Abortion Question

[eros_EX_Plumber 0]

Intentionally or unintentionally...that is still a personal matter and religious matter (for the religious ones)

And it is no government business of any country in this matter....and they should keep their nose out of it.

With all the things that are wrong in any country....that are more important things to worry about ...

it is immaterial to the visa process in any shape or form.

Edited February 22, 2009 by Eros_the_Plumber

[B&Gie 0]

So it sounds from those of you who have actually finished this step in the process that there are two questions. Have you been pregnant? Have you had an abortion and/or miscarriage? And it sounds like that last one comes as one question which can be answered with simply a yes/no. That implies that you never have to tell the doctor whether it was an abortion or a miscarriage. It also implies that a miscarriage would cause mandatory psyche screening. Am i getting this right?

Has anyone here actually gone through this psyche process for a miscarriage or abortion? I'd LOVE to hear from anyone who's actually done it, though I'm happy with any scrap of reliable info anyone can come up with.

To the OP: I'm guessing that an early drug based abortion is pretty undetectable. How long between the abortion and the medical? I'm guessing that "I don't know" might even be a plausible answer. Having an early miscarriage could be pretty similar to simply missing a period and the lady in question might not even be sure whether she was pregnant or not if she didn't do a test. At least that could be plausible deniability if she says she was never pregnant and they somehow (unlikely) can tell that she was.

[B&Gie 0]

Panel Physician will not be able to determine if she had abortion, they can however determine if an individual had been pregnant.

How the heck do they tell if she has EVER been pregnant?????? Especially if it was a really early termination. How reliable is this and how long does the pregnancy have to go to leave permanent signs? Any doctors here?

[rheanick 42]

Panel Physician will not be able to determine if she had abortion, they can however determine if an individual had been pregnant.

How the heck do they tell if she has EVER been pregnant?????? Especially if it was a really early termination. How reliable is this and how long does the pregnancy have to go to leave permanent signs? Any doctors here?

If the patient says "yes" to the question, "Have you been pregnant before?"

[Conan 0]

So it sounds from those of you who have actually finished this step in the process that there are two questions. Have you been pregnant? Have you had an abortion and/or miscarriage? And it sounds like that last one comes as one question which can be answered with simply a yes/no. That implies that you never have to tell the doctor whether it was an abortion or a miscarriage. It also implies that a miscarriage would cause mandatory psyche screening. Am i getting this right?

Has anyone here actually gone through this psyche process for a miscarriage or abortion? I'd LOVE to hear from anyone who's actually done it, though I'm happy with any scrap of reliable info anyone can come up with.

To the OP: I'm guessing that an early drug based abortion is pretty undetectable. How long between the abortion and the medical? I'm guessing that "I don't know" might even be a plausible answer. Having an early miscarriage could be pretty similar to simply missing a period and the lady in question might not even be sure whether she was pregnant or not if she didn't do a test. At least that could be plausible deniability if she says she was never pregnant and they somehow (unlikely) can tell that she was.

She was 2 months pregnant.

Thank you for your help so far. We are still deciding what to do.

[Conan 0]

Panel Physician will not be able to determine if she had abortion, they can however determine if an individual had been pregnant.

How the heck do they tell if she has EVER been pregnant?????? Especially if it was a really early termination. How reliable is this and how long does the pregnancy have to go to leave permanent signs? Any doctors here?

If the patient says "yes" to the question, "Have you been pregnant before?"

She is going to say "yes" to be being pregnant before (they can tell right?) but I might have her say it was a miscarriage. Do they do a psych exam for that?

[sj5 4]

Doctor would ask if she gave birth already or if she has a child. Answer only what doctor ask and dont add anything, most of the answer is simply yes or no. If doctor ask if she had abortion, its your decision to what you will do. and if she answered yes she will have an appointment for psychological evaluation, it could be on same day or different date so I suggest take the medical exam a bit earlier.

They didn't tell me to have psychological evaluation.

[Troy W 0]

Exterminate a baby, then back it up with a lie. Good start to a meaningful relationship.

Not that I agree with abortion but it is absolutely not your place to judge her or him, and you have no idea about the circumstances.

[dzyrhetom 7]

Exterminate a baby, then back it up with a lie. Good start to a meaningful relationship.

Not that I agree with abortion but it is absolutely not your place to judge her or him, and you have no idea about the circumstances.

I agreed with you ((I dont either tolerate or agree those thing) BUT.....I believe We ( as a sinner also) dont have the right to judge other people lives specially if we dont know who really they are ( whatever the reason why she did it)! I believe all of us really commit mistakes and probably made wrong decisions in life which we regreted it sometimes , Yeah WE ARE NOT PERFECT!!! I think the only thing we can do is to help and enlighten their minds..Thats the No. 1 reason why we are here, FOR US TO BE GUIDED in the right path....

Guys ( OP and fiancee),do the right thing which you think will make u both successful in all endeavors ( without hurting any others feelings)..Goodluck and God Bless to all of us here on our visa journey..

Dzyrhetom

[sara..... 371]

Exterminate a baby, then back it up with a lie. Good start to a meaningful relationship.

Not that I agree with abortion but it is absolutely not your place to judge her or him, and you have no idea about the circumstances.

I agreed with you ((I dont either tolerate or agree those thing) BUT.....I believe We ( as a sinner also) dont have the right to judge other people lives specially if we dont know who really they are ( whatever the reason why she did it)! I believe all of us really commit mistakes and probably made wrong decisions in life which we regreted it sometimes , Yeah WE ARE NOT PERFECT!!! I think the only thing we can do is to help and enlighten their minds..Thats the No. 1 reason why we are here, FOR US TO BE GUIDED in the right path....

Guys ( OP and fiancee),do the right thing which you think will make u both successful in all endeavors ( without hurting any others feelings)..Goodluck and God Bless to all of us here on our visa journey..

Dzyrhetom

yup that kind of goes along with let the one with out sin be the one to throw the first rock or something like that cuz there is no person in the world with out sin

sara

[vsmtghdy 2]

Panel Physician will not be able to determine if she had abortion, they can however determine if an individual had been pregnant.

How the heck do they tell if she has EVER been pregnant?????? Especially if it was a really early termination. How reliable is this and how long does the pregnancy have to go to leave permanent signs? Any doctors here?

B&Gie, I am a Doctor, maybe not an OB-GYNE but I am an Internal Medicine Specialist. If a patient has been pregnant, 6 weeks post-partum, there are still signs that can tell if a person has been pregnant. Signs can be seen on the breast, cervix and uterus. Uterus will start to go back to normal (involute) usually 6 weeks post-partum. Will this answer suffice?

[jom 4]

One of the signs they will look for previous pregnancy, especially if it was full term is striae ( cellulite like ). I remember during my medical, I befriended a lady who lost like 50 pounds and the doctor didn't believe her when she said she has never been pregnant because of the visible cellulite marks on her belly due to her weight loss. She finally convinced the doctor about it.

Also, they will check your perineum, the space between the ####### and #######, because most women during labor will have an episiotomy ( the doctor will actually make a cut on the perineum ) to aid the delivery especially for first time mothers and the repair, would leave a mark on that area.

I remember during my medical that I was asked to lay on my side and the lady doctor opened up my upper legs to expose my private part sideways . . . after that I asked her why and she told me, it was one way of verifying my statement that I never have a child before. Being a nurse, I understood why she had to look there because my tummy is clear with no signs of striae.

But, in this topic, the OP's fiancee did use cytotec which would only work during the first two to three months of pregnancy ( meaning no stria ) , she was successful in aborting the fetus and if she will say NO, I doubt the doctor will find any signs on her outer body that she was ever pregnant.

Just a thought.

[B&Gie 0]

OK I asked an OBGYN about how they can tell if someone has had an abortion or miscarriage.

If a pelvic exam is done, a doctor will know that some type of procedure was done, as her cervix will look differently, and not like the way a cervix would look if you have never given birth or never had a procedure done. So if a doctor sees the cervix, he/she will know that some type of procedure was done by the way the cervix looks.

So an external exam won't tell anything but an internal exam will tell she had an abortion or miscarriage due to the shape of the cervix? About how many weeks does the pregnancy have to go to make a noticeable change?

This is correct- if she has a pelvic exam and the cervix is looked at, they will notice that something was done. Cervical changes happen at the beginning of pregnancy.

So then the question is whether they just do an external exam only or whether they do a full internal pelvic exam. I seem to remember reading on another post that it is external only. Can anyone confirm that?

Actually I just noticed that jom and vsmtghdy replied while I was typing this. Jom seems to indicate that the exam is external only and a never pregnant answer is pretty safe especially for the OP.

vsmtghdy: My fiance's abortion was closer to 4 months, and it will be probably 8 or 9 months between the abortion and the medical exam. The OP was 2 months and unknown time between. What's your opinion on those situations? If they don't do an internal exam the changes to the cervix and uterus should be undetectable I'd think. I know the breasts get larger but was unaware of any other visible changes. Can a doctor who has never seen them before the pregnancy tell the difference with any degree of reliability?

[felb 0]

just my two cents, doctors can verify if one had given birth but not having been pregnant. as someone mentioned before, doctors make a certain cut in the ####### that identifies giving birth. sometimes, the cervical opening changes form when a woman gives birth. so if a woman had surgical abortion, they do a similar procedure which produces the same mark/scar. however, medical abortion or abortion by medicine during the early stages of pregnancy barely leaves a trace as it would only be like getting her menstrual period again. thus, i doubt a doctor could ever tell she had an abortion if she did the medical abortion.

[couple0426 0]

just my two cents, doctors can verify if one had given birth but not having been pregnant. as someone mentioned before, doctors make a certain cut in the ####### that identifies giving birth. sometimes, the cervical opening changes form when a woman gives birth. so if a woman had surgical abortion, they do a similar procedure which produces the same mark/scar. however, medical abortion or abortion by medicine during the early stages of pregnancy barely leaves a trace as it would only be like getting her menstrual period again. thus, i doubt a doctor could ever tell she had an abortion if she did the medical abortion.

AGREE!.