I am really upset at people marrying on VWP!!!!!!

[aljhel 0]

Someone could easily report them to the ICE officials or someone they p*** off could report them and they could be found for fraud and be permanently banned from entering the U.S.

Hang tight and in there, be patient and it will pay off. You get married on a K-1, marry within 90 days, apply AOS within 2 years, take ur time; you have reasonble good reason for being in the U.S. and the system will support you.

Them, anytime they could be reported....BAM right then and there could be a chance they could never come back! Which do you prefer?

Am I the only person honest who tries not to jump the system?

I was reading the forum about adjustment of status and I found out that many people take advange of the VWP!

I have been several times in the US to visit my boyfriend with the Visa Waiver Program but it never came in my mind to cheat the system getting married and adjusting my status there.

I am suffering now being away from my love but I know this is the right way to do things. I just started my journey and the day I will be again with my love is very far!

As a citizen of a country partecipating at the VWP I am upset for all the people who need a visa to go to the State and us....lucky people...we jump the system. Maybe I should say that I am stupid because I had the opportunity to stay in the US with my love and instead I chose the honest way....

[pushbrk 13,125]

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...p;#entry2667948

(laughing) Here's one for the books..........."you're not breaking any rule if you didnt 'intend' to marry" <wink><wink>

That's a misquote. Intent to marry is not a problem. Intent to immigrate is. The case as described breaks no rules.

So, is China a "yellow country" in your book? Inquiring minds want to know.

[himher 634]

So I am not breaking any rules if I am married and am applying for AOS despite the fact I am only on the 90 day visa waiver am I breaking any laws or rules by overstaying my visa if I'm applying for AOS??

Do you mean to imply that someone said this particular case breaks the rules? Was that perchance directed at me? I specifically said no rule was broken. Re-reading the record: "you're not breaking any rule if you didnt 'intend' to marry" <wink><wink>

The wink was an inadvertant twitch only. I'm sorry if you mis-read my 'intent'. My 'intent' was to advise this with a straight face. You mis-read me. I am now highly offended. Just because it "looks" like my intent was one thing doesnt mean it wasn't something else entirely.

Categorization of specific countries has no bearing on the discussion which is exploitation of the visa waiver program to circumvent the immigration process. Go search for a fight to pick on that issue somewhere else.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...p;#entry2667948

(laughing) Here's one for the books..........."you're not breaking any rule if you didnt 'intend' to marry" <wink><wink>

That's a misquote. Intent to marry is not a problem. Intent to immigrate is. The case as described breaks no rules.

So, is China a "yellow country" in your book? Inquiring minds want to know.

[himher 634]

Only the sky over Beijing is yellow. China is a RED country ie communism, Mao, "Little Red Book"...get it? Completely different immigration category for political reasons. Asked and answered? or do you want to uselessly e-parry some more? Thu/Fri is weekend in Saudi and we're off tomorrow for holiday, so I do have some spare time to waste.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...p;#entry2667948

(laughing) Here's one for the books..........."you're not breaking any rule if you didnt 'intend' to marry" <wink><wink>

That's a misquote. Intent to marry is not a problem. Intent to immigrate is. The case as described breaks no rules.

So, is China a "yellow country" in your book? Inquiring minds want to know.

[Ju&Ja 1]

Ok, you should maybe be 100% honest. If lots of people don't choose to get married during a trip with the waiver program it is just because you have some risks. But I know 2 same stories. In september I went in the USCIS building in LA to ask questions. The officer herself said "if you really don't want to leave your man for a long period, you should get married and stay in the US". And the same thing happened to a friend of mine from Norway.

So, if the USCIS itself has no pb with that why not ?

And for the BS about : if you get in the US without thinking of getting married = no fraud

Com'on ! Everybody knows that 97% of the ppl who entered the US and then got married knew it when they crossed the border, and I won't say "boooo it is bad". They just have to say during the AOS interview "when I arrived I didn't know that my bf/gf wanted to propose, it was a surprise."

The only pb is the system, the immigration should while K1 or K3 let the fiancé/spouse get in the US to visit their loved ones. What I mean by that, is that when you begin the process, you should have a document like the advance parole which give you the opportunity to visit your love with no pb at the border.

It is a long process, so why asking ppl who love each other to be apart ?

[EtherealVocalist 0]

I would give this up. This is an old war on VJ lol...... All you are going to do is get the mods with spouses from Canada, Europe, and Australia mad at you and they will eventually cancel your account just from spite. I know this from personal experience. Is it wrong? yes. It pisses me off every time I see the thinly worded suggestion 'be sure you can show you didn't "intend" to get married'.....The long and short of it, the way things are now, it is easier to prove "non-intent to marry at entry" than it is to prove "proof of valid relationship" and legally follow the immigration process in the first place. Anyone who came in as a visitor and just "decided to get married" and stayed here didn't have enough ties to their home country to qualify for a visitor's visa in the first place. Its still the good ole USA. "White" countries enjoy a higher level of immigration benefits than "brown" countries. Until that changes and everyone is "equal under the law" (that's another laugh) then this loophole will continue to be exploited. Me? It isn't personal, but I'm all about sending VWP applicants' a$$ right back home to wait through the legal process (since they have "ties to their home countries" haha like jobs, etc) just like the rest of us had to wait. No ties, then they entered illegally to begin with, and they should be banned from entry or have to file waivers pay fines just like people from "brown" countries have to do.

You would give this up? Obviously not...

[ABU ALSHAHIM 0]

Am I the only person honest who tries not to jump the system?

I was reading the forum about adjustment of status and I found out that many people take advange of the VWP!

I have been several times in the US to visit my boyfriend with the Visa Waiver Program but it never came in my mind to cheat the system getting married and adjusting my status there.

I am suffering now being away from my love but I know this is the right way to do things. I just started my journey and the day I will be again with my love is very far!

As a citizen of a country partecipating at the VWP I am upset for all the people who need a visa to go to the State and us....lucky people...we jump the system. Maybe I should say that I am stupid because I had the opportunity to stay in the US with my love and instead I chose the honest way....

[Cuchita 1]

Plus I must add that people who came in here with a tourist visa or VWP and got married have to wait more time to become a Permanent resident, they are holding it longer cause of the famous visa fraud going on!. I know some couples in fact, thats why I say this. So If you chose to do it that way, then you have more peace of mind which is PRICELESS.

[ABU ALSHAHIM 0]

yes u r !!! u should stay with ur babe ,,,,, what do u think this the right way to keep ur ralation hot or @ least warm /// what do u think ????

Am I the only person honest who tries not to jump the system?

I was reading the forum about adjustment of status and I found out that many people take advange of the VWP!

I have been several times in the US to visit my boyfriend with the Visa Waiver Program but it never came in my mind to cheat the system getting married and adjusting my status there.

I am suffering now being away from my love but I know this is the right way to do things. I just started my journey and the day I will be again with my love is very far!

As a citizen of a country partecipating at the VWP I am upset for all the people who need a visa to go to the State and us....lucky people...we jump the system. Maybe I should say that I am stupid because I had the opportunity to stay in the US with my love and instead I chose the honest way....

[EtherealVocalist 0]

Ok, you should maybe be 100% honest. If lots of people don't choose to get married during a trip with the waiver program it is just because you have some risks. But I know 2 same stories. In september I went in the USCIS building in LA to ask questions. The officer herself said "if you really don't want to leave your man for a long period, you should get married and stay in the US". And the same thing happened to a friend of mine from Norway.

So, if the USCIS itself has no pb with that why not ?

And for the BS about : if you get in the US without thinking of getting married = no fraud

Com'on ! Everybody knows that 97% of the ppl who entered the US and then got married knew it when they crossed the border, and I won't say "boooo it is bad". They just have to say during the AOS interview "when I arrived I didn't know that my bf/gf wanted to propose, it was a surprise."

The only pb is the system, the immigration should while K1 or K3 let the fiancé/spouse get in the US to visit their loved ones. What I mean by that, is that when you begin the process, you should have a document like the advance parole which give you the opportunity to visit your love with no pb at the border.

It is a long process, so why asking ppl who love each other to be apart ?

you know, I totally agree with you, my husband when he came here last time, the people at the border were merciless with him. He's German and a student, a really good man. They thought he was coming here to work illegally. He was coming to visit his dad's side of the family for the holidays and me too. They went through his wallet, his phone, read text messages, the officer called me pretending he was a "booking" agent ( we are musicians ) asking me if we could do a gig in December and how much we chared. I told the officer ( booking agent ) that my support musician ( now husband ) is not legal to work here so there would be no gig. That is when they released him, then they told him that "you better get your sh!t straightened out with your work and your girlfirend, cause you will not be allowed to travel on the VWP the next time, you'll need a visa". They released him and they ruined our holiday with so many accusations that he wasn't guilty of! We cried and were so upset at this, and got scared to not be able to see each other for a long time, and we decided to get married.

Then we had to deal with telling his family, the tears and the sadness of not being able to attend on such short notice, what about his computer, beongings? his clothes? his student life? I mean shipping stuff here is expensive and he has to re-arrange his life now and finish school here in a bit... Stress to find work in this economy etc... Marrying on the WVP is not cake lemme tell you! Even though we filed all the papers we are goin through stress. He's home, instead of being in school and being productive, he cant work so he does little chores around the house to keep busy... I mean its not an easy way out in my opinion... A different set of challenges!

[Kez/JWolf 6]

Ok, you should maybe be 100% honest. If lots of people don't choose to get married during a trip with the waiver program it is just because you have some risks. But I know 2 same stories. In september I went in the USCIS building in LA to ask questions. The officer herself said "if you really don't want to leave your man for a long period, you should get married and stay in the US". And the same thing happened to a friend of mine from Norway.

So, if the USCIS itself has no pb with that why not ?

And for the BS about : if you get in the US without thinking of getting married = no fraud

Com'on ! Everybody knows that 97% of the ppl who entered the US and then got married knew it when they crossed the border, and I won't say "boooo it is bad". They just have to say during the AOS interview "when I arrived I didn't know that my bf/gf wanted to propose, it was a surprise."

The only pb is the system, the immigration should while K1 or K3 let the fiancé/spouse get in the US to visit their loved ones. What I mean by that, is that when you begin the process, you should have a document like the advance parole which give you the opportunity to visit your love with no pb at the border.

It is a long process, so why asking ppl who love each other to be apart ?

There are 1000's of people who enter the US and dont even know their future husband, so they clearly did not have intent to remain when they entered. The immigration law allows for a person to change their mind after entery for whatever reason and file for AOS. The law does not say that you must not have known your spouse before entry nor does it say that you cant allready be married. It does say that if after you entered the US you change your mind and want to remain with your immidiate relative (wife, husband, mother, father and childeren under 18) then you may do so.

Now while there will always be people who abuse the system and plan to enter the US on a VWP/tourist visa and then remain, that does not mean the those who did not plan are also commiting visa fraud. Filing for AOS from a VWP/Tourist Visa is a legal option that is open to anyone who was inspected at entry and did not entry with the express reason to get around applying for a K1,K3, or CR1,IR1 or IR5.

There is visa fraud committed under every visa type there is. But to accuse everyone who did AOS from a VWP/Tourist Visa of committing fraud is just wrong.

[sara..... 371]

i used to be one of the hardest among the people on vj about this issue but i will tell u straight up after what perviz and i have been thru with just trying to get a simple noa2 i have absolutely nothing to say against it or anything else that has to do with families being reunited as fast as possible.

sara

[luv2uallday 1]

Am I the only person honest who tries not to jump the system?

I was reading the forum about adjustment of status and I found out that many people take advange of the VWP!

I have been several times in the US to visit my boyfriend with the Visa Waiver Program but it never came in my mind to cheat the system getting married and adjusting my status there.

I am suffering now being away from my love but I know this is the right way to do things. I just started my journey and the day I will be again with my love is very far!

As a citizen of a country partecipating at the VWP I am upset for all the people who need a visa to go to the State and us....lucky people...we jump the system. Maybe I should say that I am stupid because I had the opportunity to stay in the US with my love and instead I chose the honest way....

I understand your frustrations. You have the character and moral standing to do the right thing. But not everyone here is blessed with those qualities.

Murphy's Law Given a chance people will abuse every priviledge given to them till it is taken away from everyone. That sums up how people do to the immigration system. Sad but true sad but true.

[himher 634]

Here come the europeans lol. Yeah, I would. What's the point? The loophole is there, people exploit it. That's fact. I only feel personally that the loophole shouldnt be there, that the same process should be followed by everyone no matter what country they are from. That means that a B visa, either by waiver or issued at a consulate abroad, should be used for just that - a visit, a return home, and re-entry after background checks are done, medical checks are done, and the correct visa type has been issued. Nothing personal, it's an equal protection / equal treatment thing. I have no sympathy for someone who takes advantage of the VWP and uses it to immigrate just because they are "scared of the immigration process" and an immigration officer told them "you have to have a visa next time you enter". Especially in light of the fact that by the way and as it turns out, that immigration officer was dead-on right about you after all. Last comment on this, don't bother to reply.

I would give this up. This is an old war on VJ lol...... All you are going to do is get the mods with spouses from Canada, Europe, and Australia mad at you and they will eventually cancel your account just from spite. I know this from personal experience. Is it wrong? yes. It pisses me off every time I see the thinly worded suggestion 'be sure you can show you didn't "intend" to get married'.....The long and short of it, the way things are now, it is easier to prove "non-intent to marry at entry" than it is to prove "proof of valid relationship" and legally follow the immigration process in the first place. Anyone who came in as a visitor and just "decided to get married" and stayed here didn't have enough ties to their home country to qualify for a visitor's visa in the first place. Its still the good ole USA. "White" countries enjoy a higher level of immigration benefits than "brown" countries. Until that changes and everyone is "equal under the law" (that's another laugh) then this loophole will continue to be exploited. Me? It isn't personal, but I'm all about sending VWP applicants' a$$ right back home to wait through the legal process (since they have "ties to their home countries" haha like jobs, etc) just like the rest of us had to wait. No ties, then they entered illegally to begin with, and they should be banned from entry or have to file waivers pay fines just like people from "brown" countries have to do.

You would give this up? Obviously not...

[pushbrk 13,125]

So I am not breaking any rules if I am married and am applying for AOS despite the fact I am only on the 90 day visa waiver am I breaking any laws or rules by overstaying my visa if I'm applying for AOS??

Maybe and maybe not. It depends on the circumstances. The answer is more complicated than that, and whether anybody likes it or not, the intent upon the most recent entry matters.

Bad...

1. Arrived 80 days ago on the VWP.

2. We heard about the (nonsense) 60 day rule so we waited 70 days to marry and will now file AOS.

3. The above was our plan from before I left home but we intend to lie about that

OK...

1. Arrived 80 days ago on the VWP for a 30 day vacation.

2. During the first week I met John

3. Soon we fell in love. Because we don't want to be apart, I sent in my letter of resignation from my job, asked my best friend to pack up my apartment and we go married.

4. Now we're filing AOS.

Also OK...

1. Arrived 80 days ago on the VWP to meet my online love for the first time. I hoped things would work out evenually didn't know if they would.

2. I would never have imagined making a decision about marriage on my first visit but after two weeks together, we were so in love we just decided to marry and and for me to stay.

3. I live with my parents, so they packed up my things and shipped them to me.

4. I called the restaurant where I worked as a waitress and told them I wasn't coming back. They are happy for me.

5. Now we're fiing AOS so I can become a permanent resident.

All three of the above scenarios include entry on the VWP and a subsequent marriage and AOS filing. There's more to the rules than those two facts.

I'm as disgusted with those who cheat the system like in scenario one, as anybody is. However, I realize there are legitimate cases for entering on the VWP and staying too. I'm not bitter about the fact my wife and I had no such option. It just is what it is. The VWP exists for good reasons and is withheld from most countries for equally good reasons. We may disagree about the rules or about liking them or what we think they "should be" but they ARE what the ARE. Please understand and apply them before you condemn those who were wise enough to understand and apply them to their own circumstances.