Is abuse ever OK in a relationship?

[JODO 2]

Can abuse ever mean the abuser loves the abused?

Can abuse be cultural? And if so is that an excuse or a reason?

Can abuse ever be put behind in a relationship after one time? How about after the 20th time?

Lastly if you know someone who was ever abused, can you share how this person was able to free him or herself from the situation?

Personally I was never hit by my parents, so I'll be damned at 30 years old , if I'd take a beating from a man. Thank God I have never been in that situation, but I like to believe that I would not tolerate one second of abuse. I remember the priest asking during our pre-marital counseling, if there was ever a reason for divorce? And I replied, yes abuse and cheating. So, he asked again, to which I gave the same reply. Then he paused and by this time my now former husband was pinching me on the leg and I said, I know what you mean, but that is just what I believe. Needless to say, as we were getting into the car, I looked up at his window and he was giving me a dirty look .

Caveat: I do not know anyone's personal situation on VJ. This is not about any particular member on VJ. This is more of a "general" type thread.

[Nagishkaw 510]

Yes.

Yes. No.

Matthew 18: 21 and 22.

Good question.

[raymaga 25]

I could not tolerate abuse in any way, shape or form. I have personally never been abused by a man, but if my current husband ever hit me for ANY reason, I would certainly file charges against him and I would then immediately leave him.

I have way too much respect for myself to allow any man to belittle, control, or abuse me.

My husband and I would also have a hard time watching our daughters live in abusive relationships.

[allousa 1]

Jodo

I have several years of experience dealing with abusive relationships as I have volunteered extensively for a large organization in our city that deals with rape and domestic violence.

Abuse is NEVER, NEVER about love. It is really about control. I do believe that abusers have such low self esteem (that they will not admit) that they feel the need to control, belittle and abuse those around them to make them feel stronger.

Abuse does not know race or society level. I've seen it happen at all levels of society. Now, I will say that I think how a "society" deals with the subject of abuse can be cultural. Obviously, the less educated do not have the resources to help themselves. Not so long ago, abuse was such a "sweep under the carpet and don't talk about it" in this country. In my opinion, victims of rape still suffer terrible stigmas and difficulty dealing with their situations with their families and peers.

Now when it comes to a group like the Taliban and I'm not quite sure if I would call them a cultural group...kind of about that one, I do feel like they advocate an atmosphere of abuse. But still, I hold an individual completely responsible for actions of abuse. A person MAKES a choice to treat another human being that way.

From my experience, abuse does not stop after ONE time. Typically the cycle starts with them being overly controlling and then apologizing for the behavior and giving gifts and making promises that it doesn't happen again. But most of the time, it does happen again. The abuser when then start to blame their victim for causing them to lose their temper and continue to belittle and alienate them from friends and family. Usually be this time the abuse starts to become physical and almost always will continue to get more and more violent.

The jury is still out with me on whether an abuser can be rehabilitated. I personally don't believe that sexual abusers are rehabilitated. These people have spent a LIFETIME with these behaviors, that I think start when they are very young. Without EXTENSIVE, LONG TERM therapy and rehabilitation AWAY from their victim, maybe, just maybe they can change. But I personally don't see that happen too often.

I have known some women that do get out of these relationships because they were somewhat strong to begin with. Many times I have had people ask "Why don't these women just get up and leave?". It's not always so simple. Some are afraid for their lives and have real cause to be. Some are so isolated that they have no support system to guide their way out nor do they have the resources to support themselves when they do.

The women that I have seen survive have made the choice to leave and NEVER go back. Some have had some success with the law helping them out. Big cities usually have the resources to help...sadly right now, these have been the first public assistance funds cut. I think they are terribly vital to a community.

I think it is CRUCIAL and I mean CRUCIAL to set boundaries up front in a relationship. I have said this many times here. I do believe this cuts an abuser off at the knees as they tend to go towards victims that are weak and that they can manipulate. The majority of abusers are men...but men can also be victims as well. Just wanted to make sure I point that out.

PLEASE PM if you have any questions, concerns or need more information or if I can help in any way.

[JODO 2]

Yes.

Yes. No.

Matthew 18: 21 and 22.

Good question.

Hey, I looked up those Bible verses and I'm just not getting it. I did note that Matt. 22 : Says to love thy neighbor as thyself, so are we talking forgiveness here? So if said abuser has abused someone repeatedly and not shown one iota of remorse, why should his victim be so forgiving?

[ya falaha! 0]

Hmm that's a tough call on whether or not an abuser loves the abused. I mean I suppose they can *think* they love the person but can you really, truly love someone you physically or emotionally harm?

I'm going to say that no, abuse isn't cultural per se. I suppose certain cultures are more accepting of abuse but that doesn't make it okay.

I believe that if you do something once you'll most likely repeat a behavior especially if you "get away with it". As far as abuse goes I wouldn't take chances that it's a one time deal.

I was emotionally abused as a child by a parent. It has affected the way I feel about myself to this day.

[allousa 1]

I want to address abuse when it comes to MENA relationships. Not having been to every MENA country, I can not say with surety how abuse is dealt with in those countries. I know that what I have seen as far as my husband, his family and our discussions about the topic, I honestly don't believe abuse is advocated by Islam.

I think you can look at EVERY country and examine their lower classes and you will probably see more abuse occur, because again, resources are not there to be advocates for victims and help with prevention. With much of MENA being third world countries, this may lend to the myth that MENA has more abuse than other cultures. I would venture to say if you look at other third world countries such as India, Central and South American countries, you would probably see the same statistics.

However, the statistics for the U.S., I think are absolutely appalling and we are a developed nation...or are supposed to be. I am quite defensive when people accuse MENA of being more "abuse" friendly. It's a global problem!

Don't EVEN get me started on how I feel about human trafficking!

[Nothing1234 2]

I want to address abuse when it comes to MENA relationships. Not having been to every MENA country, I can not say with surety how abuse is dealt with in those countries. I know that what I have seen as far as my husband, his family and our discussions about the topic, I honestly don't believe abuse is advocated by Islam.

I think you can look at EVERY country and examine their lower classes and you will probably see more abuse occur, because again, resources are not there to be advocates for victims and help with prevention. With much of MENA being third world countries, this may lend to the myth that MENA has more abuse than other cultures. I would venture to say if you look at other third world countries such as India, Central and South American countries, you would probably see the same statistics.

However, the statistics for the U.S., I think are absolutely appalling and we are a developed nation...or are supposed to be. I am quite defensive when people accuse MENA of being more "abuse" friendly. It's a global problem!

Don't EVEN get me started on how I feel about human trafficking!

I think this thread might be best in OT as it is a global problem. There are probably many other VJ members that might have comments/experiences to share.

[allousa 1]

Hmm that's a tough call on whether or not an abuser loves the abused. I mean I suppose they can *think* they love the person but can you really, truly love someone you physically or emotionally harm?

I'm going to say that no, abuse isn't cultural per se. I suppose certain cultures are more accepting of abuse but that doesn't make it okay.

I believe that if you do something once you'll most likely repeat a behavior especially if you "get away with it". As far as abuse goes I wouldn't take chances that it's a one time deal.

I was emotionally abused as a child by a parent. It has affected the way I feel about myself to this day.

Sister friend...I feel ya! I hope you know what an AWESOME person I think you are....even if you don't have enough movies in your queue!

[Nagishkaw 510]

Yes.

Yes. No.

Matthew 18: 21 and 22.

Good question.

Hey, I looked up those Bible verses and I'm just not getting it. I did note that Matt. 22 : Says to love thy neighbor as thyself, so are we talking forgiveness here? So if said abuser has abused someone repeatedly and not shown one iota of remorse, why should his victim be so forgiving?

Because....well, I can preach a sermon to you later on this in private.

[Kez/JWolf 6]

No man or woman has the right to abuse another person, mentally or physically. Abuse it not a cultural thing it is a control thing and it should never be tolerated in any way.

Anyone in that situation should get out and get help to keep themselves safe.

[Nothing1234 2]

No man or woman has the right to abuse another person, mentally or physically. Abuse it not a cultural thing it is a control thing and it should never be tolerated in any way.

Anyone in that situation should get out and get help to keep themselves safe.

[ya falaha! 0]

The feeling is mutual.

I'll work on the queue..hehehehe.

Hmm that's a tough call on whether or not an abuser loves the abused. I mean I suppose they can *think* they love the person but can you really, truly love someone you physically or emotionally harm?

I'm going to say that no, abuse isn't cultural per se. I suppose certain cultures are more accepting of abuse but that doesn't make it okay.

I believe that if you do something once you'll most likely repeat a behavior especially if you "get away with it". As far as abuse goes I wouldn't take chances that it's a one time deal.

I was emotionally abused as a child by a parent. It has affected the way I feel about myself to this day.

Sister friend...I feel ya! I hope you know what an AWESOME person I think you are....even if you don't have enough movies in your queue!

[Sandrila 1]

I dont believe ANYONE can say for sure what they would do (i.e. stay or go, forgive or not forgive) if in fact they were being abused.

Whether it is right or wrong, it happens more often than is reported and it may take years before #1 you either see the signs from your loved one or #2 you decide it is time for you to get out. It is not so black and white, I think.

If it is typical of an abuser to have no self esteem, than that means they dont love themself and not loving yourself, how could you possibly love another. I think it is unfortunate that women fall for men who become abusive because when you are in the courting stage you dont sit down and usually say "hey, um, if you ever hit me I am going to leave you" I mean the SO should know what the limits are..OF COURSE NO ONE WANTS TO BE ABUSED! But you dont go into a new, loving relationship anticipating that person is going to abuse you or have to warn them about doing so.

People show their good face first and let's face it , it can take years, even after a long marriage, to finally see the "REAL" other person.

I would say one thing, in America we are really lucky to have the law on our side for this, which for the most part is not the case in most Middle Eastern countries.

I dont think it is acceptable at all for a man to put his hands on a woman for any reason.

I dont think that anyone controlling the other is healthy and both spouses' have the right to be respected and treated with love.

We all have stress and disagreements and add into it the fact that there are diverse cultural and religious differences and treatment of women, it is possible for there to be some grey areas. It is truly hard to assess the person you marry from over the internet and intermitten trips overseas.

I know control and abuse are individual traits that are most definitely passed on from generation to generation.

One should not expect or accept it but from alot of the research and experiences I have discovered, some of these characteristics are

striking similiar amongst the men from the same countries/cultures where women dont have the same rights as we do and abuse is just something that is tolerated and kept in the dark.

I did not say for all.

[rclouse 0]

Don't EVEN get me started on how I feel about human trafficking!

So.... it's bad?