how much do I put up with before deciding on divorce?

[confuzzled 0]

Thank you Visajourney for helping me an my husband navigate through getting a K1 visa and doing AOS. Where is the Post Icon of a broken heart? Now my marital ship is taking on some serious water. I think we might sink.

I am not a housewife type. I am not happy having life revolve around food - that is, cooking, and cleaning up after the cooking and the eating. And cleaning. His idea of clean is not mine. My idea of cleaning is keeping everything sanitary enough that ants, flys, cockroaches, and other bugs, plus mold or things like salmonella, that none of these things are encouraged to live with us. This causes conflict. I don't know how much I can change before it drives me crazy or at least makes me into someone I do not want to be. There are things in life to do and experience and unless the domestic activities are personally fulfilling to the person doing them, for ME it seems like a waste of time.

There are bedroom issues too. He won't listen to me when I try to describe how a bad day or being yelled at effects my interest in any action happening in the bedroom. I can't say too much more before it would be indecent of me. I let him "have me" too many times when I didn't want to. Now the culminating act is uncomfortable and sometimes painful. I tried to describe this too him so we could work it out. Maybe there is a communication issue. His english is good enough for most days, but maybe not good enough for this? He won't brush his teeth and they look bad. I know my breathe is not good either, but trying to not smell his when we are intimate - plus not wanting to breathe into his nose - makes for a tense scenario for me. Which is part of my tension at that time.

He doesn't like my sister. They had some issues. She certainly has her problems, but he insists on describing them to her in glaring terms trying to make me not like her as much, or maybe just to make me see who she really is. And he says he doesn't want her to think he is keeping me from talking to her. He thinks I only defend her, but that I don't defend him when she says something not so nice about him. I know I need to be cautious with how I say things to her or it will cause her to get the wrong idea (she feels the whole world is against her sometimes - and given her past I can understand somewhat why) and make the whole situation escalate out of control. He does not want to see that I am trying to do that. They are both strong willed.

He does not treat my dog very well. She is my dog and I should have say over how she is treated. She is shy, easily spooked. She seems to react that way more in response to men. He likes to chase her and some dogs see that as play (today he did that and did something so she yipped a couple times - he said that he was trying to teach her to act like a real dog), but she shakes and her tail tucks and if he raises her hand she cowers down. I see things that alarm me. It's starting to get abusive and I don't want her to live her remaining time shaking and being chased. I fear she might slip running away down the steps. She is getting old and be already slips sometimes without being chased. I start to feel that this is a bad situation for her and I need to get her out of it. That makes me wonder if maybe it's bad for me too. Or maybe I've just been reading too much about animals mirroring us - and sometimes showing us what our emotions are telling us even if we don't see it so clearly.

I make many tiny mistakes rather often and he does not want to hear "I'm sorry." I feel he over reacts and gets more irritated than the situation warrants. I noticed my body language feels like I'm trying to make him feel like he has been punishing enough and please to stop because I can't take much more. I used to cry. When I became hysterical he would finally stop and go all nice. Once I would calm down he would go, "I didn't want you to be this upset. But...." Now I just feel doowwwwwn. My heart feels heavy.

He puts me down with words. And of course he's "just" trying to point out areas where I need work. He says I only make excuses. I've heard of breaking someone down to build them back up, but... when will he build me back up?

He threatens divorce. He talks about going to other girls if I don't change.

He says I'm only thinking about myself, that I am not thinking about his feelings. He gets mad and I get verrrry sad. You know that kind of sad where you don't feel like you have energy to stand up, and you might notice you stomach feels empty, but you don't really care? When I'm like that, I don't know how to see his feelings. All I see is anger, and it does not feel justified. He said I always have an excuse, "tell me what it will be tomorrow so I'll know early." The idea of jumping up to make him food makes me feel like I would be reacting out of fear of his reaction. That makes me feel like I am about to act like a door mat. After the last two days, I'm always waiting for something to happen accidentally to set him off again. Is that a way to live? Fearing what the other person will do if you don't have dinner ready on time?

There are other things too. I'm trying to keep it to the ones that hurt or concern me the most. Did I say he started snapping pens and has started throwing things when he feels mad? He says in his culture if the wife was like I am, the husband would hit her.

I get compared to women from his country.

And in some way I feel like it's my fault. I'm sure in some way there is something I could have done to stop this from getting so bad. I know there are some cultural differences - although occassionally I try to show him that, but he says that's not cultural, that it's a problem in me. Or he agrees and talks about how it is a disease with Americans. The way he says it, I start to be offended. Sometimes he isn't quite serious, but I have always had some trouble knowing if he was joking. I know he changed a lot of things when he came here. I don't know how much more I can change. And I don't know if I want to be the person I would have to become if I changed certain things.

There is this widening gulf between us. I didn't want it to be this way. I don't know how to fix it. If it can be fixed. Or if it is too much for me. I don't know how to cater to him without losing myself. Will catering to him make him listen to how I feel? I know it would be bad to bring a child into this, so getting pregnant is out.

He is smart. He can figure people out very quickly. He learns quickly too, and his memory is much better than mine. He does not understand that he has an advantage in these areas. He trusts his ideas about people. But sometimes he is wrong or does not have the right info, coming from a different cultural background. He does not distinguish between the two. Whatever, it makes me second guess myself, from all the things he tells me about me. In the areas he is correct about, it's good to know, but the way he says it to me is not tactful. Which of these things is he right about, and which ones are flat out WRONG?

I know he is not beating me or anything like that. I don't know if he would or not. With the pen breaking and the knocking things over, increasingly foul language, the talk about what he would do I was from his country, it makes me wonder. He says things in anger and does not censor himself, but it makes me consider if he might one day do something. My first husband was rather a wimp and even though I imagined he might do something, I never really had the feeling that he would. With this man, I do not know.

How long do I sit through this? I rack my mind trying to think of what I could say or do, but I am not savvy or street smart. Everything I say is wrong or makes things worse. He pushes me verbally for answers. Sometimes the question is a loaded question, and many times I do not know how to answer. For example, the question should not be if the man is justified in cheating because his wife would not "sleep" with him, the question should be, "why does she not want to sleep with him." "Sleeping" with someone, in what experience I do have, has usually been uncomfortable because I get tense. I think the only thing that would please him, is if I took a shower right now and put on feminine clothes, and when he comes up for bed, go up to him and say that I'm sorry I've been a bad wife and have not been sleeping with him, and maybe cry and go on about how wrong I was and how I will only cook things from his country from now on, and it will always be on time. It's not good to do "that" if it hurts, and I can't see living life around the kitchen. That is sooooo not me. Do I have to do that to make this work out?

Come on VJers, I really need some support right now. He is all edges right now and I'm already treading one. What are my options?

I'm so mentally and emotionally drained.

[confuzzled 0]

PS. He has been in the US for a year and 7 months.

[Loolie 56]

all i can say is your not ready to be a wife...thats all.

[confuzzled 0]

What clued you up that I'm not ready to be a wife? I'm a rotten wife.

I did not want the marriage to be this way. It was fine at first, except he got tired of eating what I gave him.

So is there anything constructive to say?

He has been here a year and some months as I said, and we have been married for most of it.

Edited February 25, 2009 by confuzzled

[Loolie 56]

because of the way you are thats why i said that...you as a wife has to submit yourself to your husband...you are not ready to do that.

what you were talking was such an immature thing...talking about not brushing the teeth and about your dog...etc etc.. i mean if you are matured enough and ready to be a wife...you wont talk something like that against your husband...if you think you dont love your husband anymore then file for divorce...you dont need to elaborate all the things that he does..my gosh...if your not a housewife type then just be his wife.

[wowswift 3]

I think she said he doesn't brush his teeth. I don't think you're in a good situation. If you guys aren't able to communicate, its never going to change at all and will just get worse. I wouldn't put up with that. Sounds like he isn't ready to be a husband if he is threatening to go find someone else. If my husband said that, I'd just say the same back or say good, go away. Those aren't things people say when they're in a supportive marriage.

Has it been like this since he got here, or just now getting worse? I don't know if you guys told each other your expectations of a marriage before you got married either, so I don't know how much you knew about what you were getting into either. Sounds like he is immature and throwing temper tantrums. I wouldn't stay. You can't be the one doing all the changing either. You will never be happy.

[confuzzled 0]

Ok.

If submitting means being injured in my female parts down below then I refuse. It is unhealthy to allow myself to be in that situation. That has nothing to do with immaturity. (and as for teeth, he has never been to a dentist in his life -- and I only mentioned that tooth thing to begin with because it was significant to me and because I could be anonymous) Be careful with the word "submit." It is best used in connection with God. As in submit to God.

I do not want to give up too soon.

Things started out ok then slowly got bad, and now the last 2 days or so it's getting worse.

Edited February 25, 2009 by confuzzled

[luv2uallday 1]

Thank you Visajourney for helping me an my husband navigate through getting a K1 visa and doing AOS. Where is the Post Icon of a broken heart? Now my marital ship is taking on some serious water. I think we might sink.

I am not a housewife type. I am not happy having life revolve around food - that is, cooking, and cleaning up after the cooking and the eating. And cleaning. His idea of clean is not mine. My idea of cleaning is keeping everything sanitary enough that ants, flys, cockroaches, and other bugs, plus mold or things like salmonella, that none of these things are encouraged to live with us. This causes conflict. I don't know how much I can change before it drives me crazy or at least makes me into someone I do not want to be. There are things in life to do and experience and unless the domestic activities are personally fulfilling to the person doing them, for ME it seems like a waste of time.

There are bedroom issues too. He won't listen to me when I try to describe how a bad day or being yelled at effects my interest in any action happening in the bedroom. I can't say too much more before it would be indecent of me. I let him "have me" too many times when I didn't want to. Now the culminating act is uncomfortable and sometimes painful. I tried to describe this too him so we could work it out. Maybe there is a communication issue. His english is good enough for most days, but maybe not good enough for this? He won't brush his teeth and they look bad. I know my breathe is not good either, but trying to not smell his when we are intimate - plus not wanting to breathe into his nose - makes for a tense scenario for me. Which is part of my tension at that time.

He doesn't like my sister. They had some issues. She certainly has her problems, but he insists on describing them to her in glaring terms trying to make me not like her as much, or maybe just to make me see who she really is. And he says he doesn't want her to think he is keeping me from talking to her. He thinks I only defend her, but that I don't defend him when she says something not so nice about him. I know I need to be cautious with how I say things to her or it will cause her to get the wrong idea (she feels the whole world is against her sometimes - and given her past I can understand somewhat why) and make the whole situation escalate out of control. He does not want to see that I am trying to do that. They are both strong willed.

He does not treat my dog very well. She is my dog and I should have say over how she is treated. She is shy, easily spooked. She seems to react that way more in response to men. He likes to chase her and some dogs see that as play (today he did that and did something so she yipped a couple times - he said that he was trying to teach her to act like a real dog), but she shakes and her tail tucks and if he raises her hand she cowers down. I see things that alarm me. It's starting to get abusive and I don't want her to live her remaining time shaking and being chased. I fear she might slip running away down the steps. She is getting old and be already slips sometimes without being chased. I start to feel that this is a bad situation for her and I need to get her out of it. That makes me wonder if maybe it's bad for me too. Or maybe I've just been reading too much about animals mirroring us - and sometimes showing us what our emotions are telling us even if we don't see it so clearly.

I make many tiny mistakes rather often and he does not want to hear "I'm sorry." I feel he over reacts and gets more irritated than the situation warrants. I noticed my body language feels like I'm trying to make him feel like he has been punishing enough and please to stop because I can't take much more. I used to cry. When I became hysterical he would finally stop and go all nice. Once I would calm down he would go, "I didn't want you to be this upset. But...." Now I just feel doowwwwwn. My heart feels heavy.

He puts me down with words. And of course he's "just" trying to point out areas where I need work. He says I only make excuses. I've heard of breaking someone down to build them back up, but... when will he build me back up?

He threatens divorce. He talks about going to other girls if I don't change.

He says I'm only thinking about myself, that I am not thinking about his feelings. He gets mad and I get verrrry sad. You know that kind of sad where you don't feel like you have energy to stand up, and you might notice you stomach feels empty, but you don't really care? When I'm like that, I don't know how to see his feelings. All I see is anger, and it does not feel justified. He said I always have an excuse, "tell me what it will be tomorrow so I'll know early." The idea of jumping up to make him food makes me feel like I would be reacting out of fear of his reaction. That makes me feel like I am about to act like a door mat. After the last two days, I'm always waiting for something to happen accidentally to set him off again. Is that a way to live? Fearing what the other person will do if you don't have dinner ready on time?

There are other things too. I'm trying to keep it to the ones that hurt or concern me the most. Did I say he started snapping pens and has started throwing things when he feels mad? He says in his culture if the wife was like I am, the husband would hit her.

I get compared to women from his country.

And in some way I feel like it's my fault. I'm sure in some way there is something I could have done to stop this from getting so bad. I know there are some cultural differences - although occassionally I try to show him that, but he says that's not cultural, that it's a problem in me. Or he agrees and talks about how it is a disease with Americans. The way he says it, I start to be offended. Sometimes he isn't quite serious, but I have always had some trouble knowing if he was joking. I know he changed a lot of things when he came here. I don't know how much more I can change. And I don't know if I want to be the person I would have to become if I changed certain things.

There is this widening gulf between us. I didn't want it to be this way. I don't know how to fix it. If it can be fixed. Or if it is too much for me. I don't know how to cater to him without losing myself. Will catering to him make him listen to how I feel? I know it would be bad to bring a child into this, so getting pregnant is out.

He is smart. He can figure people out very quickly. He learns quickly too, and his memory is much better than mine. He does not understand that he has an advantage in these areas. He trusts his ideas about people. But sometimes he is wrong or does not have the right info, coming from a different cultural background. He does not distinguish between the two. Whatever, it makes me second guess myself, from all the things he tells me about me. In the areas he is correct about, it's good to know, but the way he says it to me is not tactful. Which of these things is he right about, and which ones are flat out WRONG?

I know he is not beating me or anything like that. I don't know if he would or not. With the pen breaking and the knocking things over, increasingly foul language, the talk about what he would do I was from his country, it makes me wonder. He says things in anger and does not censor himself, but it makes me consider if he might one day do something. My first husband was rather a wimp and even though I imagined he might do something, I never really had the feeling that he would. With this man, I do not know.

How long do I sit through this? I rack my mind trying to think of what I could say or do, but I am not savvy or street smart. Everything I say is wrong or makes things worse. He pushes me verbally for answers. Sometimes the question is a loaded question, and many times I do not know how to answer. For example, the question should not be if the man is justified in cheating because his wife would not "sleep" with him, the question should be, "why does she not want to sleep with him." "Sleeping" with someone, in what experience I do have, has usually been uncomfortable because I get tense. I think the only thing that would please him, is if I took a shower right now and put on feminine clothes, and when he comes up for bed, go up to him and say that I'm sorry I've been a bad wife and have not been sleeping with him, and maybe cry and go on about how wrong I was and how I will only cook things from his country from now on, and it will always be on time. It's not good to do "that" if it hurts, and I can't see living life around the kitchen. That is sooooo not me. Do I have to do that to make this work out?

Come on VJers, I really need some support right now. He is all edges right now and I'm already treading one. What are my options?

I'm so mentally and emotionally drained.

What you are describing is MARRIAGE its living with his and YOUR bad habits its getting to know each other and learning how to live with each other. You want a fairy tale marriage that works your way the problem that is not how real life works. You are gonna have to learn to comprimise on issues give and take he will t oo I suggest marriage counseling

Also, your setting up for your marriage to fail. You won't be satisfied till it does. Because you are scared and find it difficult to adjust. You know what he's not perfect and neither are you stop holding him to YOUR standards. No man can be made to live like that.

If you can't make this marriage work when you have problems with everyday life in a marriage IMAGINE what your next marriage will be? Just one more failure. So look at yourself look at your marriage and see what YOU can do to change all the problems in your self to make the marriage work. Don't focus so much on your husband. Because change starts with you first.

Marriage is hard work blood sweat and tears.. It's time you cut your teeth on it. god bless and be stronge.

[Rob&Dawn 1]

I can't believe some of the responses you have had from the PI members...#######!!

You do not have to stay in an abusive marriage...there are forms of mental abuse it doesn't just have to be physical. he sounds like he has intelligence, surely he understands what he is doing?!

Why on earth should you be chained to either the bed or the kitchen sink to have a successful marriage?? Marriage is a 2 way street, you both have to work at making a go of it, one person making all the changes is NOT a solution IMO!

If you husband is so strung up on what a wife from his own country should be like he should have thought about that before moving to US and marrying into a different culture.. The adult choice would have been for him to discuss how submissive a wife he wanted before you married.

Perhaps suggest counselling for you both? Something needs to change and it does NOT all have to be you!

If he is not willing to meet you half way and change some of his expectations of a dutiful wife you either have to be submissive to him or get the hell out!

I wish you all the luck in the world.

[Old Dominion 26]

What is the answer that you WANT to read? From one perspective, it can be said that you want to remain the person you were before marriage. Viewed this way, he has the status of a guest in your house. A guest is not expected to comment on the accommodations, but be thankful for them. From another perspective, there is no indication that you enjoy one another's company. That is like having a houseguest who has overstayed his welcome. From yet another, he is abusive toward you by being a chronic complainer and full of put-downs. He doesn't know the meaning of the word respect.

If there is no marriage except occasionally in bed, and you are getting on one another's nerves, and there is no one who can help the two of you talk it through, then go your separate ways without looking back.

You give no indication of where your visa journey has taken you. Does he have his green card yet? Does he work outside the home? Those things count in trying to offer advice.

[Ban Hammer 13,481]

because of the way you are thats why i said that...you as a wife has to submit yourself to your husband...you are not ready to do that.

what you were talking was such an immature thing...talking about not brushing the teeth and about your dog...etc etc.. i mean if you are matured enough and ready to be a wife...you wont talk something like that against your husband...if you think you dont love your husband anymore then file for divorce...you dont need to elaborate all the things that he does..my gosh...if your not a housewife type then just be his wife.

i don't believe that means it gives the husband the right to run right over her all the time.

I can't believe some of the responses you have had from the PI members...#######!!

agreed

[Bobby+Umit 161]

He threatens divorce. He talks about going to other girls if I don't change.

You have your answer. Take him up on it.

"When there is a doubt, there is no doubt"

[SMOKE 1,426]

'submit to your husband'

[rrobin 2]

because of the way you are thats why i said that...you as a wife has to submit yourself to your husband...you are not ready to do that.

what you were talking was such an immature thing...talking about not brushing the teeth and about your dog...etc etc.. i mean if you are matured enough and ready to be a wife...you wont talk something like that against your husband...if you think you dont love your husband anymore then file for divorce...you dont need to elaborate all the things that he does..my gosh...if your not a housewife type then just be his wife.

bmtrrbt your concept of marriage is very evangelical and/or archaic and not many people think that way anymore.

I fully support the OP. You have a RIGHT to be happy. It is your life. Yes, in marriage you have to compromise a lot but marriage is not supposed to be a struggle every minute of the day.

Before you make up your mind to finish it all, talk to him openly about how you feel and what do you expect from him. If that does not work, go for marriage counseling.

Edited February 25, 2009 by rrobin

[caybee 21]

Some of this does sound like normal adjustments to marriage, but some of what you describe goes too far. You are husband and wife, partners. You should each be contributing to the marriage out of love for the other person and respect for the marriage, not out of fear. Marriage is hard work and compromise on both sides, but veiled threats like telling someone that in your culture they would deserve to be hit for what they are doing/not doing crosses the line. And constant belittling is verbal abuse that takes a toll over time. Breaking and throwing objects is a form of intimidation also, and it's often not much of a stretch to go from that to physical violence against a person.

You are already starting to belittle yourself in your own writing. Whether that's a result of hearing negativity from your partner or because of low self-esteem you already had, it's not healthy behavior from you, and it won't help things get any better. Please go to a counselor and get help sorting through what you can change here and what you cannot, what's reasonable behavior from a partner and what is not. Only then will you be able to decide how to proceed.