Children of the Mountains Struggle to Survive

[Heracles 417]

makes ya wonder who's country is really being stimulated here, eh?

It's well documented that a good portion of illegal immigrants send billions back to their home country. Normally I would sort off understand as they are trying to feed their family back there. The problem now is you have Americans losing their jobs, losing their homes and living on the street while illegal immigrants continue to be employed. The money the are sending back could be used here to stimulate the American economy. It is also not hard to predict who is going to benefit big-time from the construction stimulus. If anything, more illegal immigrants may now come to capitalize on the stimulus.

[Caladan 19]

Because the laws are badly designed. Look at how hard a time legal immigrants have getting legal driver's licenses in some states. It's not affecting illegal immigrants, just the legal ones. I would be very worried that eVerify makes it impossible for new legal immigrants to obtain work because USCIS won't update the work authorization information efficiently.

Or gives accurately information with no context; we have to remove conditions in November. Is it going to say that C. is only legal until November? It's going to take a year then for them to stamp another form. Is it going to say "pending" for a year? Pretend you know nothing about immigration, and you have a choice between hiring a citizen and someone whose information says "expires 11/17/09." Who are you going to hire? I think things like eVerify are good ideas but I want to be very sure that it's not going to mean forced unemployment for my husband.

And outside of an immigration board, almost no one cares about the difference between legal and illegal -- all they hear is immigrant. (And they think those that are married to citizens are automatically citizens. And most people don't check papers. They just "know." This is why people think the lady who runs the burrito cart is Mexican even though she's from Malaysia.) And the (false) public perception of the marriage class of visas is a bunch of guys seeking young women who are using them. So if eVerify makes 8% of legal people work ineligible, most people aren't going to care about the immigrants that affects, because most people don't know enough about how immigration works and they don't want foreigners here anyway.

So where do you get your stats that E-Verify is 8% inacurate? I keep reading from various sources that it is 99.5% accurate. But knowing the liberal mindset the world should stop turning and we shouldn't do anything unless it is 100% perfect. Yes...let's pander once again to the lowest common denominator. Heaven forbid if it inconveniences one in a million that would have to go through some extra effort to get a discrepancy straightened out. In the mean time we just hire millions of illegal aliens to the detriment of millions of unemployed citizens. I'm sure millions of unemployed Americans buy into that stupid logic....not!

Really...if the USA can put a man on the moon and debit card purchases can be made instantaniously in a supermarket line, E-Verify can be done. The problem is that the usual suspects use every lie and excuse to keep it from happening.

From rebeccajo's article. Follow the link. It reports some of the problems with the tests. It's not pandering. People like rebeccajo's husband got held up in namecheck for years; it would be a shame if the result of that c0ckup was forced unemployment for legal residents while illegal migrant workers got off scot-free.

[rebeccajo 14]

Because the laws are badly designed. Look at how hard a time legal immigrants have getting legal driver's licenses in some states. It's not affecting illegal immigrants, just the legal ones. I would be very worried that eVerify makes it impossible for new legal immigrants to obtain work because USCIS won't update the work authorization information efficiently.

Or gives accurately information with no context; we have to remove conditions in November. Is it going to say that C. is only legal until November? It's going to take a year then for them to stamp another form. Is it going to say "pending" for a year? Pretend you know nothing about immigration, and you have a choice between hiring a citizen and someone whose information says "expires 11/17/09." Who are you going to hire? I think things like eVerify are good ideas but I want to be very sure that it's not going to mean forced unemployment for my husband.

And outside of an immigration board, almost no one cares about the difference between legal and illegal -- all they hear is immigrant. (And they think those that are married to citizens are automatically citizens. And most people don't check papers. They just "know." This is why people think the lady who runs the burrito cart is Mexican even though she's from Malaysia.) And the (false) public perception of the marriage class of visas is a bunch of guys seeking young women who are using them. So if eVerify makes 8% of legal people work ineligible, most people aren't going to care about the immigrants that affects, because most people don't know enough about how immigration works and they don't want foreigners here anyway.

So where do you get your stats that E-Verify is 8% inacurate? I keep reading from various sources that it is 99.5% accurate. But knowing the liberal mindset the world should stop turning and we shouldn't do anything unless it is 100% perfect. Yes...let's pander once again to the lowest common denominator. Heaven forbid if it inconveniences one in a million that would have to go through some extra effort to get a discrepancy straightened out. In the mean time we just hire millions of illegal aliens to the detriment of millions of unemployed citizens. I'm sure millions of unemployed Americans buy into that stupid logic....not!

Really...if the USA can put a man on the moon and debit card purchases can be made instantaniously in a supermarket line, E-Verify can be done. The problem is that the usual suspects use every lie and excuse to keep it from happening.

From rebeccajo's article. Follow the link. It reports some of the problems with the tests. It's not pandering. People like rebeccajo's husband got held up in namecheck for years; it would be a shame if the result of that c0ckup was forced unemployment for legal residents while illegal migrant workers got off scot-free.

Yeah, but I guess peejay and others think 'forced unemployment' of a LEGALLY ELIGIBLE TO WORK alien is just a 'minor discrepancy' that can easily be cleared up.

Lemme ask you something, peejay. Why in the HELL should I and my husband even have to worry about that? We paid our money and did our time to get him here legally. He WORKS in this country. He supports himself and our family and he pays taxes. Why should ANYBODY who has already been vetted by immigration have to go through it OVER AND OVER AND OVER again?

Of course, since you have enough money to support your wife and daughter, that's no worry to you. My husband, on the other hand, is the major breadwinner in our house. When he first arrived, I did my part via the affidavit of support and took care of him. Eventually he found work and is a productive member of the US work force. He has acclimated himself to our culture and holds up his end of the so-called American dream.

All this paranoia about illegal entrants is creating an underclass of LEGAL immigrants in the US. I'm really glad my husband already has his job - as Caladan said, who is gonna want to mess with hiring a pesky immigrant?

[luckytxn 2,264]

If one is legal and does all needed done then they should be rewarded by not having to worry. When there are 10-20 million illegals and most of them are using fake papers then something needs done. The E-verify is used to check employees in a day or days at the most. Right now it takes many months to verify someone is allowed to work legally and by the time the employer gets the ok or not then that illegal has worked and sent money away to another country and taken a job someone that is here legally could have done and kept the money here. By that time the illegal can leave and find another job and start again until many months later they get found out. Actually many employers know this and use the system to pay lower salaries to known illegals as they know that when they have to fire that one that another will be there to take that job. The many nets that have been done by immigration raids has found this out also and the excuse is that it takes so long to verify so the employer can't be blamed. BS.

I go all over the country and all parts and almost always it is worked by illegals working them. Others along with myself report these places to ICE and we belong to websites that report them. I was banned from delivering to one Alside manufacturing plant because I asked a few questions too many. Out of the hundreds that worked in that one plant only a few were maybe legal. That is a lot of jobs that Americans could be doing to put food on their families tables. Now I understand that manufacturing and wharehouse jobs are not that great but they do pay a wage.

Edited February 17, 2009 by luckytxn

[HannahP 119]

Well as usual I always try to come at it from another angle.

Granted times are tight right now.... but why did these people not pack-up and head to an area which offered more opportunity when jobs were a'pleanty?..... that is, the American legacy!~

Who ever made a promise to these people that there would always be work? Automation has killed their line of work years ago as it did to the textile industry and many others.

Industries come and go man and the last thing we need to do is encourage these folks to stay put, hoping for a better day.... while living off the tax payer. The result of this will be more kids born in these depressed areas with little or no future.

We need to tie any social service offered to these folks two things, skill training and public service so we can sort out the free loaders from the truly desperate.

Every thing should be aimed at moving these people out of a place with no future.

This is exactly what I did when I moved to Charlotte some years ago and I bet a lot of you did as well. The Job to housing price ratio was too great in NJ so I got out.

To me this is no different than welfare Moms in the ghettos expecting someone to "do for them" when they are living a life of their own doing. Who made them drop out of school? Get caught up in drugs or get involved in bad relationships?

Not me, so don't expect me to pull your wagon while you are sitting in it.

Does anyone think a monthly check is going to change their life? The main reason those people stayed right there when the rest of the country was doing good is because of these damn Govt hand-outs.

And I know you see those kids with dirty faces living in a school bus... the first instinct is to "do something".

I'm all for that but, the easiest thing TO DO is typically the very thing which causes these children of these kids to have the same life.

This country has always been the land of opportunity (and it will be again) for those who seek it, some just need a push.

My god, you really are clueless.

Mountain folk have always been poor. They didn't move to the mountains because of the now defunct American auto industry. Nobody is "encouraging" them to stay -- they're staying because it's where they've lived since manifest destiny pushed the pioneers over the Appalachians and into the midwest. They ARE part of the American legacy.

Edited February 17, 2009 by HannahP

[panamania79 2]

Really depressing to watch. Especially to see kids living under those conditions in the richest country in the world.

EXACTLY !

[DeadPoolX 9]

Because the laws are badly designed. Look at how hard a time legal immigrants have getting legal driver's licenses in some states. It's not affecting illegal immigrants, just the legal ones. I would be very worried that eVerify makes it impossible for new legal immigrants to obtain work because USCIS won't update the work authorization information efficiently.

Or gives accurately information with no context; we have to remove conditions in November. Is it going to say that C. is only legal until November? It's going to take a year then for them to stamp another form. Is it going to say "pending" for a year? Pretend you know nothing about immigration, and you have a choice between hiring a citizen and someone whose information says "expires 11/17/09." Who are you going to hire? I think things like eVerify are good ideas but I want to be very sure that it's not going to mean forced unemployment for my husband.

And outside of an immigration board, almost no one cares about the difference between legal and illegal -- all they hear is immigrant. (And they think those that are married to citizens are automatically citizens. And most people don't check papers. They just "know." This is why people think the lady who runs the burrito cart is Mexican even though she's from Malaysia.) And the (false) public perception of the marriage class of visas is a bunch of guys seeking young women who are using them. So if eVerify makes 8% of legal people work ineligible, most people aren't going to care about the immigrants that affects, because most people don't know enough about how immigration works and they don't want foreigners here anyway.

That's the problem. People need to be shown the difference between LEGAL and ILLEGAL concerning immigration. How that'll get done is beyond me, since most people stop listening as soon as the word "immigrant" is brought up.

As for the idea that visas are for men seeking mail-order brides, that's a widely held thought that needs to be ended. Does that occur? Yup. Is it nearly as commonplace as the media would like you to believe? I doubt it.

[peejay 327]

Because the laws are badly designed. Look at how hard a time legal immigrants have getting legal driver's licenses in some states. It's not affecting illegal immigrants, just the legal ones. I would be very worried that eVerify makes it impossible for new legal immigrants to obtain work because USCIS won't update the work authorization information efficiently.

Or gives accurately information with no context; we have to remove conditions in November. Is it going to say that C. is only legal until November? It's going to take a year then for them to stamp another form. Is it going to say "pending" for a year? Pretend you know nothing about immigration, and you have a choice between hiring a citizen and someone whose information says "expires 11/17/09." Who are you going to hire? I think things like eVerify are good ideas but I want to be very sure that it's not going to mean forced unemployment for my husband.

And outside of an immigration board, almost no one cares about the difference between legal and illegal -- all they hear is immigrant. (And they think those that are married to citizens are automatically citizens. And most people don't check papers. They just "know." This is why people think the lady who runs the burrito cart is Mexican even though she's from Malaysia.) And the (false) public perception of the marriage class of visas is a bunch of guys seeking young women who are using them. So if eVerify makes 8% of legal people work ineligible, most people aren't going to care about the immigrants that affects, because most people don't know enough about how immigration works and they don't want foreigners here anyway.

So where do you get your stats that E-Verify is 8% inacurate? I keep reading from various sources that it is 99.5% accurate. But knowing the liberal mindset the world should stop turning and we shouldn't do anything unless it is 100% perfect. Yes...let's pander once again to the lowest common denominator. Heaven forbid if it inconveniences one in a million that would have to go through some extra effort to get a discrepancy straightened out. In the mean time we just hire millions of illegal aliens to the detriment of millions of unemployed citizens. I'm sure millions of unemployed Americans buy into that stupid logic....not!

Really...if the USA can put a man on the moon and debit card purchases can be made instantaniously in a supermarket line, E-Verify can be done. The problem is that the usual suspects use every lie and excuse to keep it from happening.

From rebeccajo's article. Follow the link. It reports some of the problems with the tests. It's not pandering. People like rebeccajo's husband got held up in namecheck for years; it would be a shame if the result of that c0ckup was forced unemployment for legal residents while illegal migrant workers got off scot-free.

Yeah, but I guess peejay and others think 'forced unemployment' of a LEGALLY ELIGIBLE TO WORK alien is just a 'minor discrepancy' that can easily be cleared up.

Lemme ask you something, peejay. Why in the HELL should I and my husband even have to worry about that? We paid our money and did our time to get him here legally. He WORKS in this country. He supports himself and our family and he pays taxes. Why should ANYBODY who has already been vetted by immigration have to go through it OVER AND OVER AND OVER again?

Why should you have to worry about it? Because people like you refuse to see beyond your own selfishness and cluelessness until it causes you some discomfort.

Where were you in 1986 when congress promised to pass a "one time" amnesty of 3 million illegal aliens with promises of future measures to create a sytem to verify employment eligibility? Since then we have had 6 other illegal alien amnesties encompassing millions of illegal aliens in addition to millions of legal immigrants and another additional 20 million illegal aliens here in the USA in 2009. And now these same incompetent pricks that have ruined the economy want to amnesty these 20 million illegal aliens and still continue to import roughly 100,000+ legal immigrant workers a month even as the US economy sheds millions of US jobs. What in the ** is wrong with this scenario? Where were you when all this stupidity was going on? Is this some sort of surprise? Like it just popped up out of nowhere?

After 25 years of this stupidness don't you think it is about time to get a handle on this? If not now when we have millions of Americans out of work, then when? After 25 years and several "comprehensive" immigration legislations being signed into law and sh*tloads of broken promises and lies, isn't it about time to start enforcing the law and implementing the E-Verify system that has been mandated by law for decades?

You have made absolutely no secret of you sympathy of any and all illegal aliens to break any law they find inconvenient and to come here to the land of "Milk and Honey" in unlimited numbers as they see fit.

Instead of venting your anger at me, maybe you should take a good deep look at your own views and actions. You are either a part of the solution or a part of the problem. Which is it?

[Brad and Vika 129]

[Marilyn. 340]

Because the laws are badly designed. Look at how hard a time legal immigrants have getting legal driver's licenses in some states. It's not affecting illegal immigrants, just the legal ones. I would be very worried that eVerify makes it impossible for new legal immigrants to obtain work because USCIS won't update the work authorization information efficiently.

Or gives accurately information with no context; we have to remove conditions in November. Is it going to say that C. is only legal until November? It's going to take a year then for them to stamp another form. Is it going to say "pending" for a year? Pretend you know nothing about immigration, and you have a choice between hiring a citizen and someone whose information says "expires 11/17/09." Who are you going to hire? I think things like eVerify are good ideas but I want to be very sure that it's not going to mean forced unemployment for my husband.

And outside of an immigration board, almost no one cares about the difference between legal and illegal -- all they hear is immigrant. (And they think those that are married to citizens are automatically citizens. And most people don't check papers. They just "know." This is why people think the lady who runs the burrito cart is Mexican even though she's from Malaysia.) And the (false) public perception of the marriage class of visas is a bunch of guys seeking young women who are using them. So if eVerify makes 8% of legal people work ineligible, most people aren't going to care about the immigrants that affects, because most people don't know enough about how immigration works and they don't want foreigners here anyway.

So where do you get your stats that E-Verify is 8% inacurate? I keep reading from various sources that it is 99.5% accurate. But knowing the liberal mindset the world should stop turning and we shouldn't do anything unless it is 100% perfect. Yes...let's pander once again to the lowest common denominator. Heaven forbid if it inconveniences one in a million that would have to go through some extra effort to get a discrepancy straightened out. In the mean time we just hire millions of illegal aliens to the detriment of millions of unemployed citizens. I'm sure millions of unemployed Americans buy into that stupid logic....not!

Really...if the USA can put a man on the moon and debit card purchases can be made instantaniously in a supermarket line, E-Verify can be done. The problem is that the usual suspects use every lie and excuse to keep it from happening.

From rebeccajo's article. Follow the link. It reports some of the problems with the tests. It's not pandering. People like rebeccajo's husband got held up in namecheck for years; it would be a shame if the result of that c0ckup was forced unemployment for legal residents while illegal migrant workers got off scot-free.

Yeah, but I guess peejay and others think 'forced unemployment' of a LEGALLY ELIGIBLE TO WORK alien is just a 'minor discrepancy' that can easily be cleared up.

Lemme ask you something, peejay. Why in the HELL should I and my husband even have to worry about that? We paid our money and did our time to get him here legally. He WORKS in this country. He supports himself and our family and he pays taxes. Why should ANYBODY who has already been vetted by immigration have to go through it OVER AND OVER AND OVER again?

Why should you have to worry about it? Because people like you refuse to see beyond your own selfishness and cluelessness until it causes you some discomfort.

Where were you in 1986 when congress promised to pass a "one time" amnesty of 3 million illegal aliens with promises of future measures to create a sytem to verify employment eligibility? Since then we have had 6 other illegal alien amnesties encompassing millions of illegal aliens in addition to millions of legal immigrants and another additional 20 million illegal aliens here in the USA in 2009. And now these same incompetent pricks that have ruined the economy want to amnesty these 20 million illegal aliens and still continue to import roughly 100,000+ legal immigrant workers a month even as the US economy sheds millions of US jobs. What in the ** is wrong with this scenario? Where were you when all this stupidity was going on? Is this some sort of surprise? Like it just popped up out of nowhere?

After 25 years of this stupidness don't you think it is about time to get a handle on this? If not now when we have millions of Americans out of work, then when? After 25 years and several "comprehensive" immigration legislations being signed into law and sh*tloads of broken promises and lies, isn't it about time to start enforcing the law and implementing the E-Verify system that has been mandated by law for decades?

You have made absolutely no secret of you sympathy of any and all illegal aliens to break any law they find inconvenient and to come here to the land of "Milk and Honey" in unlimited numbers as they see fit.

Instead of venting your anger at me, maybe you should take a good deep look at your own views and actions. You are either a part of the solution or a part of the problem. Which is it?

actually I have never seen her do anything of the sort

[rebeccajo 14]

Peejay, do me a favor next time before you go off on another one of your rants. Don't accuse me of being a sympathizer to illegal behavior. I am not.

But as a US citizen who complied with the laws of my government, and the wife of an immigrant who did the same, I refuse to stand idly by while the US government messes around with me.

Here are excerpts from the link I gave (which happens to be a Department of Homeland Security study):

...................."Three employees contacted USCIS to correct problems with their paperwork. One

employee received the referral letter, called the USCIS telephone number, and resolved

the problem over the telephone without any difficulty. The other two employees did not

receive referral letters and went to local USCIS offices. The latter two employees

reported spending 1 to 2 days getting copies of various documents to return to their

employers. One employee returned with a letter stating that his permanent residency card

was in process and was terminated because the system reported a final nonconfirmation.

The second employee returned with a work permit renewal application and a letter from

his lawyer and was not terminated despite a final nonconfirmation from USCIS."....................

........................"Two employers suggested that the Web Basic Pilot system should be used by

all employers to prescreen applicants before they are hired or start working.

This suggestion indicates that these employers may not fully understand the

reasons for not prescreening applicants.".........................

......................."Most employees who did not contest the tentative nonconfirmation findings were not

work-authorized. A few work-authorized employees did not contest the findings or were

unsuccessful in contesting the findings because their employers did not give them

sufficient or correct information. For example, two work-authorized employees were

unable to contest the tentative nonconfirmation findings because they did not understand

how to correct their paperwork. Another two work-authorized employees tried to contest

but were unsuccessful; one was incorrectly told to go to SSA rather than USCIS, and the

other visited USCIS but did not have a referral letter explaining that he needed to resolve

a tentative nonconfirmation finding. In the latter case, the employee obtained a letter

from USCIS stating that he was in the process of becoming a permanent resident;

however, this documentation was not sufficient to prevent him from being terminated.

Two additional employees were told by their employer that the HR office would take care

of the problem for them, so they did not contest the finding themselves.".......................

And to luckytxn -

Since when does it take "many months" under the current I-9 system to verify if someone is work authorized or not? Do you know how to complete an I-9 yourself? Do you understand that process at all?

Edited February 17, 2009 by rebeccajo

[alienlovechild 75]

Mountain folk have always been poor.

Right. There's been some attention given to poverty in the mountains during the beginning on LBJ's war on povety in the 60s but not much has changed. Let's face it. Rural poverty especially if they're white isn't going to get much attention. Most Americans have no idea that vast stretches of the Great Plains are getting depopulated.

You know a region and a people are off the national radar when nobody claims to be from there on this forum.

My god, you really are clueless. Mountain folk have always been poor. They didn't move to the mountains because of the now defunct American auto industry.

Automation doesn't mean auto industry. I assume he's talking about the coal mining industry.

Automation has killed their line of work years ago as it did to the textile industry and many others.

[Caladan 19]

People care about the regions, but there's a reason we call it the cycle of poverty. If you're a bright kid from that area, and you manage to get out and go to college, you probably don't come back. If you're a patriotic kid, you probably join the military, then go to college, then don't move back. If you're not equipped to leave, then you stay in a region with no jobs (since the collapse of the coal industry.) It's not a healthy business area.

There was a similar dynamic in Pittsburgh for a while (where I grew up), which seems to be changing in recent years due to good universities and medical centers. But it had a city with a good base to begin with. Quite a lot of the rest of the Rust Belt was too small and too dependent on coal and steel.

The rest of Appalachia has been poor almost since the founding of the country for reasons I can't quite figure out.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

You know a region and a people are off the national radar when nobody claims to be from there on this forum.

Right off the top of my head, I can think of two regulars who proudly claim to be from there. There are, of course, many more.

[Danno 1,228]

Well as usual I always try to come at it from another angle.

Granted times are tight right now.... but why did these people not pack-up and head to an area which offered more opportunity when jobs were a'pleanty?..... that is, the American legacy!~

Who ever made a promise to these people that there would always be work? Automation has killed their line of work years ago as it did to the textile industry and many others.

Industries come and go man and the last thing we need to do is encourage these folks to stay put, hoping for a better day.... while living off the tax payer. The result of this will be more kids born in these depressed areas with little or no future.

We need to tie any social service offered to these folks two things, skill training and public

service so we can sort out the free loaders from the truly desperate.

Every thing should be aimed at moving these people out of a place with no future.

This is exactly what I did when I moved to Charlotte some years ago and I bet a lot of you did as well. The Job to housing price ratio was too great in NJ so I got out.

To me this is no different than welfare Moms in the ghettos expecting someone to "do for them" when they are living a life of their own doing. Who made them drop out of school? Get caught up in drugs or get involved in bad relationships?

Not me, so don't expect me to pull your wagon while you are sitting in it.

Does anyone think a monthly check is going to change their life? The main reason those people stayed right there when the rest of the country was doing good is because of these damn Govt hand-outs.

And I know you see those kids with dirty faces living in a school bus... the first instinct is to "do something".

I'm all for that but, the easiest thing TO DO is typically the very thing which causes these children of these kids to have the same life.

This country has always been the land of opportunity (and it will be again) for those who seek it, some just need a push.

My god, you really are clueless.

Mountain folk have always been poor. They didn't move to the mountains because of the now defunct American auto industry. Nobody is "encouraging" them to stay -- they're staying because it's where they've lived since manifest destiny pushed the pioneers over the Appalachians and into the midwest. They ARE part of the American legacy.

Since you call me "clueless" should I fire back at you with an insult as well?

I'll resist.

A. The way these people now live, was typical at one time all across this country.

Our standard of living has moved, so now we consider them "extreme poverty".

B. Booming mining industries did attract people to these regions and now this industry

has been automated which left many jobless.

C. When we give housing, food and welfare payments to people living in isolated

places, we are insuring they have enough to get-by, therefor reducing the incentive

to leave.

If we had welfare programs back in the 1800's we'd still have communities where Ghost

Towns now stand from the bygone area of Cattle/ Gold/Timber.

D. when I referred to "automation" of this industry I was talking about equipment to extract, and

Handle mined material, not the Auto industry which to my knowledge has never

built cars in WV mountains.

Living off the Gov't has NOT been an American legacy, Unfortunately it fast is becoming one.