start when you try to leave China. You cannot use the Chinese passport as you have no visa to enter the US. You cannot use the US passport as there is no record of your entry into China. It is more than the stamp, there is a computer record also. Thats why the passport is passed through the reader each time. There is no way to not get caught and I would hate to get caught up in the ensuing mess.

I think most of the previous discussions are based on countries that allow or tolerate dual citizenship and where both countries do not require visas.

[AusCal 3]

I'm a little confused..

As a new US citizen, I am fortunate to be able to keep my Australian citizenship. I understand that fro travel to the US I need to use mu US passport - Australia has the same requirement that when I enter Australia I must do so on an Australian passport.

So, my question, if I am flying US to Australia - what passport details do I give at the airline ticket counter (and when making the reservation). Do I use my US passport, then use the Aussie one when going thru immigration at the Australian airport? I would think this would cause the airlines to give my the question such as "do you have a visa" since, to them, I would appear as a US citizen.

I would appreciate feedback from others who may have had similar travels.

TIA

[Stella08 0]

I'm a little confused..

As a new US citizen, I am fortunate to be able to keep my Australian citizenship. I understand that fro travel to the US I need to use mu US passport - Australia has the same requirement that when I enter Australia I must do so on an Australian passport.

So, my question, if I am flying US to Australia - what passport details do I give at the airline ticket counter (and when making the reservation). Do I use my US passport, then use the Aussie one when going thru immigration at the Australian airport? I would think this would cause the airlines to give my the question such as "do you have a visa" since, to them, I would appear as a US citizen.

I would appreciate feedback from others who may have had similar travels.

TIA

I can only tell you what I do when I travel with my children to Germany who are dual nationals. When I book the flight I list their American passports when it asks for a passport number. When we check in, I always show their American passports. Americans don't need a visa for Germany as long as they don't stay for more than 90 days, which we never do, so it doesn't matter if they are German citizens or not. When we arrive in Germany they go through customs with their German passports as required by law. When we leave Germany, they go through customs with their German passports again. But when we check in, they show their American passports to the airline. And this is important because we fly on a one-way-ticket to the States and the airline wants to see prove that you are authorized to stay there for more than 90 days (e.g. by American passport or greencard). Of course my children always show their American passport to American authorities.

Usually airlines don't care which passport you show to immigration when you enter a country. But they do care if you have valid visa or passport if it's required. I'm not sure if Americans need a visa for Australia, no matter how long they're staying. If they do, you always can show both passports to the airline, I guess. But as an American citizen I always would book my flight under my American passport if the States are the country I'm traveling from and back to. (Is this a correct sentence? )

[NickD 203]

When my wife was coming here with her Venezuelan passport and a US visa, they had to scribble out a I-94 and staple that in her book. When she had a green card, no longer had to do that. And the only person actually to check her dates was her USCIS IO at her N-400 interview to make sure she met the resident requirement. With over two hundred people in a plane, always a long line, they don't look at dates, just stamp it, Venezuela likes to see her Venezuelan passport, the US likes to see her US passport. I go in with a US passport, but don't need a visa to go there, but a Venezuelan needs a US visa to come here.

We should take a poll as to which is the worse country to go into, my vote is the USA, and they are a lot stricter with me, a natural born USC, coming from Colombia than Venezuela, going into those countries is effortless, coming back is a pain in the a$$, and I mean that literally.

[T and M 1]

United States Oath of Allegiance goes:

I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God.

So, IMHO, when one takes the US citizenship by naturalization one has renounced any other citizenship. That is, as far as your duties and responsibilities towards the US government, it does not matter whether one renounces officially or not to ones citizenship to another country. You must abide by that oath of allegiance as spelled out above.

Naturally such rules do not necessarily apply to those who are US citizens by birth, as they do not make the above oath. Thus, outside of the US they can take another citizenship as long as it is recognized by the US and as long as the foreign nation accepts dual citizenship with the US.

You should read the entire threat before posting! One might think that the naturalization oath causes one to lose his/her previous citizenship, but it most certainly DOES NOT. According to the US State Department:

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html

And if you read Chapter 75, Section 3 of the USCIS adjudicators field guide states you will see that:

"The concept of dual citizenship means that a person is a citizen of two countries at the same time. Dual nationality laws and policies depend on each country. The U.S. Government recognizes that dual citizenship exists, but does not endorse it as a matter of policy because of the problems that it may cause. Dual citizens owe allegiance to both the United States and the foreign country. They are required to obey the laws of both countries. Either country has the right to enforce its laws, particularly if the person later travels there. There may be a conflict with the U.S. laws, which may cause problems for the dual citizen. Additionally, dual citizenship may limit the United States Government’s efforts to assist United States citizens abroad."

[T and M 1]

I'm a little confused..

As a new US citizen, I am fortunate to be able to keep my Australian citizenship. I understand that fro travel to the US I need to use mu US passport - Australia has the same requirement that when I enter Australia I must do so on an Australian passport.

So, my question, if I am flying US to Australia - what passport details do I give at the airline ticket counter (and when making the reservation). Do I use my US passport, then use the Aussie one when going thru immigration at the Australian airport? I would think this would cause the airlines to give my the question such as "do you have a visa" since, to them, I would appear as a US citizen.

I would appreciate feedback from others who may have had similar travels.

TIA

I agree with Stella. Airline employees check for visas or passports so that they don't have to fly your a$$ back if you get rejected at the border. Since they have no governmental authority whatsoever I would say you can show whatever you want to them before your get on a flight. They can't arrest you.

Edited February 27, 2009 by Thomas and Milena

[Chocolot 0]

You leave US on the US passport and arrive in Oz using the Australian, and vice versa. There fore the booking, made in the US would use the US passport details. Leaving Australia you would leave using the Ozzi passport. It is done often, so I imagine the Australian customs and immigration are used to it. As for a visa, the answer I am a dual citizen should suffice.

I know people who used British and Australian and never encountered any problems.

I'm a little confused..

As a new US citizen, I am fortunate to be able to keep my Australian citizenship. I understand that fro travel to the US I need to use mu US passport - Australia has the same requirement that when I enter Australia I must do so on an Australian passport.

So, my question, if I am flying US to Australia - what passport details do I give at the airline ticket counter (and when making the reservation). Do I use my US passport, then use the Aussie one when going thru immigration at the Australian airport? I would think this would cause the airlines to give my the question such as "do you have a visa" since, to them, I would appear as a US citizen.

I would appreciate feedback from others who may have had similar travels.

TIA