Is abuse ever OK in a relationship?

[Aymsgirl 0]

My heart pours out to those who have been abused. For this I am so sorry that it happened to you. I've never been physically abused by a spouse. My ex husband was more of an emotional abuser and controlling. He seemed to have a quiet way of doing this though. It's so hard to sit here and explain but he did it quietly. Like the mind and head games he played with me. The cheating, the lying stuff like that I can think of.

I think it can be cultural at times but I also think its up to the human. It is really amazing once somebody opens up a can of worms how many people this has affected. I have a handful of friends that have admitted they have lived through mental or physical abuse. It's so hard, you want to say leave but then you have no idea until you have walked in their shoes what you would do. I put up with my situation for almost 12 years and still after our divorce he tries to still control me but I have grown a big backbone now and will not allow it. He tries to do this with my kids...it's not going to happen.

[mee mee D 0]

Can abuse ever mean the abuser loves the abused?

Can abuse be cultural? And if so is that an excuse or a reason?

Can abuse ever be put behind in a relationship after one time? How about after the 20th time?

Lastly if you know someone who was ever abused, can you share how this person was able to free him or herself from the situation?

Personally I was never hit by my parents, so I'll be damned at 30 years old , if I'd take a beating from a man. Thank God I have never been in that situation, but I like to believe that I would not tolerate one second of abuse. I remember the priest asking during our pre-marital counseling, if there was ever a reason for divorce? And I replied, yes abuse and cheating. So, he asked again, to which I gave the same reply. Then he paused and by this time my now former husband was pinching me on the leg and I said, I know what you mean, but that is just what I believe. Needless to say, as we were getting into the car, I looked up at his window and he was giving me a dirty look .

Caveat: I do not know anyone's personal situation on VJ. This is not about any particular member on VJ. This is more of a "general" type thread.

Hi well i can say this: no one should go threw any abuse in any way as a child i was an when i married i was abused an thank god that is over an i have a new life with a wonderful man an he would never do any thing to hurt me , never hit any one but dont let no one hit you or treat you like you are nothing , its a sickness no man is worth haveing if they can not be kind to you an treat you the way all women should be treated will lots of love an never like they are to be used or beaten , its very hard to take the first step to get out of the abuse they beat you down so bad an make you feel as no one could love you . so please if this is happend to you leave there is lots of help out there now for abused women or men best of luck , mee mee D

[Jasman0717 9]

I see no justification for abuse

[lazylivn 0]

Can abuse ever mean the abuser loves the abused?

Can abuse be cultural? And if so is that an excuse or a reason?

Can abuse ever be put behind in a relationship after one time? How about after the 20th time?

Lastly if you know someone who was ever abused, can you share how this person was able to free him or herself from the situation?

Here's my take on this.

Can abuse ever mean the abuser loves the abused? Yes the abuser can love the abused. When you punish your children (by taking away privileges, grounding, and dare I say spanking) does it mean you don't love your children? In some cultures women are seen as being less than a man, having half minds and it's the man's responsibility to show his woman how to behave or teach her the correct way to be in life. If she behaves culturally unacceptable not only is she thought badly of, but her husband is thought of badly.

Does the abuser always love the abused?.......NO, just like anything else each person is different. Some abusers have anger management problems, some have control issues, some simply don't think of their woman or wife as a real person..she is just something that belongs to him, something he owns. These men are in every culture, every income bracket, every religion, they come in all ages.

Can abuse be cultural? Yes it can. What we see as abuse another culture may see as discipline. I think it's a case of nature vs nurture.

You can take a person here, raised in our culture...Hitting a woman is bad and even if he has problems controlling his temper he is pressured by our society to not resort to physical violence. If he does he suffers consequences such as social stigma and/or repercussions from law enforcement.

On the other side you take a person who is raised to believe that hitting your woman is a form of discipline and you do it to teach her to be a better person or as punishment when she misbehaves. Teach her lessons on how to be in life. This person even though he doesn't normally have those tendencies can and sometimes do resort to physical "discipline". It is viewed as his responsibility and if his woman acts outside of what's expected of her he would be ridiculed/shamed for not being a man and teaching his woman the correct way to behave. Same thinking that we have when we see children running amok at the store and the parents appearing to do nothing to reign them in. Do you think nicely of the parents?

Can abuse ever be put behind in a relationship after one time? How about after the 20th time? Yes I believe it can. Both parties have to agree on what constitutes abuse. I don't think it's easy....change is never easy. First you have to identify what triggers the abuse (cultural, anger management problems, etc..) then work to resolve those issues. Then together you need to form strategies to change the behavior (the abusers responses to triggers) I believe that depending on the severity of the case and the length of time it's gone on, a mediator may need to be used (therapist, pastor, support group) in order to accomplish change. The situation isn't going to change just because the abuser says sorry and it will never happen again. Plans need to be made, have strategies to utilize in order to redirect abusive behavior into a positive interaction. Practice recognizing triggers, have a safe place for both parties to withdraw to, build a support group around yourselves.

Lastly if you know someone who was ever abused, can you share how this person was able to free him or herself from the situation? It's not easy for someone to get away from an abusive relationship. You don't go from absolutely no problems straight to being black and blue from head to toe. If that was the case, most abusive relationships would end quickly instead of dragging on for years and years. It starts with alienation from certain friends, then that grows to include all friends, then quickly encompasses family. It starts with the abuser gaining control of you, little by little. Before you know it, you find yourself in a bad situation with no support and no resources. You end up with feelings of low self worth, maybe depressed, and shame for letting yourself get into this situation. And you become compliant with the abuse because at some point you begin to fear the unknown, the fear of change even if it's for the better.

If you suspect or know someone is being abused and you want to help them?

1.) Be their friend- This person is going to try to push you away or the abuser will try to alienate you from them. I'm not saying force yourself on them, but let them know your available. Even if not on a regular basis, make an attempt to stay in touch with the person being abused, even if it's as simple as a "hello, how ya doing?" once in awhile. One day you may be their lifeline.

2.) Don't be judgmental- Fear of the abuser isn't the only reason the abused has trouble getting out of an abusive relationship...shame and fear of being ridiculed for letting the abuse continue can be a big deterrent to a person from seeking help. I understand that you feel that you would never allow yourself to fall under abusive circumstances, but the truth is you never know how your going to react to a situation until you've experienced it. By taking the stance that you would never allow that to happen to you, you are building a wall between you and the person your wanting to help because that can be construed as a statement that you believe your somewhat better than them, stronger than them, smarter than them. It doesn't encourage them to come to you and admit or confide that they are being abused.

3.) Be supportive and don't place conditions on your support- Most abused people will return to the abusive relationship at least initially and most likely many different times before they feel confident enough to leave for good. If you make ultimatums you are helping the abuser alienate you from the person being abused. It's okay to tell the abused person you don't agree with their choices but the way it's phrased can make all the difference. It's much better to say, I don't agree with your decision or I don't understand where your coming from on this issue but I'm here to help you no matter what you decide. It really doesn't help to say your mad at them for going back, or they are stupid for going back, or if you go back this is the last time I will help you, because when they do finally decide they need help, I guarantee you that you will be the last person they ask.

I was abused off and on as a child, by parents and various step parents that came and went from my life. As an adult I've been in mentally and physically abusive relationships. In one relationship I was up and gone in a flash, first sign of abuse and I was out of there...Later, In another relationship I rationalized it, stayed hoping for better, I feared to admit that I was being abused because I had shame for allowing that to happen to myself, I felt stupid, I felt weak. I had alienated all family and friends, I had no support system and I was unaware of my resources. I was afraid of change, didn't think I could make it on my own.

What made one abusive relationship unacceptable and the other acceptable to me? fear? pride? Truth is, I don't know. Point is I used to be one of those people who said I would NEVER allow myself to be in an abusive situtation again even more so since I had an abusive childhood, and when I found myself there as an adult, I felt so much shame, I felt stupid, I didn't want anyone to know. I was prideful in myself, in my strength, in my self confidence and that helped my abuser to lock me in, made it hard for me to ask for help.

That's my two cents.

[allousa 1]

Lazylivin',

I am quite perplexed at how you can equate abuse with how children or disciplined.

The people that I've worked with as well as studies I've participated in, the "abuser" does try to make the "abused" responsible for the abuse by telling them they don't know how to act and that the "abuser" is only trying to help them. Behavior modification by belittling or threats of physical violence IS abuse. I would consider people that disciplined their children in the same manner as abusive.

[sereia 0]

I just have to agree with everything that Allousa has said in her first reply regarding this topic! Abuse is NEVER okay. And I don't believe most abusers can change. I have read studies showing that VERY few abusers change for the better.

And never marry/date someone who comes from a home with abusive parents. Like father, like son the huge majority of the time.

Edited February 19, 2009 by sereia

[JeanneVictoria 55]

Abuse is abuse no matter which way you look at it. One can try to justify, but in the end it's still abuse.

[teenutty 0]

Abuse is never ok.....Doesn't matter what culture....I don't think abusers truely love their spouses.

[Ban Hammer 13,345]

Abuse is never ok.....Doesn't matter what culture....I don't think abusers truely love their spouses.

there you are

[prince+angel 3]

NOPE ...

Can abuse ever mean the abuser loves the abused?

Can abuse be cultural? And if so is that an excuse or a reason?

Can abuse ever be put behind in a relationship after one time? How about after the 20th time?

Lastly if you know someone who was ever abused, can you share how this person was able to free him or herself from the situation?

Personally I was never hit by my parents, so I'll be damned at 30 years old , if I'd take a beating from a man. Thank God I have never been in that situation, but I like to believe that I would not tolerate one second of abuse. I remember the priest asking during our pre-marital counseling, if there was ever a reason for divorce? And I replied, yes abuse and cheating. So, he asked again, to which I gave the same reply. Then he paused and by this time my now former husband was pinching me on the leg and I said, I know what you mean, but that is just what I believe. Needless to say, as we were getting into the car, I looked up at his window and he was giving me a dirty look .

Caveat: I do not know anyone's personal situation on VJ. This is not about any particular member on VJ. This is more of a "general" type thread.

[childress_london 3]

Lazylivin',

I am quite perplexed at how you can equate abuse with how children or disciplined.

The people that I've worked with as well as studies I've participated in, the "abuser" does try to make the "abused" responsible for the abuse by telling them they don't know how to act and that the "abuser" is only trying to help them. Behavior modification by belittling or threats of physical violence IS abuse. I would consider people that disciplined their children in the same manner as abusive.

I think what she was trying to point out was that what is considered abuse in one society or culture may not be considered abuse in another. Also, where does one draw the line as to what is acceptable "discipline" for a wife and what is abuse? Of course we all agree that beating, breaking bones, humiliation, etc are all abuse. I think anything that harms a person physically or emotionally can be considered as abuse. But on lower levels there could be a fine line between what one considers abusive and what another considers just being a good wife or husband. In American society, this might be more cut and dried to us. But when you have cross cultural marriages it's not quite so easy to distinguish if your spouse is really being abusive, or is that just the way things are done in his culture and to him he's being a good husband?

For example, my husband could demand that I wear the hijab because otherwise he feels I'm being immodest. If I did this out of respect for his wishes or because I've agreed to submit to his will in the marriage, I don't feel I'm being abused. But my parents and maybe some others, might feel that this is abusive because I am being restricted in a way I wouldn't choose for myself.

I think everyone agrees that abuse is wrong and should not be tolerated. I think the real question is, what constitutes abuse?

[allousa 1]

When you punish your children (by taking away privileges, grounding, and dare I say spanking) does it mean you don't love your children? In some cultures women are seen as being less than a man, having half minds and it's the man's responsibility to show his woman how to behave or teach her the correct way to be in life. If she behaves culturally unacceptable not only is she thought badly of, but her husband is thought of badly.

This is the text that I was specifically referring to. I absolutely don't disagree that a husband can "help" his wife as far as learning customs, but when that "help" becomes humiliating, I think is where it crosses the line into abuse. I have actually known women whose husbands would "ground" them...by locking them up. I have also seen women have "privileges" taken away where they weren't allowed to go to a family dinner because they did something to upset their husband. When an adult feels the need to "punish" another adult because they feel themselves superior...this is the control factor.

Let me also add that it is ALSO in our country and our culture that some men DO think women are less and have half the mind that men do....believe me...it happens more in our own backyard than you know.

I don't think it is acceptable at all for women in any culture or country to be thought of as less than a man. We are all equal, I believe, in the eyes of God and we all deserve the same equal respect...man, woman AND child!

You have no idea how often I think of a nameless woman that is somewhere in this world, hanging her head in shame because a man has made her feel that way...my heart truly aches for these women.

[allousa 1]

For example, my husband could demand that I wear the hijab because otherwise he feels I'm being immodest. If I did this out of respect for his wishes or because I've agreed to submit to his will in the marriage, I don't feel I'm being abused. But my parents and maybe some others, might feel that this is abusive because I am being restricted in a way I wouldn't choose for myself.

I think everyone agrees that abuse is wrong and should not be tolerated. I think the real question is, what constitutes abuse?

I wanted to address this as well. As long as you have no problems with your husband demanding that of you and you are happy and at peace with his actions, I don't consider that abuse. But when a person begins to feel that submission goes against their own will or not being treated fairly, I think a line is crossed.

If I walk out of the house look'in like a hoochie momma and Hicham were to tell me, don't wear that...you look like a hoochie momma, I don't think that is abuse at all. But if he were to yell at me and tell me I had to go back in the house and change because I was embarrasing him, that crosses a line, in my opinion.

Abuse can be very ambiguous at first and that is usually how abusers get their foot in the door, per se. Abuse is about control, point blank, whether it be physical, sexual or emotional. It becomes abuse when the person is seeking gratification for themselves by controlling another person.

Look, I don't mean to be snarky and I apologize if I came off that way. And while I don't know EVERYTHING about abuse nor do I have a degree, I have years and years of watching women go through these types of abusive relationships...some not so violent and others that ended in their death. I'm just very passionate about this issue.

Edited February 19, 2009 by allousa

[tanyakaraman 0]

I have been in an abusive marriage before. I will say that I think it's never ok. Also, at least in my experience, you never get past it...not really. You may stay in the relationship, but the whole dynamic changes immediately once abuse rears its ugly head. It may be months or years between incidents, and the abuser may apologize, cry, and swear to change, but things are never really "normal" again. Once that line has been crossed, it's all too easy for the abuser to cross it again and again...and to a greater and greater extent. Also, abuse takes many forms....physical, verbal, emotional, financial, etc. I'd define it generally as using any hateful tactic to belittle or control or intimidate another person. No form of that is ok. Divorcing that man was the best gift I ever gave myself!

[Der Bücherwurm 1]

I don't think it is acceptable at all for women in any culture or country to be thought of as less than a man. We are all equal and we all deserve the same equal respect...man, woman AND child!

I totally agree with the above. The problem is that the major organized religions (cults IMO that were invented by men) view women as being less than a man. Religion always has been and always will be the ultimate tool of oppression against practitioners of the 'religion' and a weapon used against those that believe something else. Sadly, it seems much of the world has yet to emerge from the Dark Ages and is hellbent on dragging the rest of the world back to a time when women were nothing but property. It really makes me miss progressive, non-religious, ultra-feminist Scandinavia.