Trade a gun for a rose in SC on Valentine's Day

one...two...tree · February 16, 2009

My point of showing those stats is to counter the argument that keeping firearms in your home makes it more safe.

....and what's silly is we wouldn't even be having this argument if we were talking about buidling a pool in your backyard, for example.

Again, if someone chooses to exercise their right to own firearms, I'm all for it. But don't think that because you have a gun in your home, your home is safer than someone who doesn't have one.

luckytxn · February 16, 2009

Ok I will cut and paste some random stats too. Of course you did not show where the wives shot their partner or husband. Also the many times that a gun saved a wife or husband from being harmed. So let me go onto google and start just cut and pasting a bunch of random supposed stats. Be back.

Read the stats, Tex. It's all there.

As someone who has taken numerous statistics courses, I can say that stats mean relatively nothing -- unless you know exactly where the information came from, how it was collected, who collected it, who's sponsoring the collection, and why it's been gathered in the first place. Otherwise, anyone can make up -- or tinker with --whatever stats they want.

For crying outloud....it must be Monday and some of you forgot your eye glasses...

A gun is the most commonly used weapon in domestic homicide. In 1998, more than four times as many women were murdered with a gun by their husbands or intimate partners than were killed by strangers' guns, knives or other weapons combined (Violence Policy Center; When Men Murder Women: An Analysis of 1998 Homicide Data: Females Murdered by Males in Single Victim/Single Offender Incidents; 2000). In addition, nearly 1/3 of all women murdered in the United States in 1998 were killed by a current or former intimate partner. Guns were used in almost 2/3 of these domestic homicides (U.S. Department of Justice Bureau of Justice Statistics; Homicide Trends in the U.S., Intimate Partner Homicide; 2001).

In 1998, 808 women were shot and killed by their husbands or intimate acquaintances (U.S. Department of Justice Bureau of Justice Statistics; Homicide Trends in the U.S., Intimate Partner Homicide; 2001). The presence of a gun dramatically increases the chance a domestic violence incident will end in murder. One study found that, in Atlanta, family and intimate assaults involving guns were 12 times more likely to result in death than family and intimate assaults not involving guns (L. Saltzman, et.al; Weapon Involvement and Injury Outcomes in Family and Intimate Assaults; 1992).

In 1998, for every time a woman used a handgun to kill an intimate partner in self-defense, 83 women were murdered by an intimate partner with a handgun (Violence Policy Center; When Men Murder Women: An Analysis of 1998 Homicide Data: Females Murdered by Males in Single Victim/Single Offender Incidents; 2000).

Domestic violence misdemeanor convictions and restraining orders were the second most common reason for denials of handgun purchase applications (U.S. Department of Justice Bureau of Justice Statistics; A National Estimate: Presale Handgun Checks, the Brady Interim Period, 1994-98; 1999).

Well, actually... my glasses do need be cleaned. But that's neither here nor there. The point I was attempting to make is that stats can be filtered to present whatever you wish. That doesn't mean they're necessarily invalid, but just because a statistic says something, that doesn't mean that's the "end all, be all" of the topic.

It may have been my fault to pool. I was trying to say the same thing to him but not as well as you. He was showing one small stat from many others that could have shown his stat to be insignificant if shown in a larger context. I did place a link last night that will show a larger context so he can go read and better understand.

tmma · February 16, 2009

Statistically speaking stabbings are a real possibility too-we have a really great set of Henckel (sp) knives right out there in the kitchen . Hmmm...could be dangerous; better stick them in the gun safe. :thumbs:

Edited February 16, 2009 by tmma

I AM NOT THAT GUY · February 16, 2009

one...two...tree · February 16, 2009

Statistically speaking stabbings are a real possibility too-we have a really great set of Henckel (sp) knives right out there in the kitchen . Hmmm...could be dangerous; better stick them in the gun safe.

No...but when it comes to home safety, everyone who is concerned about safety (if that is the primary reason for owning a firearm) take appropriate measures to make the home safe for everyone. It's just too bad that statistics show how many gun owners are negligent with their own family's safety.

luckytxn · February 16, 2009

Statistically speaking stabbings are a real possibility too-we have a really great set of Henckel (sp) knives right out there in the kitchen . Hmmm...could be dangerous; better stick them in the gun safe.

No...but when it comes to home safety, everyone who is concerned about safety (if that is the primary reason for owning a firearm) take appropriate measures to make the home safe for everyone. It's just too bad that statistics show how many gun owners are negligent with their own family's safety.

Actually the stats show that gun owners are saving their families from being harmed and being responsible by protecting their families.

tmma · February 16, 2009

Statistically speaking stabbings are a real possibility too-we have a really great set of Henckel (sp) knives right out there in the kitchen . Hmmm...could be dangerous; better stick them in the gun safe.

No...but when it comes to home safety, everyone who is concerned about safety (if that is the primary reason for owning a firearm) take appropriate measures to make the home safe for everyone. It's just too bad that statistics show how many gun owners are negligent with their own family's safety.

The statistics show that the over whelming majority of owners ARE concerned about safety--and are certainly not negligent when it comes to their own family's safety.

I'm busy, so I'll butt out now.

Caladan · February 16, 2009

I wouldn't carry around here, even though live in an urban area with a fair amount of street crime, mostly because I can't see shooting someone over a mugging, and one shouldn't carry a gun if one is not mentally prepared to use it.
In a rural area I'd absolutely want a firearm. Too far from help, in some cases there are cougars and coyotes and things.

exactly the situation i have here.

Exactly the one C. had growing up, too. He used to use a .22 to shoot gophers because his family owned horses and gophers dig holes that are dangerous to horse ankles. Twelve years old. Ten cents a gopher tail. 50 rounds in a box. 4.75 a box.

NickD · February 16, 2009

I stocked up after 9/11, but didn't have to use it yet, kids are gone, as are the safety measures, but we got on safety at home issue. But would like any terrorists to know publicly, that I am ready.

Trying to think what I have around here that I would trade for a rose that will be dead in a couple of days, do have a bag of dog #######. The guy that makes that stuff thinks he is on guard duty 24/7, but can be very nice if people are friendly. So I don't lock him up in a safe. Wouldn't want to piss him off either, the way he can snap a large bone in half.

We lived out in the sticks, like taking a walk on a gravel road to the creek with my family, but idiots driving 70+ mph were kicking stones in our face. One a$$hole tried to hit my dog, but ran into the ditch, he wasn't so big out of his pile of chit truck. So I started carrying an unloaded pellet rifle with me, looked like a 30.06, that really slowed them down. Sheriff saw me and asked me why, showed him the gun and told him why, he suggested I carry a loaded double barrel 12 ga shotgun.

Scott & Lai · February 16, 2009

(You can deny the fact, but these statistics are very real and very telling)
A gun is the most commonly used weapon in domestic homicide. In 1998, more than four times as many women were murdered with a gun by their husbands or intimate partners than were killed by strangers' guns, knives or other weapons combined (Violence Policy Center; When Men Murder Women: An Analysis of 1998 Homicide Data: Females Murdered by Males in Single Victim/Single Offender Incidents; 2000). In addition, nearly 1/3 of all women murdered in the United States in 1998 were killed by a current or former intimate partner. Guns were used in almost 2/3 of these domestic homicides (U.S. Department of Justice Bureau of Justice Statistics; Homicide Trends in the U.S., Intimate Partner Homicide; 2001).

In 1998, 808 women were shot and killed by their husbands or intimate acquaintances (U.S. Department of Justice Bureau of Justice Statistics; Homicide Trends in the U.S., Intimate Partner Homicide; 2001). The presence of a gun dramatically increases the chance a domestic violence incident will end in murder. One study found that, in Atlanta, family and intimate assaults involving guns were 12 times more likely to result in death than family and intimate assaults not involving guns (L. Saltzman, et.al; Weapon Involvement and Injury Outcomes in Family and Intimate Assaults; 1992).

In 1998, for every time a woman used a handgun to kill an intimate partner in self-defense, 83 women were murdered by an intimate partner with a handgun (Violence Policy Center; When Men Murder Women: An Analysis of 1998 Homicide Data: Females Murdered by Males in Single Victim/Single Offender Incidents; 2000).

Domestic violence misdemeanor convictions and restraining orders were the second most common reason for denials of handgun purchase applications (U.S. Department of Justice Bureau of Justice Statistics; A National Estimate: Presale Handgun Checks, the Brady Interim Period, 1994-98; 1999).

Steven, what this shows is that in cases of domestic homicide, a gun is the preferred weapon. It doesn't actually answer the question of how likely it is a gun in the home will be used in a domestic homicide either intentionally or accidentally. For that, you would have to know how many homes have guns, and out of that number how many times is a gun used in a domestic homicide.

one...two...tree · February 16, 2009

(You can deny the fact, but these statistics are very real and very telling)
A gun is the most commonly used weapon in domestic homicide. In 1998, more than four times as many women were murdered with a gun by their husbands or intimate partners than were killed by strangers' guns, knives or other weapons combined (Violence Policy Center; When Men Murder Women: An Analysis of 1998 Homicide Data: Females Murdered by Males in Single Victim/Single Offender Incidents; 2000). In addition, nearly 1/3 of all women murdered in the United States in 1998 were killed by a current or former intimate partner. Guns were used in almost 2/3 of these domestic homicides (U.S. Department of Justice Bureau of Justice Statistics; Homicide Trends in the U.S., Intimate Partner Homicide; 2001).

In 1998, 808 women were shot and killed by their husbands or intimate acquaintances (U.S. Department of Justice Bureau of Justice Statistics; Homicide Trends in the U.S., Intimate Partner Homicide; 2001). The presence of a gun dramatically increases the chance a domestic violence incident will end in murder. One study found that, in Atlanta, family and intimate assaults involving guns were 12 times more likely to result in death than family and intimate assaults not involving guns (L. Saltzman, et.al; Weapon Involvement and Injury Outcomes in Family and Intimate Assaults; 1992).

In 1998, for every time a woman used a handgun to kill an intimate partner in self-defense, 83 women were murdered by an intimate partner with a handgun (Violence Policy Center; When Men Murder Women: An Analysis of 1998 Homicide Data: Females Murdered by Males in Single Victim/Single Offender Incidents; 2000).

Domestic violence misdemeanor convictions and restraining orders were the second most common reason for denials of handgun purchase applications (U.S. Department of Justice Bureau of Justice Statistics; A National Estimate: Presale Handgun Checks, the Brady Interim Period, 1994-98; 1999).

Steven, what this shows is that in cases of domestic homicide, a gun is the preferred weapon. It doesn't actually answer the question of how likely it is a gun in the home will be used in a domestic homicide either intentionally or accidentally. For that, you would have to know how many homes have guns, and out of that number how many times is a gun used in a domestic homicide.

I'll try to find out if there are any numbers on that, but I'm certain I've read that overwhelmingly, in cases of domestic homicide, the gun used was legally owned - and what I think that shows is that, one - not everyone has the right temperament to handle the responsibility of owning a gun and two, that the very thing which was bought for protecting is the very tool used to harm those who were being supposedly protected by it.

I don't think it takes rocket science to see if I were to buy a table saw and used it in my garage, while it may be very useful, it brings with it a potential safety hazard to my family. It's the same with having a firearm in the house. While I would agree, in certain situations, a gun could potentially protect you and your family, it also exposes everyone in the house with a potential safety hazard - and therefore, responsible ownership should go along with it.

Edited February 16, 2009 by Mister Fancypants

luckytxn · February 16, 2009

By Larry Elder

Forty-six-year-old Joyce Cordoba stood behind the deli counter while working at a Wal-Mart in Albuquerque, N.M. Suddenly, her ex-husband – against whom Ms. Cordoba had a restraining order – showed up, jumped over the deli counter, and began stabbing Ms. Cordoba. Due Moore, a 72-year-old Wal-Mart customer, witnessed the violent attack. Moore, legally permitted to carry a concealed weapon, pulled out his gun, and shot and killed the ex-husband. Ms. Cordoba survived the brutal attack and is recovering from her wounds.

This raises a question. How often do Americans use guns for defensive purposes? We know that in 2003, 12,548 people died through non-suicide gun violence, including homicides, accidents and cases of undetermined intent.

UCLA professor emeritus James Q. Wilson, a respected expert on crime, police practices and guns, says, "We know from Census Bureau surveys that something beyond a hundred thousand uses of guns for self-defense occur every year. We know from smaller surveys of a commercial nature that the number may be as high as 2-and-a-half or 3 million. We don't know what the right number is, but whatever the right number is, it's not a trivial number."

Criminologist and researcher Gary Kleck, using his own commissioned phone surveys and number extrapolation, estimates that 2.5 million Americans use guns for defensive purposes each year. He further found that of those who had used guns defensively, one in six believed someone would have been dead if they had not resorted to their defensive use of firearms. That corresponds to approximately 400,000 of Kleck's estimated 2.5 million defensive gun uses. Kleck points out that if only one-tenth of the people were right about saving a life, the number of people saved annually by guns would still be at least 40,000.

The Department of Justice's own National Institute of Justice study titled "Guns in America: National Survey on Private Ownership and Use of Firearms," estimated that 1.5 million Americans use guns for defensive purposes every year. Although the government's figure estimated a million fewer people defensively using guns, the NIJ called their figure "directly comparable" to Kleck's, noting that "it is statistically plausible that the difference is due to sampling error." Furthermore, the NIJ reported that half of their respondents who said they used a gun defensively also admitted having done so multiple times a year – making the number of estimated uses of self-defense with a gun 4.7 million times annually.

Former assistant district attorney and firearms expert David Kopel writes, "... [W]hen a robbery victim does not defend himself, the robber succeeds 88 percent of the time, and the victim is injured 25 percent of the time. When a victim resists with a gun, the robbery success rate falls to 30 percent, and the victim injury rate falls to 17 percent. No other response to a robbery – from drawing a knife to shouting for help to fleeing – produces such low rates of victim injury and robbery success."

What do "gun-control activists" say?

The Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence's website displays this oft-quoted "fact": "The risk of homicide in the home is three times greater in households with guns." Their website fails to mention that Dr. Arthur Kellermann, the "expert" who came up with that figure, later backpedaled after others discredited his studies for failing to follow standard scientific procedures. According to the Wall Street Journal, Dr. Kellermann now concedes, "A gun can be used to scare away an intruder without a shot being fired," admitting that he failed to include such events in his original study. "Simply keeping a gun in the home," Kellermann says, "may deter some criminals who fear confronting an armed homeowner." He adds, "It is possible that reverse causation accounted for some of the association we observed between gun ownership and homicide – i.e., in a limited number of cases, people may have acquired a gun in response to a specific threat."

"More Guns, Less Crime" author John Lott points out that, in general, our mainstream media fails to inform the public about defensive uses of guns. "Hardly a day seems to go by," writes Lott, "without national news coverage of yet another shooting. Yet when was the last time you heard a story on the national evening news about a citizen saving a life with a gun? ... An innocent person's murder is more newsworthy than when a victim brandishes a gun and an attacker runs away with no crime committed ... ad events provide emotionally gripping pictures. Yet covering only the bad events creates the impression that guns only cost lives."

Americans, in part due to mainstream media's anti-gun bias, dramatically underestimate the defensive uses of guns. Some, after using a gun for self-defense, fear that the police may charge them for violating some law or ordinance about firearm possession and use. So many Americans simply do not tell the authorities.

A gunned-down bleeding guy creates news. A man who spared his family by brandishing a handgun, well, that's just water-cooler chat.

luckytxn · February 16, 2009

Check out this link:

http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp

Ban Hammer · February 16, 2009

next up - refute the study you posted by attacking the source. :thumbs:

NickD · February 16, 2009

next up - refute the study you posted by attacking the source.

Ha.

Statistics prove, prove that you've one birthday,

one birthday ev'ry year.

But there are three hundred and sixty four

unbirthdays.

That is why we're gathered here to cheer.

A very merry unbirthday to you, to you.

A very merry unbirthday to you,

It's great to drink to someone and I guess that you will do.

A very merry unbirthday to you

With guns, a degree of common sense is required and one rotten apple in the field, spoils the entire orchard.

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Trade a gun for a rose in SC on Valentine's Day

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