Huge gamma-ray blast spotted 12.2 bln light-years from earth

[William33 110]

I knew that some could not get their mind around this concept, which is why I raised it.

People demand a quantifiable explanation for everything, even when none exists....

I believe the Universe is endless, but limited.

Scott,

Please help me understand the bolded statement......Which appears contradictory....

Perhaps I should say "finite" instead of limited. Think of a curved surface like that of a balloon. An ant could walk on it endlessly in any direction without reaching a point beyond which it could not go, but the actual area it can walk on is finite, limited. This is just a picture, of course, and the actual structure of the Universe is more complex, but it shows how the Universe being endless (in the sense of being without boundaries) and its being finite or limited are not necessarily contradictory. And, yes, the balloon also has an internal volume and it exists with three dimensional space around it, but it still helps with understanding the concept.

For clarification, are you suggesting that space has a finite end? Given my previous example of a space vehicle that could actually travel beyond our technological scope, we woud reach some end?

I'd say space has limited volume and mass (it is not infinite, though it is expanding), but as for a space vehicle reaching an end, it depends on what you mean by an "end." I don't think there is a barrier that you would reach beyond which you cannot cross, like a car going down an alley and reaching a dead-end wall, or like being inside a box and going from the center to one of the sides and having to stop there even though there is an "outside" to the box beyond the wall you've just encountered. Taking the balloon illustration again, the ship (ant) could travel forever in any direction in space, as defined by the ballon's surface, without ever encountering an end where the ship could go no further. Due to the curvature of the balloon, the ship could reach its starting point without reversing, but the same may or may not apply with the universe, depending on the actual geometries of the mutliple dimensions of space-time.

OK Scott, you provided a very well defined opinion.

Advancing the original point, I am convinced that there is no circular loop, rather uncharted territory with no end. We have no evidence to the contrary.

So, do you think the volume or mass of space are infinite?

As the son of a very prominent aeronautical engineer, yes.

[NickD 202]

A lot of the space time warp theory is based on the characteristic of electromagnetic radiation of light around 5 X 10^14 Hertz and is in our visible spectrum. I don't understand this stuff, but just use it, where light would shoot straight out and electromagnetic frequency, same h-e stuff as say 25Khz, that is really affected by the gravity of the earth and will follow the curvature of the earth for reliable radio communications, submarines use that frequency. While Einstein may say riding on a beam of light and approaching an incoming light rate while the speed of light should be doubled, says you are only approaching at the speed of light. Maybe with images, but Loran C would not work operating at 200Khz, with two electromagnetic radiated signals coming from opposite directions, the speed of light is effectively doubled, no if's ands, or butts about this.

The nature of h and e fields in terms of energy are identical regardless of the operating frequency and all travel at the same speed, the speed of light, but the effects of gravity are entirely different with frequency. But even the speed of light can be varied substantially dependent on the media it travels though. This is used daily with different forms of waveguides, fiber optics, and coaxially cable to form different time delays. Between 25 KHz, and 500 MHz, the effects of gravity are entirely different, 500 MHz travels in nearly a straight line where 25 KHz will follow the curvature of the earth, giving darn good reason why HDTV won't work worth a darn.

But just like Chavez put his trusted idiots in charge of oil production, our government put their trusted political idiots in charge of the FCC that don't know the first thing about electromagnetic radiation. And to some extend neither do these top theoretical physicists. They are just stuck on the visible spectrum or slightly above in the ultraviolet or below in the infrared. Should study electronics as well.

Can't even explain how galaxies are formed and what holds them together, but it's working, so come up with such things as dark matter and energy. This follows that we also must have the speed of dark that is the opposite of the speed of light. And perhaps the big bang was not a bright flash of light, but a flash of dark that can travel a magnitude faster than the speed of light. This would explain why the universe is so much larger in terms of light years of distance compared to it's age. We still have a lot to learn. And since they are looking at light that came here from billions of years ago, can't even conclude that those sources are still there.

Science phenomena is based on observations with then the mathematicians using those observations to develop formulaes. But using math to come up with theories is exactly opposite, as they say, figures never lie, but liars figure.

[Scott & Lai 12]

I knew that some could not get their mind around this concept, which is why I raised it.

People demand a quantifiable explanation for everything, even when none exists....

I believe the Universe is endless, but limited.

Scott,

Please help me understand the bolded statement......Which appears contradictory....

Perhaps I should say "finite" instead of limited. Think of a curved surface like that of a balloon. An ant could walk on it endlessly in any direction without reaching a point beyond which it could not go, but the actual area it can walk on is finite, limited. This is just a picture, of course, and the actual structure of the Universe is more complex, but it shows how the Universe being endless (in the sense of being without boundaries) and its being finite or limited are not necessarily contradictory. And, yes, the balloon also has an internal volume and it exists with three dimensional space around it, but it still helps with understanding the concept.

For clarification, are you suggesting that space has a finite end? Given my previous example of a space vehicle that could actually travel beyond our technological scope, we woud reach some end?

I'd say space has limited volume and mass (it is not infinite, though it is expanding), but as for a space vehicle reaching an end, it depends on what you mean by an "end." I don't think there is a barrier that you would reach beyond which you cannot cross, like a car going down an alley and reaching a dead-end wall, or like being inside a box and going from the center to one of the sides and having to stop there even though there is an "outside" to the box beyond the wall you've just encountered. Taking the balloon illustration again, the ship (ant) could travel forever in any direction in space, as defined by the ballon's surface, without ever encountering an end where the ship could go no further. Due to the curvature of the balloon, the ship could reach its starting point without reversing, but the same may or may not apply with the universe, depending on the actual geometries of the mutliple dimensions of space-time.

OK Scott, you provided a very well defined opinion.

Advancing the original point, I am convinced that there is no circular loop, rather uncharted territory with no end. We have no evidence to the contrary.

So, do you think the volume or mass of space are infinite?

As the son of a very prominent aeronautical engineer, yes.

As the son of a virtually unknown dog groomer, I'd say no

[one...two...tree 2,762]

So, do you think the volume or mass of space are infinite?

As the son of a very prominent aeronautical engineer, yes.

As the son of a virtually unknown dog groomer, I'd say no

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Space n. 1. The infinite extension of the three-dimensional region in which all matter exists. 2. The (finite) expanse in which the solar system, stars, and galaxies exist; the universe.

Does that help?

Edited February 22, 2009 by Mister_Bill

[HAL 9000 96]

Nick was there a 'Ha' in there?

Guys... please share the blunt.

This is why to this particular question, the answer IS 42.

[Peikko 1,575]

I think the universe is god's balloon and the quicker we can work out how to get to the outside surface the better. You know balloons, unpredictable and liable to pop at any time, aside from which he may let go of the string...

Edited February 22, 2009 by Madame Cleo

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

I think the universe is god's balloon and the quicker we can work out how to get to the outside surface the better. You know balloons, unpredictable and liable to pop at any time, aside from which he may let go of the string...

That's weird, 'cuz sometimes I feel like I am outside the balloon looking in!

[HAL 9000 96]

I think the universe is god's balloon and the quicker we can work out how to get to the outside surface the better. You know balloons, unpredictable and liable to pop at any time, aside from which he may let go of the string...

That's weird, 'cuz sometimes I feel like I am outside the balloon looking in!

How often do you feel this way?

[Peikko 1,575]

You're god???

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

You're god???

In a wierd, sorta Hindu way, yes!

I think the universe is god's balloon and the quicker we can work out how to get to the outside surface the better. You know balloons, unpredictable and liable to pop at any time, aside from which he may let go of the string...

That's weird, 'cuz sometimes I feel like I am outside the balloon looking in!

How often do you feel this way?

Not for a while...that was in my hippie days!

[NickD 202]

Quite a twist on The Universe shown on the history channel last night. We can only see the stars and galaxies within a 13.6 billion light year range, the same age as the universe. Speculated that galaxies at greater distances are expanding at a rate faster than the speed of law, so we would never see them.

Can we visit these far away places? Sure we can, just have to find a door in space that leads to a wormhole, walk in on one side here, and be there on the other side. These physicists must have taken that movie Stargate seriously.

After watching that program, was convinced that the history channel should stick with history. But now, whenever I walk through a door, will wonder where I will end up. To date, it just as been the other side of that door.

[Heracles 417]

I like this stuff:

Link

You're a little late, that happened 12 billion years ago, and ha, in a universe that is only 10 billion years old. But they explain that the universe wasn't here 10 billion years ago, therefore the laws of physics as we know them, didn't exist either, so mass could travel faster than the speed of light.

I need an aspirin.

man engineers think a like. I was about to say that.

It is fascinating to think that we are looking at stars at night which may not even be there.

[Heracles 417]

Quite a twist on The Universe shown on the history channel last night. We can only see the stars and galaxies within a 13.6 billion light year range, the same age as the universe. Speculated that galaxies at greater distances are expanding at a rate faster than the speed of law, so we would never see them.

Can we visit these far away places? Sure we can, just have to find a door in space that leads to a wormhole, walk in on one side here, and be there on the other side. These physicists must have taken that movie Stargate seriously.

After watching that program, was convinced that the history channel should stick with history. But now, whenever I walk through a door, will wonder where I will end up. To date, it just as been the other side of that door.

It has been theorized that black holes may be gateways or that we may be able to travel back in time through them.

[NickD 202]

Quite a twist on The Universe shown on the history channel last night. We can only see the stars and galaxies within a 13.6 billion light year range, the same age as the universe. Speculated that galaxies at greater distances are expanding at a rate faster than the speed of law, so we would never see them.

Can we visit these far away places? Sure we can, just have to find a door in space that leads to a wormhole, walk in on one side here, and be there on the other side. These physicists must have taken that movie Stargate seriously.

After watching that program, was convinced that the history channel should stick with history. But now, whenever I walk through a door, will wonder where I will end up. To date, it just as been the other side of that door.

It has been theorized that black holes may be gateways or that we may be able to travel back in time through them.

Hawkins is proposing that the gravity of black holes is so great, intelligence can't even escape them. Are black holes intelligent?