I-864 - how to treat dividends and interest

[cheapcharlie 0]

I'm recently married and about to submit the whole I-130/I-485/I-864 pack to USCIS but I have a question about the I-864...

I'm presently unemployed and attempting to start my own business, but for the purposes of this discussion I have no earned income to list in Question #23. There should be no question that I qualify to support my wife, I have significant assets. I'll probably make $10-15k this year in interest and dividends. I could list that in #23 and make up the difference with assets though I'm thinking that would be more complicated to demonstrate and predict accurately. Wouldn't it just be simpler to answer $0 as household income and make up the 5 x $18,212 with cash? I can do that with room to spare, I'm just wondering what makes their decision easier. Any thoughts?

Also, for listing incomes for the previous three years, should I include dividends and interest in those calculations? I was living and working overseas so my US-based dividend and interest income is treated separately from my earned income. In other words, my total income is not listed on my 1040 in one place, though all the numbers are there to be added up.

All things considered this is a good problem to have and I'm a little embarrassed to be asking these questions. From some other posts I can tell that some people in this forum are struggling to make this all work. But any help would be greatly appreciated...

Many thanks for any input whatsoever.

[Nich-Nick 3,354]

I'm recently married and about to submit the whole I-130/I-485/I-864 pack to USCIS but I have a question about the I-864...

I'm presently unemployed and attempting to start my own business, but for the purposes of this discussion I have no earned income to list in Question #23. There should be no question that I qualify to support my wife, I have significant assets. I'll probably make $10-15k this year in interest and dividends. I could list that in #23 and make up the difference with assets though I'm thinking that would be more complicated to demonstrate and predict accurately. Wouldn't it just be simpler to answer $0 as household income and make up the 5 x $18,212 with cash? I can do that with room to spare, I'm just wondering what makes their decision easier. Any thoughts?

Also, for listing incomes for the previous three years, should I include dividends and interest in those calculations? I was living and working overseas so my US-based dividend and interest income is treated separately from my earned income. In other words, my total income is not listed on my 1040 in one place, though all the numbers are there to be added up.

All things considered this is a good problem to have and I'm a little embarrassed to be asking these questions. From some other posts I can tell that some people in this forum are struggling to make this all work. But any help would be greatly appreciated...

Many thanks for any input whatsoever.

Does your adjusted gross income show over the required amount? That includes interest and dividends. That's what they look at. You would have 1099-INT and 1099-DIV forms to show the interest and dividends as supporting docs.

[cheapcharlie 0]

It does not for 2006 and it won't for 2008 but I haven't filed 2008 yet. For 2005 and 2007 (my most recent) it does.

There are two issues:

1) Adjusted gross doesn't account for income earned while overseas. So in 2007 for example, my AGI was only $28k while my real total is $34k. I know that covers the minimum but I'd like a greater margin. And in 2005 my AGI was only about $2k but my real earnings was over $40k if you include what I earned offshore (there's an $80k exemption if you live overseas, so anything up to that gets deducted).

2) I have no job at the moment, and I haven't for more than a year (I'm setting something up on my own, slowly...). At the moment I have a lot of cash in a money market, more in stocks, and a house with no mortgage. My 2008 income, which will come exclusively from my 1099s, was around $16k. But interest rates are lower now so that may be less this year. I could estimate it, but I don't like the idea of having to justify my projection.

Hence the temptation to just list it as $0 and make it all up on assets. But $0 might look suspicious, especially if I list AGI only as income for 2005-2007. That would work out to something like $2k in 2005, $3k in 2006 and $28k in 2007. If I list my total earnings for that period it would be something like $42k for 2005, $14k for 2006 and $34k for 2007. I would think that, plus a lot of assets, make the case a lot more clear.

Any thoughts on how to make their decision as easy as possible?

[Steph0814 1]

Please feel free to go through my posts in regards to using assets for your I864. I don't have the time of energy to type it all over again here.

But read through them, using your assets is very very tricky and I don't want to be a downer here but you may want to just lok into getting a joint sponsor. I will bet that in using solely your assets you will get an RFE for a joint sponsor.

Hope my posts help with your decision

[Brad and Vika 129]

I agree that you should probably seek a sponsor, just to be safe. Using assets as you describe above (with proof) might be a tough sell. B)

[cheapcharlie 0]

Please feel free to go through my posts in regards to using assets for your I864. I don't have the time of energy to type it all over again here.

But read through them, using your assets is very very tricky and I don't want to be a downer here but you may want to just lok into getting a joint sponsor. I will bet that in using solely your assets you will get an RFE for a joint sponsor.

Hope my posts help with your decision

Thanks for the suggestion, I read your posts on the issue. I thought it would be easier to make up the gap with assets. It would be much simpler in my case - I have about $300k in cash at the moment (out of a total net worth of over $1M) so I don't have to send them 200 pages of supporting docs as you did for all those houses.

I can get a joint sponsor without a problem but I'd really like to get this in the mail to USCIS tomorrow and I can't do that by then. I'm now tempted to send it in with an income estimate and proof of assets and see how it goes. How much does an RFE slow down the review process?

[Steph0814 1]

To be honest with you, and I have seen 2 examples of this. Trying to prove assets in Cash is even more difficult. I am just trying to help you out here.

I had about $7000 in a seperate savings account as well as the 30 houses my husband owns & rents and they told me to get a joint sponsor Twice.

But yeah, let us know what happens. I would love to see a case where the petitioner uses assets and actually gets approved (Just because I haven't witnessed one yet).

All the best!

[cheapcharlie 0]

Any idea how much an RFE slows down the overall process?

[Steph0814 1]

Well I got 3 and depending on how long it takes you to get the info back to them really. It took me the most a week to get the stuff back to them.

Also if you get an RFE for AOS, everything associated with it gets halted meaning your EAD and AP (assuming you are applying for those as well.

From start to finish I got my GC in 10 1/2 months, but they also messed up my receipt numbers so that had to get sorted and took an extra 3 months. : (

Edited February 16, 2009 by Steph0814

[Nich-Nick 3,354]

If you can show 300k in cash assets with bank/investment statements then go for it. That's liquid assets and not nearly the same as selling off a house or two to buy groceries. And another question...not knowing overseas income things...but don't you have to show that income somewhere in the tax return and then it show the exclusion?? If it shows up somewhere, then write an explanation that you earned it but got to exclude $x.xx so it does not appear in your AGI. Make a little explanatory spreadsheet or something.

An RFE shouldn't hold you up but a couple of weeks. Does it matter that much if you're together whether GC comes in 5 mo. or 6 mo.?

Edited February 16, 2009 by Nich-Nick

[cheapcharlie 0]

I checked out the I-864A and it looks easy enough. I thought it would complicate matters but ultimately I think it will simplify them since I can leave my assets and an explanation of my income history out of it. If I can knock that out tonight and still get this all in the mail tomorrow I'll be satisfied with our chances.

As for income earned while living overseas, yes it does show on the 1040 but they specifically ask for adjusted gross and I don't want to deviate from their instructions. One does that at one's peril. I know how these things work - they have a box and they need to put a check in that box, and until they do you're not going anywhere. That's bureaucracy, and since income is the easiest way for them to check the box I'll go for that.

I think making the decision easy for them is always your best bet. Sending in 200 pages of supporting docs might seem like an impressive gesture, but I think it actually makes the situation worse. USCIS employees are probably evaluated by how efficiently they process these forms correctly and I want to play to that as much as possible.

Thanks again for the info and advice.

Good luck to everyone. This is a fantastic forum for those of us either too cheap (me) or too poor to pay an attorney an arm and a leg to do this for us.

[cheapcharlie 0]

As for income earned while living overseas, yes it does show on the 1040 but they specifically ask for adjusted gross and I don't want to deviate from their instructions...

Actually I just reread the question and it specifies AGI only if you use 1040EZ so I probably will list my total income (foreign earned and 1099) but still use another sponsor to compensate for my presently inadequate income.

Thanks again for everyone's help.

[Carlos and Jocel 2]

I'm recently married and about to submit the whole I-130/I-485/I-864 pack to USCIS but I have a question about the I-864...

I'm presently unemployed and attempting to start my own business, but for the purposes of this discussion I have no earned income to list in Question #23. There should be no question that I qualify to support my wife, I have significant assets. I'll probably make $10-15k this year in interest and dividends. I could list that in #23 and make up the difference with assets though I'm thinking that would be more complicated to demonstrate and predict accurately. Wouldn't it just be simpler to answer $0 as household income and make up the 5 x $18,212 with cash? I can do that with room to spare, I'm just wondering what makes their decision easier. Any thoughts?

Also, for listing incomes for the previous three years, should I include dividends and interest in those calculations? I was living and working overseas so my US-based dividend and interest income is treated separately from my earned income. In other words, my total income is not listed on my 1040 in one place, though all the numbers are there to be added up.

All things considered this is a good problem to have and I'm a little embarrassed to be asking these questions. From some other posts I can tell that some people in this forum are struggling to make this all work. But any help would be greatly appreciated...

Many thanks for any input whatsoever.

YOU MAY HAVE INCOME OF 0 AT THIS TIME BUT IF YOU HAVE ASSETS, I.E., HOUSE OR OTHER PROPERTY IT CAN BE USE AS PART OF THE INCOME. IF YOU HAVE 2 CARS, THE VALUE OF 2ND CAR CAN BE ASSETS AS THE FINANCIA;L SUPPORTS. AS LONG AS YOU HAVE SOME TYPE OF MONEY VALUES AND ADD TOGETHER, IT'S GOOD TO GO.