Trade a gun for a rose in SC on Valentine's Day

[Marilyn. 340]

so what I have learned from all this is that stats are only good when they prove your point...

[one...two...tree 2,762]

so what I have learned from all this is that stats are only good when they prove your point...

Again, if we were talking about building a pool in your backyard or some other potential safety hazard introduced into the home, nobody would be here arguing against taking precautionary measures to ensure the safety of our family. It is a false sense of safety to believe that having a firearm in your home will protect your family without acknowledging that under unfortunate circumstances, that very tool of protection could potentially harm or kill a family member.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

so what I have learned from all this is that stats are only good when they prove your point...

Bingo!

[NickD 202]

WI rejected that concealed weapon privilege even though states that had it had a reduced crime rate. But was wondering, if you are licensed to carry a concealed weapon, can you board an airliner with it?

What happens if you see a creepy looking guy reach in his coat pocket to grab his wallet when you think he is pulling a gun and shoot him first, do they say, that is okay?

Being frugal, prefer a bolt action rifle with a high powered scope where one bullet can do the job. A semi-automatic is not as accurate, and if it accidentally fires a second round, you could end up in jail. Wouldn't mine owning an AK-47 for it's historical value but that is also against the law. Semi-automatics will be next on that list.

[Scott & Lai 12]

WI rejected that concealed weapon privilege even though states that had it had a reduced crime rate. But was wondering, if you are licensed to carry a concealed weapon, can you board an airliner with it?

No, you can't.

What happens if you see a creepy looking guy reach in his coat pocket to grab his wallet when you think he is pulling a gun and shoot him first, do they say, that is okay?

No, that isn't okay....

Being frugal, prefer a bolt action rifle with a high powered scope where one bullet can do the job. A semi-automatic is not as accurate, and if it accidentally fires a second round, you could end up in jail. Wouldn't mine owning an AK-47 for it's historical value but that is also against the law. Semi-automatics will be next on that list.

Where are you getting your information on this? I've taken a number of gun courses taught by law-enforcement and military personnel, including a CCW class. Firing two shots in succession to the center of body mass is standard procedure, followed by a pause to assess the situation before firing again if necessary.

[Danno 1,228]

WI rejected that concealed weapon privilege even though states that had it had a reduced crime rate. But was wondering, if you are licensed to carry a concealed weapon, can you board an airliner with it?

What happens if you see a creepy looking guy reach in his coat pocket to grab his wallet when you think he is pulling a gun and shoot him first, do they say, that is okay?

Being frugal, prefer a bolt action rifle with a high powered scope where one bullet can do the job. A semi-automatic is not as accurate, and if it accidentally fires a second round, you could end up in jail. Wouldn't mine owning an AK-47 for it's historical value but that is also against the law. Semi-automatics will be next on that list.

I'm guessing if you are far enough away to use/ need a scope, you might have trouble explaining how your life was in danger enough to use deadly force.

[NickD 202]

Where are you getting your information on this? I've taken a number of gun courses taught by law-enforcement and military personnel, including a CCW class. Firing two shots in succession to the center of body mass is standard procedure, followed by a pause to assess the situation before firing again if necessary.

There is an ongoing court case going on in Milwaukee that I lost track of. A guy loaned his semi-automatic rifle to a friend that fired two shots at a shooting range with one pull of the trigger. I know this sounds entirely stupid, but the gun owner was arrested for possessing an assault rifle. Now I forgot the details of this rifle, but one of those where the firing mechanism could be worn to become a repeater or even filed down intentionally and that was the key issue. Owner claims it was worn. Like any other bit of news, made the headlines for a couple of days, then died.

I would never loan any of my guns out, don't care how good of a friend, ha, don't loan out my toothbrush nor wife either. But that semiautomatic defect hit home.

Would like to own an AK-47 for it's historic value and to learn if it's really as great as they say it is, but that is definitely against the law. Perhaps semiautomatics are next on the list followed by multiple cartridge bolt actions, followed by single shot models. Already jumping on any kind of a handgun.

The founders of our constitution made the right to own arms the 2nd amendment to the constitution only following the right to free speech mainly to prevent a police state. But just because some idiot goes crazy with a gun two thousand miles away, we have to suffer and lose our rights.

Ha, wife was troubled by having to say that oath where she would have to bear arms for this country, just commented, the way this country is going, probably would give you a mop stick, and a sawed off one with a blunt nose tip at that.

[Danno 1,228]

I saw this video which is excellent at explaining the difference between Assault Rifle and a standard Rifle.

After you see it, you will understand the trouble law makes have in crafting "assault weapons laws".

It's not really a pro-gun vid as much as it is a X-cop doing a demonstration for educational purposes.

This will help you contribute more accurately to any discussion about guns, no matter your position.

name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="

type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>">

name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="

type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350">

[Yoink 7]

AK-47 are not against the law.. my friends has one and I can go right now to the gun shop in town and buy one. The difference in being illegal is if the rifle can fire multiple rounds with one pull of the trigger. So they manufacture or adjust the rifles to be semi-automatic. But as any google search will show you even this is easily modified to allow full automatic... jsut don't get caught with it.

[justashooter 430]

AK-47 are not against the law.. my friends has one and I can go right now to the gun shop in town and buy one. The difference in being illegal is if the rifle can fire multiple rounds with one pull of the trigger. So they manufacture or adjust the rifles to be semi-automatic. But as any google search will show you even this is easily modified to allow full automatic... jsut don't get caught with it.

my friend, i am a well known amatuer gunsmith specialising in the AK platform, having manufactured or worked on hundreds of this type of guns, and i currently own about 20 AK. converting one to select fire is not easily done, and any such conversion leaves permanant evidence on the gun that can and will get you 10 years in club fed. "putting a match stick or a rubber band in the right place" is just internet bullshoot talk from arm chair commandos.

[NickD 202]

Here is the article I was referring too, this was also on our local TV news show.

"WEAPONS OF CHOICE

30 months in jail for broken gun

Judge hands down penalty for misfire from 20-year-old rifle

Posted: May 27, 2008

9:32 pm Eastern

© 2009 WorldNetDaily

A federal judge has ordered a 30-month prison sentence for a man whose rifle misfired, letting loose three shots at a firing range, prompting 2nd Amendment supporters to warn their constituents how easily they, too, can become a "gun felon."

"It didn't matter the rifle in question had not been intentionally modified for select fire, or that it did not have an M16 bolt carrier or sear, that it did not show any signs of machining or drilling, or that that model had even been recalled a few years back," said a commentary in Guns Magazine on the case against David R. Olofson, of Berlin, Wis.

"It didn't matter the government had repeatedly failed to replicate automatic fire until they replaced the ammunition with a softer primer type. It didn't even matter that the prosecution admitted it was not important to prove the gun would do it again if the test were conducted today," the magazine said. "What mattered was the government's position that none of the above was relevant because '[T]here's no indication it makes any difference under the statute. If you pull the trigger once and it fires more than one round, no matter what the cause it's a machine gun.'

"No matter what the cause.

"Think about if your semiauto ever malfunctions. Because that's how close you could be to becoming a convicted 'gun felon,'" the commentary said.

WND reported earlier when Olofson, a drill instructor in the National Guard, was convicted in a federal court for illegally transferring a machine gun.

The verdict came in the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Wisconsin.

An expert witness told WND the conviction means anyone whose weapon malfunctions is subject to charges of having or handling a banned gun.

(Story continues below)

GA_googleFillSlot("WND_NWS_C0200");

GA_googleFillSlot("WND_NWS_C0201");

"If your semiautomatic rifle breaks or malfunctions you are now subject to prosecution. That is now a sad FACT," wrote Len Savage, a weaponry expert who runs Historic Arms LLC.

"To those in the sporting culture who have derided 'black guns' and so-called 'assault weapons'; Your double barreled shotgun is now next up to be seized and you could possibly be prosecuted if the ATF can get it to 'fire more than once,'" he wrote in a blog run by Red's Trading Post.

"Hey, but don't worry," Savage said. "The people testing it have no procedures in writing and the testing will be in secret."

He said during an interview with Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership that Olofson had been instructing a man in the use of guns, and the student asked to borrow a rifle for some shooting practice.

"Mr. Olofson was nice enough to accommodate him," Savage said. So the student, Robert Kiernicki, went to a range and fired about 120 rounds. "He went to put in another magazine and the rifle shot three times, then jammed."

The Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel said Olofson, 36, is free until he gets a letter notifying of his date to report for confinement, and his lawyer, Brian Fahl, promised an immediate appeal with the help of the National Rifle Association.

He said the rifle, which was subject to a manufacturer's recall because of mechanical problems at one point, malfunctioned because of the way it was made.

But he also warned of the potential problems from broken guns.

"If you have a multiple firing, it looks like you can be prosecuted," he told the newspaper.

The judge, Charles Clevert, said he believed Olofson knew about the gun, or should have.

"This was a man who has considerable knowledge of weapons, considerable knowledge of machine guns," Clevert said, according to the Journal-Sentinel. "Mr. Olofson, in this court's view, has shown he was ignoring the law."

Prosecutors said Olofson loaned the Olympic Arms gun to Kiernicki, whose burst of three shots prompted federal investigators to confiscate the gun for testing.

Savage said once the government got the gun, things got worse.

"They examined and test fired the rifle; then declared it to be 'just a rifle,'" Savage said. "You would think it would all be resolved at this point, this was merely the beginning."

He said the Special Agent in Charge, Jody Keeku, asked for a re-test and specified that the tests use "soft primered commercial ammunition."

"FTB has no standardized testing procedures, in fact it has no written procedures at all for testing firearms," Savage said. "They had no standard to stick to, and gleefully tried again. The results this time...'a machinegun.' ATF with a self-admitted 50 percent error rate pursued an indictment and Mr. Olofson was charged with 'Unlawful transfer of a machinegun.'. Not possession, not even Robert Kiernicki was charged with possession (who actually possessed the rifle), though the ATF paid Mr. Kiernicki 'an undisclosed amount of money' to testify against Mr. Olofson at trial," Savage said.

And then during the trial, the prosecution told the judge it would not provide some information defense lawyers felt would clear their client, Savage continued. That included the fact that the rifle's manufacturer had been issued a recall notice for that very model in 1986 over an issue of guns inadvertently slipping into full automatic mode, if certain parts were worn or if certain ammunition was used.

Olofson eventually was convicted of and now sentenced for transferring a machine gun.

WND also reported bloggers had a heyday when a federal agent apparently assigned to the same office that did the Olofson investigation left her gun inside the secured area at Milwaukee's airport.

The incident had gotten only nominal publicity, with mostly local reporters carrying the story. According to the Associated Press, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives agent, who was not identified by authorities, left her gun in the restroom at the conclusion of a long trip.

The special agent alerted authorities at some time later, after she had left the airport, according to Guy Thomas, a spokesman. He said the abandoned gun was recovered either by local authorities or a civilian."

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=65455

New Berlin is only ten miles west of Milwaukee, if it wasn't for the city limit signs, you wouldn't know if you left Milwaukee or not. I thought it was an M-16, this refreshed my memory. Do recall Olofson's attorney talking on the news, he was an idiot, thought they said it fired just a second round, this article says a total of three rounds were fired.

Recalling "David R. Olofson" name and typing that in google reveals over 300 articles on this subject.

"There is no state preemption of firearm laws. Some municipalities, most notably Chicago, require that all firearms be registered with the local police department.^[62] Chicago does not allow the registration of handguns, which has the effect of outlawing their possession, unless they were grandfathered in by being registered before April 16, 1982." From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_t...ates_(by_state) to add to the confusion about gun laws and how they can vary from even city to city not to mention state to state.

Quite a bit more complex than what our forefathers wrote, "a well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Lots of infringing going on.

Yeah, I know the difference between a semi and fully automatic gun, just make damn sure your semi is semi.

[Ban Hammer 13,337]

there's a lot wrong with that. borrow a firearm from someone, have it shoot 3 times in front of witnesses, and you're neck is on the chopping block.

[justashooter 430]

there's a lot wrong with that. borrow a firearm from someone, have it shoot 3 times in front of witnesses, and you're neck is on the chopping block.

the olofson case is a little more complicated than the article states. there is a backstory regarding olofson.

olympic arms AR15 rifles were manufactured until about 1988 using M16 bolts and fire control groups that are not suitable for use in an AR15. my olympics no longer have the M16 parts. trouble is, those that do are not technically illegal, and can accidentally land you in the klink. conviction should depend on intent and knowledge, but in this case it does not. a bad judgement in the conviction, in my opinion. the judgement is being appealed.

Len Savage is a friend of mine, and he knows better, but has been called as expert witness to many cases. He has a major bug up his patooty for the ATF because they shut part of his business down in regard to conversion of past machine guns into semi-auto rifles. I am talking about maxims and such fixed position GPMG from the first war and just thereafter. he has a lawsuit in play addressing these issues.

the atf does not have standardised testing procedures, and refuses to allow video documentation of testing. their records are a mess, and their tactics sometimes draconian. that being said, some ATF tecs like are great guys and good to deal with, very professional.

[Ban Hammer 13,337]

I saw this video which is excellent at explaining the difference between Assault Rifle and a standard Rifle.

After you see it, you will understand the trouble law makes have in crafting "assault weapons laws".

It's not really a pro-gun vid as much as it is a X-cop doing a demonstration for educational purposes.

This will help you contribute more accurately to any discussion about guns, no matter your position.

name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="

type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>">

name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="

type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350">

very good video, i suggest everyone watch it.