British and French Subs Crash

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

BRITISH and French nuclear submarines which collided deep under the Atlantic could have sunk or released deadly radioactivity, it emerged last night.

The Royal Navy’s HMS Vanguard and the French Navy’s Le Triomphant are both nuclear powered and were carrying nuke missiles.

Between them they had around 250 sailors on board.

A senior Navy source said: “The potential consequences are unthinkable. It’s very unlikely there would have been a nuclear explosion.

“But a radioactive leak was a possibility. Worse, we could have lost the crew and warheads. That would have been a national disaster.”

The collision is believed to have taken place on February 3 or 4, in mid-Atlantic. Both subs were submerged and on separate missions.

As inquiries began, naval sources said it was a millions-to-one unlucky chance both subs were in the same patch of sea. Warships have sonar gear which locates submarines by sound waves.

But modern anti-sonar technology is so good it is possible neither boat “saw” the other.

A senior military source said: “The lines between London and Paris have been hot.”

The MoD insisted last night there had been no nuclear security breach. But this is the biggest embarrassment to the Navy since Iran captured 15 sailors in 2007. The naval source said: “Crashing a nuclear submarine is as serious as it gets.”

Vanguard is one of Britain’s four V-Class subs forming our Trident nuclear deterrent. Each is armed with 16 ballistic missiles.

She was last night towed into Faslane in Scotland, with dents and scrapes visible on her hull. Triomphant limped to Brest with extensive damage to her sonar dome. Triomphant has a crew of 101.

Vanguard weighs 16,000 tons, is 150 metres long and has a crew of 140.

The MoD said it did not comment on submarine operations.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article2240543.ece

[Jasman0717 9]

The French have a sub

[Yoink 7]

I think they thought it was 1809 and they were trying to take eachother as a prize....

Sorry I just watch Master and Commander "far side of the world"

[Laura+Tom 2]

Bit more info. I find the BBC a bit more credible than The Sun.

Nuclear subs collide in Atlantic

A Royal Navy nuclear submarine was involved in a collision with a French nuclear sub in the middle of the Atlantic, the MoD has confirmed.

HMS Vanguard and Le Triomphant were badly damaged in the crash in heavy seas earlier this month.

First Sea Lord Admiral Sir Jonathon Band said the submarines came into contact at low speed and no injuries were reported.

Both the UK and France insisted nuclear security had not been compromised.

BBC defence correspondent Caroline Wyatt said the incident was "incredibly embarrassing" for the Ministry of Defence (MoD).

She said HMS Vanguard, with "very visible dents and scrapes", had to be towed back into its home base at Faslane on the Firth of Clyde.

The submarines are equipped with sonar to detect other vessels nearby but our correspondent said it might the case that the anti-sonar devices, meant to hide the submarines from enemies, were "too effective".

"This is clearly a one-in-a-million chance when you think about how big the Atlantic is," she said.

Sonar dome

The two submarines are key parts of each nation's nuclear deterrent, and would have been carrying missiles, though both the UK and France have insisted there was no danger of a nuclear incident.

They were carrying around 240 sailors between them. A French naval spokesman said the collision did not result in any injuries to the crew.

Le Triomphant is based at L'Ile Longue near Brest, north-west France. HMS Vanguard arrived back in Faslane on Saturday.

France's defence ministry said in a statement, dated 6 February, that Le Triomphant "collided with an immersed object (probably a container)" when coming back from patrolling.

"The sonar dome, at the front, was damaged. This incident did not cause any injuries among the crew and did not threaten the nuclear security at any time," it said.

"The submarine came back by its own means to L'Ile Longue, escorted by a frigate, as it is the usual practice when leaving or coming back."

'Large ocean'

Nuclear engineer John Large told the BBC that navies often used the same "nesting grounds".

"Both navies want quiet areas, deep areas, roughly the same distance from their home ports. So you find these station grounds have got quite a few submarines, not only French and Royal Navy but also from Russia and the United States."

When the nuclear submarine HMS Trafalgar ran aground during a training exercise off the coast of Skye in 2002, the damage was estimated at £5m ($7m).

Politicians have demanded more information on the latest incident.

Lib Dem defence spokesman Nick Harvey has called for an immediate internal inquiry with some of the conclusions made public.

"While the British nuclear fleet has a good safety record, if there were ever to be a bang it would be a mighty big one," he said.

"Now that this incident is public knowledge, the people of Britain, France and the rest of the world need to be reassured this can never happen again and that lessons are being learned."

Meanwhile, SNP Westminster leader Angus Robertson has called for a government statement.

"The Ministry of Defence needs to explain how it is possible for a submarine carrying weapons of mass destruction to collide with another submarine carrying weapons of mass destruction in the middle of the world's second-largest ocean," he said.

The Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament described the collision as "a nuclear nightmare of the highest order".

CND chair Kate Hudson said: "The collision of two submarines, both with nuclear reactors and nuclear weapons onboard, could have released vast amounts of radiation and scattered scores of nuclear warheads across the seabed."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7892294.stm

[Jasman0717 9]

Sorry I just watch Master and Commander "far side of the world"

I vaguely remember that

[Nagishkaw 510]

The French have a sub

Even more shocking, Canada does too.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

The French have a sub

The story did not mention whether or not the French sub immediately tried to surrender.

Edited February 16, 2009 by Mister_Bill

[Yoink 7]

The French have a sub

The story did not mention whether or not the French sub immediately tried to surrender.

[Laura+Tom 2]

The French have a sub

The story did not mention whether or not the French sub immediately tried to surrender.

[DeadPoolX 9]

The French have a sub

Even more shocking, Canada does too.

Yes, we do. Although it's safely parked inside of West Edmonton Mall...

[Nagishkaw 510]

The French have a sub

Even more shocking, Canada does too.

Yes, we do. Although it's safely parked inside of West Edmonton Mall...

[spookyturtle 9,465]

The French have a sub

The story did not mention whether or not the French sub immediately tried to surrender.

That was exactly my initial thought.

[Ban Hammer 13,332]

I think they thought it was 1809 and they were trying to take eachother as a prize....

Sorry I just watch Master and Commander "far side of the world"

good movie

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

The French have a sub

The story did not mention whether or not the French sub immediately tried to surrender.

That was exactly my initial thought.

Ne tirez pas! Nous nous rendons!

[MrsCat 6]

The French have a sub

Even more shocking, Canada does too.

Yes, we do. Although it's safely parked inside of West Edmonton Mall...