Abortion debate

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

oh wow..I must say that is surprising. That child carries half the father genes. The father should have a say in this.

That would imply that he should have some right of ownership over the woman's body.

He doesn't.

Rights over the woman's body...no. I agree with you. But the CHILD'S body is not the mother's nor the father's OR its BOTH the mother's and the father's.

It belongs to the mother - who has to carry it to term. Hence its ultimately her decision whether or not to go through with it.

Edited February 8, 2009 by Paul Daniels

[HAL 9000 96]

But I'm not religious. I don't quantify my statements with "God made us all" and use that as a reason for allowing children to be born into a world where they will only know pain and suffering.

And there is no correlation between the situation of an elderly person and a fetus.

Just remember that since atoms and its components are alive, the electrons being shuffled back and forth between your PC/MAC and the VJ servers are being terribly inconvenienced. And should the energy involved in said movements become great enough... they will even come off parts of the pathway and DIE.

We should be outraged and outlaw since this is murder.

and what happens when the mother chooses to abort.......even if they father does not want it so? What are HIS rights?

None.

There's a reason why its called woman's choice.

oh wow..I must say that is surprising. That child carries half the father genes. The father should have a say in this.

How can a woman force a man 1)INTO fatherhood and 2)OUT of fatherhood!?!?!?!?!?

So the developing child should also get a say in wanting a combination of genes from mom and dad then.

If a mother chooses to abort, and dad don't approve, then move onto another mate that still lives in the 1950s.

[Ban Hammer 13,337]

oh wow..I must say that is surprising. That child carries half the father genes. The father should have a say in this.

How can a woman force a man 1)INTO fatherhood and 2)OUT of fatherhood!?!?!?!?!?

welcome to the strange court system of the usa

[Boorai 0]

Then father's should have the right to refuse parental obligation AFTER birth...no, i don't endorse this.

but you argument that its "woman's choice" and the father has no rights...then he should not be forced into fatherhood. Your argument gives the woman all power and rights with pregnancy and birth. Let's not forget that the fathe IS involved in the process and has rights as well.

its simply a bias that cannot exist.

[HAL 9000 96]

Then father's should have the right to refuse parental obligation AFTER birth...no, i don't endorse this.

but you argument that its "woman's choice" and the father has no rights...then he should not be forced into fatherhood. Your argument gives the woman all power and rights with pregnancy and birth. Let's not forget that the fathe IS involved in the process and has rights as well.

its simply a bias that cannot exist.

Well no sh!t. Let me know when fathers get the chance to carry a pregnancy to term. Then we'll be talking about a lack of bias.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Then father's should have the right to refuse parental obligation AFTER birth...no, i don't endorse this.

but you argument that its "woman's choice" and the father has no rights...then he should not be forced into fatherhood. Your argument gives the woman all power and rights with pregnancy and birth. Let's not forget that the fathe IS involved in the process and has rights as well.

its simply a bias that cannot exist.

He doesn't have rights over the pregnancy, that's all there is to it.

[Sprailenes 47]

Then father's should have the right to refuse parental obligation AFTER birth...no, i don't endorse this.

but you argument that its "woman's choice" and the father has no rights...then he should not be forced into fatherhood. Your argument gives the woman all power and rights with pregnancy and birth. Let's not forget that the fathe IS involved in the process and has rights as well.

its simply a bias that cannot exist.

Well it does exist.

Yay for having control over MY body.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Then father's should have the right to refuse parental obligation AFTER birth...no, i don't endorse this.

but you argument that its "woman's choice" and the father has no rights...then he should not be forced into fatherhood. Your argument gives the woman all power and rights with pregnancy and birth. Let's not forget that the fathe IS involved in the process and has rights as well.

its simply a bias that cannot exist.

Well no sh!t. Let me know when fathers get the chance to carry a pregnancy to term. Then we'll be talking about a lack of bias.

No kidding. I mean its not as though the legal "bias" has anything to do with the biological one.

Only women can have babies?! UNFAIR!!!

Edited February 8, 2009 by Paul Daniels

[HAL 9000 96]

Then father's should have the right to refuse parental obligation AFTER birth...no, i don't endorse this.

but you argument that its "woman's choice" and the father has no rights...then he should not be forced into fatherhood. Your argument gives the woman all power and rights with pregnancy and birth. Let's not forget that the fathe IS involved in the process and has rights as well.

its simply a bias that cannot exist.

He doesn't have rights over the pregnancy, that's all there is to it.

I mean dude #######!!

Hooray for this new facet of fathers' rights.

Then father's should have the right to refuse parental obligation AFTER birth...no, i don't endorse this.

but you argument that its "woman's choice" and the father has no rights...then he should not be forced into fatherhood. Your argument gives the woman all power and rights with pregnancy and birth. Let's not forget that the fathe IS involved in the process and has rights as well.

its simply a bias that cannot exist.

Well it does exist.

Yay for having control over MY body.

Silence woman! Accept thy husband's will as final.

[HAL 9000 96]

Then father's should have the right to refuse parental obligation AFTER birth...no, i don't endorse this.

but you argument that its "woman's choice" and the father has no rights...then he should not be forced into fatherhood. Your argument gives the woman all power and rights with pregnancy and birth. Let's not forget that the fathe IS involved in the process and has rights as well.

its simply a bias that cannot exist.

Well no sh!t. Let me know when fathers get the chance to carry a pregnancy to term. Then we'll be talking about a lack of bias.

No kidding. I mean its not as though the legal "bias" has anything to do with the biological one.

Only women can have babies?! UNFAIR!!!

So UNFAIR...

Since we've had a couple of realy silly and irrelevant examples to 'prove points' I thought I'd remind us about this 'dude':

[JVKn'CVO 11]

My husband used to be pro choice. After we heard our baby's heart beat only 7 weeks into our pregnancy, he changed his mind. He told me "that is a life, no doubt"

We still understand abortion under certain extreme circumstances, but only if done very very early into the pregnancy. Not someone that wants to abort, I dunno, 8 months into the pregnancy after sex they had out of their own free will

Saludos,

Caro

Fortunately such cases are in fact quite rare. Most abortions (about 85%) are done during the first trimester, with another 13% during the second, and only a small percentage during the third. CDC data says about 2%, and most of those cases are thought to be the sort of situations where the baby is a threat to the mother's life and has no chance of survival; otherwise at that point, most doctors and women would just choose to deliver the baby.

Propaganda videos like this one are almost certainly medical pictures of stillbirths and miscarriages, and medically induced abortions. There just aren't all that many abortions where the fetus looks like a full-term baby (or tons of video footage in abortion clinics.)

2nd paragraph on my post was a reference to FOCA

FOCA Would Wipe Away Every Restriction on Abortion Nationwide

This would eradicate state and federal laws that the majority of Americans support, such as:

Bans on Partial Birth Abortion

Requirements that women be given information about the risks of getting an abortion

Only licensed physicians can perform abortions

Parents must be informed and give consent to their minor daughter's abortion

FOCA would erase these laws and prevent states from enacting similar protective measures in the future.

The Freedom of Choice Act (FOCA) would eliminate every restriction on abortion nationwide.

FOCA will do away with state laws on parental involvement, on partial birth abortion, and on all other protections.

FOCA will compel taxpayer funding of abortions.

FOCA will force faith-based hospitals and healthcare facilities to perform abortions.

fightfoca.com

Saludos,

Caro

Edited February 8, 2009 by JVKn'CVO

[Caladan 19]

One way to think of it. There are three roles, and two people. The roles are: gestator, potential mother, and potential father. The two people are the man and woman whose sex resulted in a pregnancy.

It's that the fetus is gestating in the woman, and thus her role as a gestator, *not* her role as a potential mother, that gives her any choice. If we had artificial wombs or came out of eggs, there wouldn't be an issue.

Would you think that a man should be able to force a woman to have an abortion over her objection? Seriously?

[Boorai 0]

Its not about power of one over the other. Its about the rights of both are parents. The father is either thrusted into or removed from fatherhood..with no decision in the matter.

Yes, I am aware that the woman is the gestator. And the woman and the fetus are interlinked. But the fetus IS a life unto itself and relies upon the mother(parents) to make decisions for it. But even though the father does not physically nurture the fetus, he IS a part of that gestation.

Seems the father is being forgotten about in all this. And i think that is ashame....as men are suppose to "be a man" and do his part AFTER the birth of the child. Seems he would have rights BEFORE the birth of the child too.

But maybe I am thinking bigger than the surface issue.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

[Caladan 19]

The father isn't forgotten; it's just that the alternative is him being able to have a say in whether someone gets an abortion. I mean, think it through. If you give him the same rights over the fetus, and they disagree, then what? She wants to keep the baby, he wants to abort. (Because this is almost always about child support.) Does he take her to court to get an order for her to terminate the pregnancy?

I see where you're coming from, but there's no way to give the guy rights as a father before it's born while respecting the woman's right over her own body. And once the kid is born, both parents are in the same position: they either have to care for the child, provide for its care, or terminate their parental rights.

I'd rather rework how child support is handled or make it easier to adopt than make it so someone else has theoretical rights over his wife or girlfriend's body.