Blanket is evidence PA boy planned to kill.

[Heracles 417]

There's quite a few reasons I suspect - but this is probably one you might want to explore in a thread dedicated to that, and not one about an 11 yr old shooting his stepmother - as I suspect little about this case fits the "norm".

I understand that. I am asking, in general, for you to speculate why the murder rate is almost triple that of other western English speaking OECD nations.

Personally I think there are a range of reasons such as:

• Preservation of ones so-called rights overriding someone's or some child's right to live in a society free of harm and abuse. AKA Send out the wrong message to people
• The growing attitude of each to their own (whatever). Rather than sticking together as a community. AKA Community spirit
• Desensitization towards violence and harming others. AKA Me first, #### everyone else dooog..
• Byproduct of misunderstanding the 1st amendment's actual rather than literal definition. Thanks to liberals and lawyers Who have taken freedom to express political views out of context and turned it into a freedom to literally do as one pleases. Then claim the country is so lucky ("greatest country in the world") to have this. Like everyone else in the world is some sort of idiot for not allowing people to literally do as they choose.
• Focus on freedom of choice rather than consequences of one's actions. AKA Send out the wrong message to people
• Easy access by minors to violence via a range of mediums. AKA Desensitization
• Glorification of being a 'Gangsta' or abusing drugs. AKA Being a dumb-#### moron
• Forceful removal of any spiritual oriented activities from society. Which leads to hopelessness.
• Parents have choice to pop out kid. Yet if they are negligent at raising the kids, then it's up to society to pay for this kid be it through welfare or as a result of crime. As long as it doesn't impede on the parents freedom of choice.

What is not the cause

• Gun ownership

Edited February 25, 2009 by Aficionado

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

This is a tangent BY - start a new thread.

[Heracles 417]

This is a tangent BY - start a new thread.

Six if you want proof just read the first line mate:

An 11-year-old boy apparently covered his shotgun with a blanket to keep it hidden when he left his bedroom, went downstairs and fatally shot his father's pregnant girlfriend in the head as she slept

I don't know of too many 11 years old who would think about it let alone dare do this in my time mate. Asked all of my siblings / cousins and they never ever heard of such a thing. One being a detective and the other actually being a former District Attorney. Sorry bud that you cannot use the it's the media's fault on this one as such cases simply did not happen 10 to 20 years ago.

It wasn't to long ago that 3rd graders had planned to actually kill their teacher.

Edited February 25, 2009 by Aficionado

[Saddle Bronc 124]

This is a tangent BY - start a new thread.

Eh, don't give BY any ideas--his posts are cent-percent tangential.

[lostinblue 1,989]

I hate guns, I really do. And I hate how people say "Guns don't kill people, people kill people!" WELL HELLO if those people that kill people didn't have guns it would be more complicated than just a flick of the finger to do so. And people with guns kill people on accident too.

It just makes me get a sad feeling inside when I hear people say, "Yeah I'm gettin' ma kid a youth sized shot gun fer christmas!"

I care about people and life itself too much to take something like guns so lightly. They aren't kids toys. They aren't IDIOTS toys either.

It's funny that even with this opinion I dated an ####### for half a year that hunted religiously and owned a bunch of guns. Some in his room and a couple under a blanket behind the seats in his ugly pickup truck. What was I thinking?

One of my best friends committed suicide a few years ago.His dad was one of those big time NRA buffs with rifles all over the house.I just keep thinking if it weren't for those ####### guns,my buddy would still be with us today.

what if he had hung himself. Then blame all the rope mfg's. No sense to this argument.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

This is a tangent BY - start a new thread.

Six if you want proof just read the first line mate:

An 11-year-old boy apparently covered his shotgun with a blanket to keep it hidden when he left his bedroom, went downstairs and fatally shot his father's pregnant girlfriend in the head as she slept

I don't know of too many 11 years old who would think about it let alone dare do this in my time mate. Asked all of my siblings / cousins and they never ever heard of such a thing. One being a detective and the other actually being a former District Attorney.

I don't know any either - but I really doubt this one case provides much insight into overall crime rates.

[Heracles 417]

I don't know any either - but I really doubt this one case provides much insight into overall crime rates.

That is the issue. It isn't just one case. It's a growing trend. No 11 year old thinks like that unless he has seen it somewhere and become comfortable with it. TV ratings are useless as kids can download it with ease off the net.

If the parent/s was negligent in any way, they too should go to prison for this. Yes it is time for the laws to change to reflect this. Up until the age of 18, the kids parents should be liable for the kids action.

At that age we were looking at tits rather than pondering (not even for a second) about pulling something as heinous as that off.

Have you ever seen what something like that looks like?

Edited February 25, 2009 by Aficionado

[Peikko 1,575]

If it was a trend, it wouldn't have created such sensational headlines.

Like the 11 year old dad, or the woman giving birth to octuplets who just happens to already have 6 other invitro born children. These things are totally abnormal hence why they get such a lot of attention.

Talking of the abnormal, did anything happen with that 8 year old who was accused of killing his dad and another guy?

[Heracles 417]

Talking of the abnormal, did anything happen with that 8 year old who was accused of killing his dad and another guy?

[Peikko 1,575]

BY, you really are one of a kind. An engineer who apparently knows nothing about mathematics. You don't understand Venn, you don't understand clusters and you seem to singularly lack any understanding of trends.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I don't know any either - but I really doubt this one case provides much insight into overall crime rates.

That is the issue. It isn't just one case. It's a growing trend. No 11 year old thinks like that unless he has seen it somewhere and become comfortable with it. TV ratings are useless as kids can download it with ease off the net.

If the parent/s was negligent in any way, they too should go to prison for this. Yes it is time for the laws to change to reflect this. Up until the age of 18, the kids parents should be liable for the kids action.

At that age we were looking at tits rather than pondering (not even for a second) about pulling something as heinous as that off.

Have you ever seen what something like that looks like?

You just said that you don't know of any 11 year olds that would do something like this, yet now its a "growing trend".

According to who?

Again there's nothing to suggest that this kid (if he did what he is accused of) was motivated by the media. I get that you want to connect this case with some overarching ideological argument - but you're really banging a square peg into a round hole here.

I hate guns, I really do. And I hate how people say "Guns don't kill people, people kill people!" WELL HELLO if those people that kill people didn't have guns it would be more complicated than just a flick of the finger to do so. And people with guns kill people on accident too.

It just makes me get a sad feeling inside when I hear people say, "Yeah I'm gettin' ma kid a youth sized shot gun fer christmas!"

I care about people and life itself too much to take something like guns so lightly. They aren't kids toys. They aren't IDIOTS toys either.

It's funny that even with this opinion I dated an ####### for half a year that hunted religiously and owned a bunch of guns. Some in his room and a couple under a blanket behind the seats in his ugly pickup truck. What was I thinking?

One of my best friends committed suicide a few years ago.His dad was one of those big time NRA buffs with rifles all over the house.I just keep thinking if it weren't for those ####### guns,my buddy would still be with us today.

what if he had hung himself. Then blame all the rope mfg's. No sense to this argument.

What if?

What kind of reasoning is that...

Edited February 25, 2009 by Paul Daniels

[Heracles 417]

You just said that you don't know of any 11 year olds that would do something like this, yet now its a "growing trend".

According to who?

Feel free to look at google. There were more than a handful of articles posted on VJ alone about similar cases last year.

Six, you are one of those guys who if it doesn't affect you then you don't care and it is not a big deal. Anyone bringing it up (or the media) is apparently simply making something out of nothing. Yet ironically when it comes to stuff like the government being proactive or the Patriot Act, then the paranoia kicks in. Exaggerating and stating that we will end up in a V for Vendetta or Children of men type situation is perfectly acceptable.

The difference there is the one is a paranoid fantasy while the other involves the reality of a pregnant lady (human being) with her brains blown out of her head. Who is now dead at the hands of an 11 year old boy. Who not only planned but executed a woman.

Edited February 25, 2009 by Aficionado

[Peikko 1,575]

BY, in your hands, google is not your friend.

The only other case of a young child accused of murdering an adult was the one I referenced, and there were huge holes in the credibility of that case, hence why I was curious as to an update.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

You just said that you don't know of any 11 year olds that would do something like this, yet now its a "growing trend".

According to who?

Feel free to look at google. There were more than a handful of articles posted on VJ alone about similar cases last year.

Six, you are one of those guys who if it doesn't affect you then you don't care and it is not a big deal. Anyone bringing it up (or the media) is making something out of nothing. Yet ironically when it comes to stuff like the government being proactive or the Patriot Act, then the paranoia kicks in and exaggerating and stating that we will end up in a V for Vendetta or Children of men type situation is perfectly acceptable.

The difference there is the one is a paranoid fantasy while the other involves the reality of a pregnant lady (human being) with her brains blown out of her head. Who is now dead at the hands of an 11 year old boy.

Its a shocking case BY, I've certainly not denied that.

What I do think is a little suspect is the idea that based on a few scattered headlines that you can legitimately conclude that not only did the boy do it exactly as described in the article (trial by media in other words) but that you have a full psychological workup on why he did it - and that exposure violence in the media is a strong part of that equation.

What seems clear is that you have a preconceived agenda to explain the crime rate in the US, and that any case that pops up in the news headlines can be hammered to fit that agenda.

[Heracles 417]

Its a shocking case BY, I've certainly not denied that.

What I do think is a little suspect is the idea that based on a few scattered headlines that you can legitimately conclude that not only did the boy do it exactly as described in the article (trial by media in other words) but that you have a full psychological workup on why he did it - and that exposure violence in the media is a strong part of that equation.

What seems clear is that you have a preconceived agenda to explain the crime rate in the US, and that any case that pops up in the news headlines can be hammered to fit that agenda.

Summary of a PD post:

• Apparently not denying
• Discredit evidence
• Never justify or explain your own ideas, viewpoint, of the question at hand

Dude, you sing the same tune in every single post. And as I have said before, this is not a press conference where you simply get to interrogate the speaker but never provide any feedback or data of your own.

Therefore as asked earlier on, can you speculate why the homicide rate (per capita) is almost three times that of the UK, Canada and Australia? Almost more than them all combined. Yes or No. If no, then shut up and move along.

Edited February 25, 2009 by Aficionado