TN Travel *before* wedding?

[Phil80 0]

(I posted this in the AOS forum but this is probably a better spot for it)

So I got engaged after I got my TN visa renewed (with non-immigrant intent). This means that I currently have a TN-1 visa with multiple re-entry. I'm getting married March 21 2009. After which I'll be adjusting my status. I'd like to travel to Canada March 7th and was wondering if its advisable to leave the country and come back in so close to the wedding date.

Basically will it hurt my chances to file for AOS?

[TheATeam 0]

I would say that the answer is yes as you're entering the country with intent to marry which can make AOS very difficult afterwards as you need to prove that you had no intent to marry/immigrate when you entered the country.

I'm not an expert though, but I'm sure there are others who will come along and help answer your question. I think it would be best if you stayed in the US until after AOS, just to be on the safe side.

[MacPara 0]

Hm, I posted this before and it seems it got lost....

Phil, I seriously think you shouldn't leave the US before filing for AOS and receiving your Advance Parole documents. The TN is a non-immigrant visa and even it has a reentry option (which my J-1 had, too), I was told by my attorney that every time you enter the US you have to not have an intent to immigrate when you use this kind of visa for the admission.

As you said you already planned the wedding and even the AOS procedure afterwards, leaving the US and reentering before the wedding date is definitely violating this rule. And as it would happen so close to the wedding day, the AO will probably interrogate you guys about that and chances are that you could get denied the AOS and they might charge you with visa fraud on your last admission which then will get you into real trouble.

If you can somehow avoid this trip, just avoid it and wait some months until you get the AP docs.

Torsten.

Edited February 12, 2009 by MacPara

[Flames9_RN 358]

http://www.canuckabroad.com/forums/canadia...he-usa-vf4.html

Might get some more answers on the above site, as that site is geared more towards TN visas!

[warlord 73]

You are fine since you are on a TN status. You have not applied for AOS so there is nothing to worry about. As long as you have the TN status you can come and go as much as you like. Nothing will be mentioned of the upcomming wedding and there won't be any questions to you about is as you are on a valid status. This applies to people that are on non-immigrant visas as well, as long as those people have their proper visa (or staus depending on the type) then there is nothing to worry about.

After you get married and file for AOS, then you will not want to travel anywhere until the AP document comes in which will allow you to leave the country...

[Phil80 0]

You are fine since you are on a TN status. You have not applied for AOS so there is nothing to worry about. As long as you have the TN status you can come and go as much as you like. Nothing will be mentioned of the upcomming wedding and there won't be any questions to you about is as you are on a valid status. This applies to people that are on non-immigrant visas as well, as long as those people have their proper visa (or staus depending on the type) then there is nothing to worry about.

After you get married and file for AOS, then you will not want to travel anywhere until the AP document comes in which will allow you to leave the country...

Ok... so I'm getting conflicting answers:

1) My Visa is a non-immigrant intent visa. If I leave the country and come back in on the same visa with immigrant intent I'm committing fraud and this will be caught when I apply to adjust my status. So the problem won't be when I re-enter the country but when I apply for AOS 2 weeks later (after the wedding).

2) Since I applied for the Visa in October and was issued the visa without a problem that Visa is good until I apply for AOS. Technically I could leave and come back in the country every day until the wedding date, at which time I'd apply for AOS and have to wait for my AP.

I'm just confused as to which one it is? I'm going to try that other board that was posted with this same question.

[trailmix 77]

You are fine since you are on a TN status. You have not applied for AOS so there is nothing to worry about. As long as you have the TN status you can come and go as much as you like. Nothing will be mentioned of the upcomming wedding and there won't be any questions to you about is as you are on a valid status. This applies to people that are on non-immigrant visas as well, as long as those people have their proper visa (or staus depending on the type) then there is nothing to worry about.

After you get married and file for AOS, then you will not want to travel anywhere until the AP document comes in which will allow you to leave the country...

Ok... so I'm getting conflicting answers:

1) My Visa is a non-immigrant intent visa. If I leave the country and come back in on the same visa with immigrant intent I'm committing fraud and this will be caught when I apply to adjust my status. So the problem won't be when I re-enter the country but when I apply for AOS 2 weeks later (after the wedding).

2) Since I applied for the Visa in October and was issued the visa without a problem that Visa is good until I apply for AOS. Technically I could leave and come back in the country every day until the wedding date, at which time I'd apply for AOS and have to wait for my AP.

I'm just confused as to which one it is? I'm going to try that other board that was posted with this same question.

Yes, conflicting answers.

The reason for that is that no one here really knows (what the actual legal implications are).

I will give you an example I know of with regard to a TN visa and adjusting status.

Someone I know worked in the U.S. for around 8 years on a TN visa. During that time his wife found out she had a claim to U.S. citizenship, applied for documentation on this and received it.

They went back to Canada - as they did every year, to renew the TN. The last time they did the renewal they knew full well that they were going to apply for his AOS when they returned to the U.S. Is that visa fraud? He had a visa approved to say he could be in the U.S. working - does a plan to adjust status negate that?

I will be interested to know what you find out.

Oh and his AOS was successful, no problems and he now has his green card.

Edited February 13, 2009 by trailmix

[Saddle Bronc 124]

Hm, I posted this before and it seems it got lost....

Phil, I seriously think you shouldn't leave the US before filing for AOS and receiving your Advance Parole documents. The TN is a non-immigrant visa and even it has a reentry option (which my J-1 had, too), I was told by my attorney that every time you enter the US you have to not have an intent to immigrate when you use this kind of visa for the admission.

As you said you already planned the wedding and even the AOS procedure afterwards, leaving the US and reentering before the wedding date is definitely violating this rule. And as it would happen so close to the wedding day, the AO will probably interrogate you guys about that and chances are that you could get denied the AOS and they might charge you with visa fraud on your last admission which then will get you into real trouble.

If you can somehow avoid this trip, just avoid it and wait some months until you get the AP docs.

Torsten.

Actually, Phil is planning a trip to Canada (and return to US) prior to the marriage.

It's technically legal and doesn't require AP....but he does run the risk of running into a CBP official who may deny him entry because of his marriage intent. Basically, he should not volunteer that info.

[Saddle Bronc 124]

So, my advice to Phil is: go for the trip, and don't volunteer the info about the marriage (and don't carry incriminating documents back into US such as wedding invites) to the CBP official (presumably at a PFI).

[Phil80 0]

So, my advice to Phil is: go for the trip, and don't volunteer the info about the marriage (and don't carry incriminating documents back into US such as wedding invites) to the CBP official (presumably at a PFI).

So basically we're saying that I can go across the border and so long as I don't (a) tell them straight up it was for a bachelor party and (B) they don't directly ask me if I have an intent to immigrate or apply for AOS it should be ok?

This helps in another regard: My grandma is sick, had a bad stroke not too long ago. I'm concerned that if she dies before the wedding it would hurt my AOS claim (I'm also worried for her health but this forum isn't a 'my grandma is sick' forum).

[warlord 73]

Since I have been on the TN status (it is not a visa, there is no such thing as a TN visa) process through marriage to citizenship I do know how the process is. You are on a TN Status and it is active. When you cross the border you are not married. It doesn't matter if you are going to marry down the road or not, you are on a TN status which is your authorized document for being allowed back into the US to work.

Always when crossing the border you never regardless of your status you only answer what is asked from you. They will want to see your proper documents visa or status or green card etc. You show them your TN, they may ask you a few questions like where you work, how long you've been away etc. They are not going to ask randomly if you are getting married at any time in the near future at all.

I was with my girlfried before we got married when we flew to Canada for a trip. Both of us together at the checkpoint at the airport, she hands in her US passport, I had in my TN status. The person can clearly see we're dating (but not married since no rings) and boom that's it we're in.

The reason is because I was still on a valid status. Nothing changes until you actually get married. The only way fraud would be commited would be if you attempted to apply for a TN status AFTER you were already married to your US spouse...

[Phil80 0]

Since I have been on the TN status (it is not a visa, there is no such thing as a TN visa) process through marriage to citizenship I do know how the process is. You are on a TN Status and it is active. When you cross the border you are not married. It doesn't matter if you are going to marry down the road or not, you are on a TN status which is your authorized document for being allowed back into the US to work.

Always when crossing the border you never regardless of your status you only answer what is asked from you. They will want to see your proper documents visa or status or green card etc. You show them your TN, they may ask you a few questions like where you work, how long you've been away etc. They are not going to ask randomly if you are getting married at any time in the near future at all.

I was with my girlfried before we got married when we flew to Canada for a trip. Both of us together at the checkpoint at the airport, she hands in her US passport, I had in my TN status. The person can clearly see we're dating (but not married since no rings) and boom that's it we're in.

The reason is because I was still on a valid status. Nothing changes until you actually get married. The only way fraud would be commited would be if you attempted to apply for a TN status AFTER you were already married to your US spouse...

THANK YOU!

This was also bugging me because I just realized we did the same thing over christmas break. We crossed the border at the same time and everything when we went to my parents for the holidays.

[trailmix 77]

Since I have been on the TN status (it is not a visa, there is no such thing as a TN visa) process through marriage to citizenship I do know how the process is. You are on a TN Status and it is active. When you cross the border you are not married. It doesn't matter if you are going to marry down the road or not, you are on a TN status which is your authorized document for being allowed back into the US to work.

Always when crossing the border you never regardless of your status you only answer what is asked from you. They will want to see your proper documents visa or status or green card etc. You show them your TN, they may ask you a few questions like where you work, how long you've been away etc. They are not going to ask randomly if you are getting married at any time in the near future at all.

I was with my girlfried before we got married when we flew to Canada for a trip. Both of us together at the checkpoint at the airport, she hands in her US passport, I had in my TN status. The person can clearly see we're dating (but not married since no rings) and boom that's it we're in.

The reason is because I was still on a valid status. Nothing changes until you actually get married. The only way fraud would be commited would be if you attempted to apply for a TN status AFTER you were already married to your US spouse...

Hi Warlord,

In fact that is what USCIS calls it - a 'visa'.

When I posted before, btw, I wasn't taking a dig at you warlord - just want to clarify that.

What I am saying is that I don't think that anyone here can tell the OP - with 100% certainty, that if he leaves the U.S. now, that he will be allowed back in. My understanding is that the TN holder must maintain nonimmigrant intent throughout their stay. The OP cannot claim this now.

Sure he can probably go back to Canada for a visit and probably he won't have any trouble at the border - but what if he does, you can't really take responsibility for that, so i'm unclear why you would advise that he do this? What if they don't let him back in - then he and his fiancee/wife will be separated for a year while he does the processing in Canada.

Phil, this looks like a pretty good site you might want to have a look at.

1. TN Visa Professionals & Nonimmigrant Intent.

A TN visa professional must maintain bona fide nonimmigrant intent throughout the TN professional's stay in the United States. The regulations provide that a TN applicant cannot intend to establish permanent residence in the U.S. and must satisfy immigration officials that the proposed stay is temporary and has a finite end. See 8 C.F.R. § 214.6 B. This means the TN professional must intend to depart the U.S. at the conclusion of the TN employment. At the moment a Canadian citizen applies for a new TN or an extension of or change to TN status, the applicant cannot intend to remain permanently in the U.S. after the TN is approved.

Edited February 13, 2009 by trailmix

[Saddle Bronc 124]

So, my advice to Phil is: go for the trip, and don't volunteer the info about the marriage (and don't carry incriminating documents back into US such as wedding invites) to the CBP official (presumably at a PFI).

So basically we're saying that I can go across the border and so long as I don't (a) tell them straight up it was for a bachelor party and (B ) they don't directly ask me if I have an intent to immigrate or apply for AOS it should be ok?

As warlord answered these, ...

This helps in another regard: My grandma is sick, had a bad stroke not too long ago. I'm concerned that if she dies before the wedding it would hurt my AOS claim (I'm also worried for her health but this forum isn't a 'my grandma is sick' forum).

No bearing whatsoever; you need to be in the US to file an AOS.

[MsZ 6]

I think the intent to marry and adjust status trumps the TN. This is skating on the hairy edge of fraud if you ask me. That you can do it and get away with it doesn't mean that it is within the spirit of the law.