Clinton Says Don't Blame Him for the Economic Crisis

[mRx 16]

I wonder when the media is finally going to get it. This, and past crises were not caused by greed or deregulation.

How is greed quantified anyway? All decisions made on the market are voluntary, not forced. Nobody had a gun to anyone's head forcing them to invest in certain prospects or make certain loans. So what is greed? It's a pitiful and petty way to point the finger at someone when you have no legal justification to, as they engaged in voluntary transactions.

The culprits for this crisis lead all the way back to The New Deal. Regulation forced banks to lend, and undermined the free market mechanism of debtor risk assessment, all so "home ownership" could be included in the American Dream. Now we are obviously paying the price for those decisions.

[Dan J 277]

I wonder when the media is finally going to get it. This, and past crises were not caused by greed or deregulation.

How is greed quantified anyway? All decisions made on the market are voluntary, not forced. Nobody had a gun to anyone's head forcing them to invest in certain prospects or make certain loans. So what is greed? It's a pitiful and petty way to point the finger at someone when you have no legal justification to, as they engaged in voluntary transactions.

The culprits for this crisis lead all the way back to The New Deal. Regulation forced banks to lend, and undermined the free market mechanism of debtor risk assessment, all so "home ownership" could be included in the American Dream. Now we are obviously paying the price for those decisions.

A market can only self regulate only when every actor has knowledge of every other actor and factors influencing the market. This can work in a small scale. If someone is trying to game the system for their own benefit, they can simply be shut out.

But it all falls apart on a large scale. Both due to the volume of information of a large scale market, and due to the deception of the actors trying to gain an advantage in the market.

What is the motivation to deceive in a market? Greed.

[mRx 16]

I wonder when the media is finally going to get it. This, and past crises were not caused by greed or deregulation.

How is greed quantified anyway? All decisions made on the market are voluntary, not forced. Nobody had a gun to anyone's head forcing them to invest in certain prospects or make certain loans. So what is greed? It's a pitiful and petty way to point the finger at someone when you have no legal justification to, as they engaged in voluntary transactions.

The culprits for this crisis lead all the way back to The New Deal. Regulation forced banks to lend, and undermined the free market mechanism of debtor risk assessment, all so "home ownership" could be included in the American Dream. Now we are obviously paying the price for those decisions.

A market can only self regulate only when every actor has knowledge of every other actor and factors influencing the market. This can work in a small scale. If someone is trying to game the system for their own benefit, they can simply be shut out.

But it all falls apart on a large scale. Both due to the volume of information of a large scale market, and due to the deception of the actors trying to gain an advantage in the market.

What is the motivation to deceive in a market? Greed.

A large scale economy is just made up of many smaller interwined markets. Basic economic axioms occur regardless if it's the hypothetical Robinson Crusoe economy or the complex American economy. Size causes no detriment to this.

Trying to benefit or better oneself is the goal of everyone in an economy. When you buy a TV or a loaf of bread, are you not trying to better yourself? Or is that just another form of greed? Everyone tries to "game" the system, whether it's trying to obtain the highest price for what you're selling, or the lowest price for what you're buying. My point is, these acts are not acts of fraudulent deception, nor are they acts of greed. They are the acts that make the economy what it is. There is no drive nor motivation to labor, invent, or produce at a loss to oneself in order to benefit a stranger. Bettering oneself is the goal of everyone in the economy.

[Peikko 1,575]

I wonder when the media is finally going to get it. This, and past crises were not caused by greed or deregulation.

How is greed quantified anyway? All decisions made on the market are voluntary, not forced. Nobody had a gun to anyone's head forcing them to invest in certain prospects or make certain loans. So what is greed? It's a pitiful and petty way to point the finger at someone when you have no legal justification to, as they engaged in voluntary transactions.

The culprits for this crisis lead all the way back to The New Deal. Regulation forced banks to lend, and undermined the free market mechanism of debtor risk assessment, all so "home ownership" could be included in the American Dream. Now we are obviously paying the price for those decisions.

A market can only self regulate only when every actor has knowledge of every other actor and factors influencing the market. This can work in a small scale. If someone is trying to game the system for their own benefit, they can simply be shut out.

But it all falls apart on a large scale. Both due to the volume of information of a large scale market, and due to the deception of the actors trying to gain an advantage in the market.

What is the motivation to deceive in a market? Greed.

A large scale economy is just made up of many smaller interwined markets. Basic economic axioms occur regardless if it's the hypothetical Robinson Crusoe economy or the complex American economy. Size causes no detriment to this.

Trying to benefit or better oneself is the goal of everyone in an economy. When you buy a TV or a loaf of bread, are you not trying to better yourself? Or is that just another form of greed? Everyone tries to "game" the system, whether it's trying to obtain the highest price for what you're selling, or the lowest price for what you're buying. My point is, these acts are not acts of fraudulent deception, nor are they acts of greed. They are the acts that make the economy what it is. There is no drive nor motivation to labor, invent, or produce at a loss to oneself in order to benefit a stranger. Bettering oneself is the goal of everyone in the economy.

They often are though even with regulation. Peanut butter anyone?

Most of the time, most of the people are not in a position to know if what they buy is ok to buy. They rely on regulation to ensure that it is.

[Dan J 277]

I wonder when the media is finally going to get it. This, and past crises were not caused by greed or deregulation.

How is greed quantified anyway? All decisions made on the market are voluntary, not forced. Nobody had a gun to anyone's head forcing them to invest in certain prospects or make certain loans. So what is greed? It's a pitiful and petty way to point the finger at someone when you have no legal justification to, as they engaged in voluntary transactions.

The culprits for this crisis lead all the way back to The New Deal. Regulation forced banks to lend, and undermined the free market mechanism of debtor risk assessment, all so "home ownership" could be included in the American Dream. Now we are obviously paying the price for those decisions.

A market can only self regulate only when every actor has knowledge of every other actor and factors influencing the market. This can work in a small scale. If someone is trying to game the system for their own benefit, they can simply be shut out.

But it all falls apart on a large scale. Both due to the volume of information of a large scale market, and due to the deception of the actors trying to gain an advantage in the market.

What is the motivation to deceive in a market? Greed.

A large scale economy is just made up of many smaller interwined markets. Basic economic axioms occur regardless if it's the hypothetical Robinson Crusoe economy or the complex American economy. Size causes no detriment to this.

Trying to benefit or better oneself is the goal of everyone in an economy. When you buy a TV or a loaf of bread, are you not trying to better yourself? Or is that just another form of greed? Everyone tries to "game" the system, whether it's trying to obtain the highest price for what you're selling, or the lowest price for what you're buying. My point is, these acts are not acts of fraudulent deception, nor are they acts of greed. They are the acts that make the economy what it is. There is no drive nor motivation to labor, invent, or produce at a loss to oneself in order to benefit a stranger. Bettering oneself is the goal of everyone in the economy.

Your still looking at a very simple goods based economy. The market we have now is way way beyond that.

I'm not saying the market is all greed, but there are people using greed to game the market.

Lets take a loaf of bread. Most sellers are selling it for $1 per loaf. A seller enters the market selling a loaf for 50 cents, however his loaf is hollow. But you do not know its hollow until after you have purchased the loaf.

In a small scale market, this seller would be pretty quickly pushed out of the market. The other actors would provide information to each other and no one would buy from him.

Because its a simple goods transaction, even in a large economy he would be eliminated fairly quickly, assuming he doesn't try to force his position with violence or other means.

Now, instead of that loaf of bread, we have a mortgage derivative. You buy it on the market for a fair price with the assumption that the debt backing are prime loans because that is "what you were told".

However, in truth, the derivative is backed by bad sub prime loans. You will never know that, because the seller created a disconnection between the product and the asset backing that product. You are trusting the sellers information, and the seller is being deceptive, to get you to buy bad debt at the price of good debt, and you have no way of knowing.

[mRx 16]

I wonder when the media is finally going to get it. This, and past crises were not caused by greed or deregulation.

How is greed quantified anyway? All decisions made on the market are voluntary, not forced. Nobody had a gun to anyone's head forcing them to invest in certain prospects or make certain loans. So what is greed? It's a pitiful and petty way to point the finger at someone when you have no legal justification to, as they engaged in voluntary transactions.

The culprits for this crisis lead all the way back to The New Deal. Regulation forced banks to lend, and undermined the free market mechanism of debtor risk assessment, all so "home ownership" could be included in the American Dream. Now we are obviously paying the price for those decisions.

A market can only self regulate only when every actor has knowledge of every other actor and factors influencing the market. This can work in a small scale. If someone is trying to game the system for their own benefit, they can simply be shut out.

But it all falls apart on a large scale. Both due to the volume of information of a large scale market, and due to the deception of the actors trying to gain an advantage in the market.

What is the motivation to deceive in a market? Greed.

A large scale economy is just made up of many smaller interwined markets. Basic economic axioms occur regardless if it's the hypothetical Robinson Crusoe economy or the complex American economy. Size causes no detriment to this.

Trying to benefit or better oneself is the goal of everyone in an economy. When you buy a TV or a loaf of bread, are you not trying to better yourself? Or is that just another form of greed? Everyone tries to "game" the system, whether it's trying to obtain the highest price for what you're selling, or the lowest price for what you're buying. My point is, these acts are not acts of fraudulent deception, nor are they acts of greed. They are the acts that make the economy what it is. There is no drive nor motivation to labor, invent, or produce at a loss to oneself in order to benefit a stranger. Bettering oneself is the goal of everyone in the economy.

They often are though even with regulation. Peanut butter anyone?

Most of the time, most of the people are not in a position to know if what they buy is ok to buy. They rely on regulation to ensure that it is.

In regards to the PB, surely this was a criminal act, and I would never dispute that.

However it is a clear signal that the regulation designed to protect us, has failed us. And the worst of it is, the market cannot bankrupt the FDA as it would any private failing business.

[Saddle Bronc 124]

Clinton's non-acceptance of blame reminds me of an old "Dilbert" cartoon (© 1996, when 3.1 was still around on many company systems).

Ratbert: "Well, it's not my fault; the guy to blame is General Protection"

[mRx 16]

I wonder when the media is finally going to get it. This, and past crises were not caused by greed or deregulation.

How is greed quantified anyway? All decisions made on the market are voluntary, not forced. Nobody had a gun to anyone's head forcing them to invest in certain prospects or make certain loans. So what is greed? It's a pitiful and petty way to point the finger at someone when you have no legal justification to, as they engaged in voluntary transactions.

The culprits for this crisis lead all the way back to The New Deal. Regulation forced banks to lend, and undermined the free market mechanism of debtor risk assessment, all so "home ownership" could be included in the American Dream. Now we are obviously paying the price for those decisions.

A market can only self regulate only when every actor has knowledge of every other actor and factors influencing the market. This can work in a small scale. If someone is trying to game the system for their own benefit, they can simply be shut out.

But it all falls apart on a large scale. Both due to the volume of information of a large scale market, and due to the deception of the actors trying to gain an advantage in the market.

What is the motivation to deceive in a market? Greed.

A large scale economy is just made up of many smaller interwined markets. Basic economic axioms occur regardless if it's the hypothetical Robinson Crusoe economy or the complex American economy. Size causes no detriment to this.

Trying to benefit or better oneself is the goal of everyone in an economy. When you buy a TV or a loaf of bread, are you not trying to better yourself? Or is that just another form of greed? Everyone tries to "game" the system, whether it's trying to obtain the highest price for what you're selling, or the lowest price for what you're buying. My point is, these acts are not acts of fraudulent deception, nor are they acts of greed. They are the acts that make the economy what it is. There is no drive nor motivation to labor, invent, or produce at a loss to oneself in order to benefit a stranger. Bettering oneself is the goal of everyone in the economy.

Your still looking at a very simple goods based economy. The market we have now is way way beyond that.

I'm not saying the market is all greed, but there are people using greed to game the market.

Lets take a loaf of bread. Most sellers are selling it for $1 per loaf. A seller enters the market selling a loaf for 50 cents, however his loaf is hollow. But you do not know its hollow until after you have purchased the loaf.

In a small scale market, this seller would be pretty quickly pushed out of the market. The other actors would provide information to each other and no one would buy from him.

Because its a simple goods transaction, even in a large economy he would be eliminated fairly quickly, assuming he doesn't try to force his position with violence or other means.

Now, instead of that loaf of bread, we have a mortgage derivative. You buy it on the market for a fair price with the assumption that the debt backing are prime loans because that is "what you were told".

However, in truth, the derivative is backed by bad sub prime loans. You will never know that, because the seller created a disconnection between the product and the asset backing that product. You are trusting the sellers information, and the seller is being deceptive, to get you to buy bad debt at the price of good debt, and you have no way of knowing.

The collapse of the derivatives is an effect of the crisis not a cause. Those subprime loans were backed by Fannie and Freddie which was backed by the Federal Government. Those loans would've never been made in the free market, because creditors actually evaluate such things as default risk and base loans off that, whereas Fannie and Freddie had no incentive to. They had absolutely unlimited credit, and 0 liability and this completely restructured the lending market. These subprime loans were much desired investments, but only because of the credit expanding deception caused by bureaucrat's policies.

The only thing complex about the market, and the only thing that explains crises, depressions, recessions, and down-turns can be answered by understanding how the business cycle works and how it is a government created phenomenon.

[Peikko 1,575]

I wonder when the media is finally going to get it. This, and past crises were not caused by greed or deregulation.

How is greed quantified anyway? All decisions made on the market are voluntary, not forced. Nobody had a gun to anyone's head forcing them to invest in certain prospects or make certain loans. So what is greed? It's a pitiful and petty way to point the finger at someone when you have no legal justification to, as they engaged in voluntary transactions.

The culprits for this crisis lead all the way back to The New Deal. Regulation forced banks to lend, and undermined the free market mechanism of debtor risk assessment, all so "home ownership" could be included in the American Dream. Now we are obviously paying the price for those decisions.

A market can only self regulate only when every actor has knowledge of every other actor and factors influencing the market. This can work in a small scale. If someone is trying to game the system for their own benefit, they can simply be shut out.

But it all falls apart on a large scale. Both due to the volume of information of a large scale market, and due to the deception of the actors trying to gain an advantage in the market.

What is the motivation to deceive in a market? Greed.

A large scale economy is just made up of many smaller interwined markets. Basic economic axioms occur regardless if it's the hypothetical Robinson Crusoe economy or the complex American economy. Size causes no detriment to this.

Trying to benefit or better oneself is the goal of everyone in an economy. When you buy a TV or a loaf of bread, are you not trying to better yourself? Or is that just another form of greed? Everyone tries to "game" the system, whether it's trying to obtain the highest price for what you're selling, or the lowest price for what you're buying. My point is, these acts are not acts of fraudulent deception, nor are they acts of greed. They are the acts that make the economy what it is. There is no drive nor motivation to labor, invent, or produce at a loss to oneself in order to benefit a stranger. Bettering oneself is the goal of everyone in the economy.

They often are though even with regulation. Peanut butter anyone?

Most of the time, most of the people are not in a position to know if what they buy is ok to buy. They rely on regulation to ensure that it is.

In regards to the PB, surely this was a criminal act, and I would never dispute that.

However it is a clear signal that the regulation designed to protect us, has failed us. And the worst of it is, the market cannot bankrupt the FDA as it would any private failing business.

Not enough money to make it preventative but that isn't the complete purpose of the FDA. Without it, these things would never be uncovered, or at least it would take a lot longer, more deaths would occur and there would not be a simple way to prosecute those who do break the law. It's like most laws really, there are no policemen out there trying to stop people from committing crimes, just to prosecute when they do.

Personally, the fact that the Peanut scandal surfaced relatively quickly proves the FDA is working reasonably well.

I wonder when the media is finally going to get it. This, and past crises were not caused by greed or deregulation.

How is greed quantified anyway? All decisions made on the market are voluntary, not forced. Nobody had a gun to anyone's head forcing them to invest in certain prospects or make certain loans. So what is greed? It's a pitiful and petty way to point the finger at someone when you have no legal justification to, as they engaged in voluntary transactions.

The culprits for this crisis lead all the way back to The New Deal. Regulation forced banks to lend, and undermined the free market mechanism of debtor risk assessment, all so "home ownership" could be included in the American Dream. Now we are obviously paying the price for those decisions.

A market can only self regulate only when every actor has knowledge of every other actor and factors influencing the market. This can work in a small scale. If someone is trying to game the system for their own benefit, they can simply be shut out.

But it all falls apart on a large scale. Both due to the volume of information of a large scale market, and due to the deception of the actors trying to gain an advantage in the market.

What is the motivation to deceive in a market? Greed.

A large scale economy is just made up of many smaller interwined markets. Basic economic axioms occur regardless if it's the hypothetical Robinson Crusoe economy or the complex American economy. Size causes no detriment to this.

Trying to benefit or better oneself is the goal of everyone in an economy. When you buy a TV or a loaf of bread, are you not trying to better yourself? Or is that just another form of greed? Everyone tries to "game" the system, whether it's trying to obtain the highest price for what you're selling, or the lowest price for what you're buying. My point is, these acts are not acts of fraudulent deception, nor are they acts of greed. They are the acts that make the economy what it is. There is no drive nor motivation to labor, invent, or produce at a loss to oneself in order to benefit a stranger. Bettering oneself is the goal of everyone in the economy.

Your still looking at a very simple goods based economy. The market we have now is way way beyond that.

I'm not saying the market is all greed, but there are people using greed to game the market.

Lets take a loaf of bread. Most sellers are selling it for $1 per loaf. A seller enters the market selling a loaf for 50 cents, however his loaf is hollow. But you do not know its hollow until after you have purchased the loaf.

In a small scale market, this seller would be pretty quickly pushed out of the market. The other actors would provide information to each other and no one would buy from him.

Because its a simple goods transaction, even in a large economy he would be eliminated fairly quickly, assuming he doesn't try to force his position with violence or other means.

Now, instead of that loaf of bread, we have a mortgage derivative. You buy it on the market for a fair price with the assumption that the debt backing are prime loans because that is "what you were told".

However, in truth, the derivative is backed by bad sub prime loans. You will never know that, because the seller created a disconnection between the product and the asset backing that product. You are trusting the sellers information, and the seller is being deceptive, to get you to buy bad debt at the price of good debt, and you have no way of knowing.

The collapse of the derivatives is an effect of the crisis not a cause. Those subprime loans were backed by Fannie and Freddie which was backed by the Federal Government. Those loans would've never been made in the free market, because creditors actually evaluate such things as default risk and base loans off that, whereas Fannie and Freddie had no incentive to. They had absolutely unlimited credit, and 0 liability and this completely restructured the lending market. These subprime loans were much desired investments, but only because of the credit expanding deception caused by bureaucrat's policies.

The only thing complex about the market, and the only thing that explains crises, depressions, recessions, and down-turns can be answered by understanding how the business cycle works and how it is a government created phenomenon.

Which presumably explains how pre regulation factories were such happy places.