Got denied on my interview b'coz of not having my decision yet at the court from my previous marriage

[faryan 4]

What is the purpose of the interview? Isn't it to ensure everything on the forms was correctly entered, all the papers are there, the marriage/engagement is genuine. We are not lawyers and I personally have had a tax return which I thought was perfect come back with a question. Did I commit fraud because I misunderstood the wording on my 1040? She also has a language barrier to overcome although I would guess her fiance did more than just send in the papers.

I respect the advice given here I truly do think there is some jumping to conclusions here. We do not know what happened during the interview. Did she lie to the questions asked or did she volunteer that her divorce was not final asking what she should do? If she was questioning the proper procedures she had confusion which is quite different from deception. At least she doesn't belong to the MILF.

How does someone find out their fiance or wife is "banned for life" anyways?

Yes, we do not know what happened during the interview. What we know is what she told us. She did not have her final divorce decree during her interview. Fullstop. At that point, she doesnt need lie or make up excuses. She simply did not have the most important paper then. No decree, perhaps also means no CENOMAR. Not having them means CO saying no visa.

Now, one thing that we all can be sure of is that the OP has not disclose any information to us as to whether she belongs to a recognised rebel group like MILF or a terrorist group like some kidnap-for-ransom groups in PI

As to how she can find out if she has been "banned for life" or not, not really sure other than contacting USCIS, perhaps she would really know after she file again.

[Sinergy 3]

What is the purpose of the interview? Isn't it to ensure everything on the forms was correctly entered, all the papers are there, the marriage/engagement is genuine. We are not lawyers and I personally have had a tax return which I thought was perfect come back with a question. Did I commit fraud because I misunderstood the wording on my 1040? She also has a language barrier to overcome although I would guess her fiance did more than just send in the papers.

I respect the advice given here I truly do think there is some jumping to conclusions here. We do not know what happened during the interview. Did she lie to the questions asked or did she volunteer that her divorce was not final asking what she should do? If she was questioning the proper procedures she had confusion which is quite different from deception. At least she doesn't belong to the MILF.

How does someone find out their fiance or wife is "banned for life" anyways?

Yes, we do not know what happened during the interview. What we know is what she told us. She did not have her final divorce decree during her interview. Fullstop. At that point, she doesnt need lie or make up excuses. She simply did not have the most important paper then. No decree, perhaps also means no CENOMAR. Not having them means CO saying no visa.

Now, one thing that we all can be sure of is that the OP has not disclose any information to us as to whether she belongs to a recognised rebel group like MILF or a terrorist group like some kidnap-for-ransom groups in PI

As to how she can find out if she has been "banned for life" or not, not really sure other than contacting USCIS, perhaps she would really know after she file again.

agreed. However, at the point, some of the pinyas are going to stick up for her regardless...and anyone who does, clearly didnt read the instructions for the K1 themselves.

[pushbrk 12,895]

It clearly states on the application to LIST ALL MARRIAGES AND DIVORCES WITH DATES!!! there is no misunderstanding that. You either enter it in correctly or you knowingly leave it blank bc you are afraid of a denial.

Not to mention it is the USC that fills out the application...not the fiance in another country. And i seriously doubt he misunderstood the instructions in that section.

Its already been admitted that they HOPED the divorse was final BEFORE the interview...therefore they petitioned for the K1 knowing one of them was not LEGAL to marry...therefore commiting visa fraud. And YES it is a lifetime ban. It can also be imprisonment and or a fine.

For the sake of accuracy, this USC filled out no applications. He filled out and signed a petition. Later the foreign fiance filled out and signed visa applications. Petition, G325a, and two or more visa applications all contained lies.

[scandal 951]

No getting emotional here. She already stated that they filed the K1 knowing the annulment was not final..and hoped it would be before the interview. Therefore...they could not have put it on the application as there was no annulment date...and if they did...they made up a date...either is still fraud...your not getting the point here...SHE ALREADY ADMITTED THEY FILED THE K1 KNOWING THEY WERE NOT LEGAL TO MARRY...and it clearly states to file the K1 you HAVE to be legal to marry...not legal to marry sometime in the middle of the process...but BEFORE you file the petition...and again..it doesnt matter what was put there...there was no annulment date before they filed, so if a date was put, it was a false date, therefore fraud..and if left blank, it was fraud...as they did not indicate a past marriage when there was one...actually it was still a current marriage...still fraud as she or he was not legal to marry therefore not elegible to file the petition in the first place. The denial was correctly given...and yes giving false information on a government document with the K1 can result in a lifetime ban...and YES they will be informed that if they are given the ban...its common sense that they would be given that information.

NO ONE on this thread needs to know exactly what they put on the application...the fact that she has already admitted that they filed the petition before being legal to marry is knowing enough that whatever they wrote on the application or left it blank was fraud.

Sinergy says: She already stated that they filed the K1 knowing the annulment was not final.

Sinergy, I defy you to show us explicitly where she says that. Sure, it's very logical to conclude from what she has told us that this was her state of mind. For all I know, this is indeed the case. But neither you nor I know that, and certainly we are in no position to 'prove' it (the burden needed if we are to talk here of fraud). You write the word 'knowing', somehow implying you know what was in her head at that time. You do not. And I already gave one scenario, perhaps implausible, in which it could be possible to complete a I-129F and supporting documentation while honestly believing you are already free to remarry, when in fact you are not, and only discover that fact later after filing the petition.

Look, people can say fraud, fraud, fraud all day long till the cows come home. That may, or may not , be the case here.

Disclosure: I am not a lawyer. Everything I know about US Law I learned from TV dramas.

The assertion that this case, as presented by the OP, MUST be fraud, because they MUST have lied on the application .... frankly none of us are in a position to judge.

The crime, if one was in fact committed here, is perjury. And the legal standard to prove perjury is not easy. You need to prove two things: (a) that the accused actually misrepresented a relevant factual matter and (b ) that he/she did so KNOWINGLY. In other words - you need to prove intent. And that means you need to demonstrate the state of mind AT THE TIME the misrepresentation was made.

That's a fairly difficult thing to do. How do you really know someone's state of mind? Especially retroactively, what they thought last year? And how can you prove it? In a court, to a jury? Beyond reasonable doubt? In any such proceeding the USC will benefit from full protection of US law and will be considered innocent till proven guilty. The onus will be on the state to make a case, I doubt they would bother trying. I seriously doubt the USC faces a real jeopardy of criminal charges here, in federal court. But it is entirely possible for USCIS to deny any further immigration benefits - that they can clearly do without needing to prove perjury.

Here would be my advice to the OP:

IF you have additional information which you have not shared with us on this message board, which would clearly show that you did not have any misrepresentation of your ability to marry when you filed your petition

AND IF you are willing to hire an experienced immigration lawyer, who can present this additional information to the USCIS and thus demonstrate that you should be given a second opportunity to file for benefits

THEN .... you should go for it (i.e. file a new petition, once you have a confirmed annulment in your hands)

HOWEVER

if you know in your heart of hearts that you were trying to game the system on your first attempt, and that you in fact knew you were misrepresenting your marital status,

THEN

my advice would be RUN, don't walk, as fast as you can away from your filing, from the USCIS and from any thoughts of living in America. Thank your lucky stars that at this moment you are a free person, your fiance is a free person, and the worst case scenario right now is you can't live in America. It can be worse, and if you raise attention to yourself by filing again, you may find out how much worse it could be.

[MMW 2]

I agree there is something very strange about this situation but again we dont know what was on any documents filed, and as many of us has experienced, USCIS and NVC are capable of mistakes and oversights so personally i can only take her at her words that no deception was intended. I know many Filipinos and their Foreign spouses that in the excitement to get the visa started have done foolish things. The forums here are full of examples. So I think I won't be so judgmental and maybe a little compassionate of her situation. My wife and I will pray for your situation and may God give you wisdom on your next attempt

[Sinergy 3]

It clearly states on the application to LIST ALL MARRIAGES AND DIVORCES WITH DATES!!! there is no misunderstanding that. You either enter it in correctly or you knowingly leave it blank bc you are afraid of a denial.

Not to mention it is the USC that fills out the application...not the fiance in another country. And i seriously doubt he misunderstood the instructions in that section.

Its already been admitted that they HOPED the divorse was final BEFORE the interview...therefore they petitioned for the K1 knowing one of them was not LEGAL to marry...therefore commiting visa fraud. And YES it is a lifetime ban. It can also be imprisonment and or a fine.

For the sake of accuracy, this USC filled out no applications. He filled out and signed a petition. Later the foreign fiance filled out and signed visa applications. Petition, G325a, and two or more visa applications all contained lies.

yes yes petition...and i agree with the rest

[Sinergy 3]

No getting emotional here. She already stated that they filed the K1 knowing the annulment was not final..and hoped it would be before the interview. Therefore...they could not have put it on the application as there was no annulment date...and if they did...they made up a date...either is still fraud...your not getting the point here...SHE ALREADY ADMITTED THEY FILED THE K1 KNOWING THEY WERE NOT LEGAL TO MARRY...and it clearly states to file the K1 you HAVE to be legal to marry...not legal to marry sometime in the middle of the process...but BEFORE you file the petition...and again..it doesnt matter what was put there...there was no annulment date before they filed, so if a date was put, it was a false date, therefore fraud..and if left blank, it was fraud...as they did not indicate a past marriage when there was one...actually it was still a current marriage...still fraud as she or he was not legal to marry therefore not elegible to file the petition in the first place. The denial was correctly given...and yes giving false information on a government document with the K1 can result in a lifetime ban...and YES they will be informed that if they are given the ban...its common sense that they would be given that information.

NO ONE on this thread needs to know exactly what they put on the application...the fact that she has already admitted that they filed the petition before being legal to marry is knowing enough that whatever they wrote on the application or left it blank was fraud.

Sinergy says: She already stated that they filed the K1 knowing the annulment was not final.

Sinergy, I defy you to show us explicitly where she says that. Sure, it's very logical to conclude from what she has told us that this was her state of mind. For all I know, this is indeed the case. But neither you nor I know that, and certainly we are in no position to 'prove' it (the burden needed if we are to talk here of fraud). You write the word 'knowing', somehow implying you know what was in her head at that time. You do not. And I already gave one scenario, perhaps implausible, in which it could be possible to complete a I-129F and supporting documentation while honestly believing you are already free to remarry, when in fact you are not, and only discover that fact later after filing the petition.

Look, people can say fraud, fraud, fraud all day long till the cows come home. That may, or may not , be the case here.

Disclosure: I am not a lawyer. Everything I know about US Law I learned from TV dramas.

The assertion that this case, as presented by the OP, MUST be fraud, because they MUST have lied on the application .... frankly none of us are in a position to judge.

The crime, if one was in fact committed here, is perjury. And the legal standard to prove perjury is not easy. You need to prove two things: (a) that the accused actually misrepresented a relevant factual matter and (b ) that he/she did so KNOWINGLY. In other words - you need to prove intent. And that means you need to demonstrate the state of mind AT THE TIME the misrepresentation was made.

That's a fairly difficult thing to do. How do you really know someone's state of mind? Especially retroactively, what they thought last year? And how can you prove it? In a court, to a jury? Beyond reasonable doubt? In any such proceeding the USC will benefit from full protection of US law and will be considered innocent till proven guilty. The onus will be on the state to make a case, I doubt they would bother trying. I seriously doubt the USC faces a real jeopardy of criminal charges here, in federal court. But it is entirely possible for USCIS to deny any further immigration benefits - that they can clearly do without needing to prove perjury.

Here would be my advice to the OP:

IF you have additional information which you have not shared with us on this message board, which would clearly show that you did not have any misrepresentation of your ability to marry when you filed your petition

AND IF you are willing to hire an experienced immigration lawyer, who can present this additional information to the USCIS and thus demonstrate that you should be given a second opportunity to file for benefits

THEN .... you should go for it (i.e. file a new petition, once you have a confirmed annulment in your hands)

HOWEVER

if you know in your heart of hearts that you were trying to game the system on your first attempt, and that you in fact knew you were misrepresenting your marital status,

THEN

my advice would be RUN, don't walk, as fast as you can away from your filing, from the USCIS and from any thoughts of living in America. Thank your lucky stars that at this moment you are a free person, your fiance is a free person, and the worst case scenario right now is you can't live in America. It can be worse, and if you raise attention to yourself by filing again, you may find out how much worse it could be.

read the thread...not just the last page...she says they filed and hoped to have the annulment before the interview...i dont think i need to spell that out any more clear

perjury on a US government form for IMMIGRATION...is fraud

quoted from the VERY FIRST POST:

"i am not lucky like the usually people who got there chance to have a visa...

My Problem is i have my previous marriage before and now i am waiting for my decisions to come this month... But the woman in consul whose interviewing me today she's was denying my papers... she never give me a consideration to wait my decision this month..."

uh no...im still puzzled how the OP thought the consulate would actually say " well you were legally supossed to be legal to marry BEFORE you filed the petition for fiance visa...doing so not being legal to marry is fraud...but sure ill go ahead and WAIT til your annulment is final this month and re-interview you" really.....im almost convinced that it was more trying to get around the K1 requirments and hoping to get over...as the OP states they need advice as they are not as lucky as most of us to get their visa.

Edited February 7, 2009 by Sinergy

[pushbrk 12,895]

Sinergy says: She already stated that they filed the K1 knowing the annulment was not final.

Sinergy, I defy you to show us explicitly where she says that. Sure, it's very logical to conclude from what she has told us that this was her state of mind. .......and so on snipped.

Familiarity with the forms and process is enough to know they willfully misrepresented the facts. If you want to prove it to yourself, put yourself in the scenario. You're the US Citizen, you know your fiance is going through an annullment proceding, so you know she's married. You sit down to fill out the I-129F. Actually start filling it out. Get to section six on the beneficiary side. How do you answer the marital status? Go to section 10. How do you answer? If you tell the truth, the petition cannot possiblly be approved, so you must lie in section 6 and 10 to get an approved petition because you know your fiance is married.

Now put yourself in the foreign fiance's shoes and go through the G325a knowing you have a husband and see if you can fill out the G325a in a way that it can be approved without lying. Now sit down and write and sign a letter stating you are free to marry..... Then fast forward to the visa applications, DS 156/157/230. Try filling those out knowing you're married applying for a fiance visa. Can you do it without lying?

That's why we know they shot themselves in the heart over and over again before the interview becaue if they didn't, there never would have been an interview.

[Sinergy 3]

Sinergy says: She already stated that they filed the K1 knowing the annulment was not final.

Sinergy, I defy you to show us explicitly where she says that. Sure, it's very logical to conclude from what she has told us that this was her state of mind. .......and so on snipped.

Familiarity with the forms and process is enough to know they willfully misrepresented the facts. If you want to prove it to yourself, put yourself in the scenario. You're the US Citizen, you know your fiance is going through an annullment proceding, so you know she's married. You sit down to fill out the I-129F. Actually start filling it out. Get to section six on the beneficiary side. How do you answer the marital status? Go to section 10. How do you answer? If you tell the truth, the petition cannot possiblly be approved, so you must lie in section 6 and 10 to get an approved petition because you know your fiance is married.

Now put yourself in the foreign fiance's shoes and go through the G325a knowing you have a husband and see if you can fill out the G325a in a way that it can be approved without lying. Now sit down and write and sign a letter stating you are free to marry..... Then fast forward to the visa applications, DS 156/157/230. Try filling those out knowing you're married applying for a fiance visa. Can you do it without lying?

That's why we know they shot themselves in the heart over and over again before the interview becaue if they didn't, there never would have been an interview.

exactly!!!!

[natty bumppo 297]

No getting emotional here. She already stated that they filed the K1 knowing the annulment was not final..and hoped it would be before the interview. Therefore...they could not have put it on the application as there was no annulment date...and if they did...they made up a date...either is still fraud...your not getting the point here...SHE ALREADY ADMITTED THEY FILED THE K1 KNOWING THEY WERE NOT LEGAL TO MARRY...and it clearly states to file the K1 you HAVE to be legal to marry...not legal to marry sometime in the middle of the process...but BEFORE you file the petition...and again..it doesnt matter what was put there...there was no annulment date before they filed, so if a date was put, it was a false date, therefore fraud..and if left blank, it was fraud...as they did not indicate a past marriage when there was one...actually it was still a current marriage...still fraud as she or he was not legal to marry therefore not elegible to file the petition in the first place. The denial was correctly given...and yes giving false information on a government document with the K1 can result in a lifetime ban...and YES they will be informed that if they are given the ban...its common sense that they would be given that information.

NO ONE on this thread needs to know exactly what they put on the application...the fact that she has already admitted that they filed the petition before being legal to marry is knowing enough that whatever they wrote on the application or left it blank was fraud.

Stop.making.sense !

[pushbrk 12,895]

Another case has been mentioned here, where the couple was successful even though the annullment wasn't completed until long after the petition was filed. That case to had many material misrepresentations and they couple is just as guilty of visa fraud for same reasons. The difference is they got away with it by delaying the interview until a CENOMAR was in hand. A CENOMAR states the fiancee is free to marry, effectively covering each and every previous lie from being discovered. They will need to look over their shoulders for the rest of their lives.

[Sinergy 3]

No getting emotional here. She already stated that they filed the K1 knowing the annulment was not final..and hoped it would be before the interview. Therefore...they could not have put it on the application as there was no annulment date...and if they did...they made up a date...either is still fraud...your not getting the point here...SHE ALREADY ADMITTED THEY FILED THE K1 KNOWING THEY WERE NOT LEGAL TO MARRY...and it clearly states to file the K1 you HAVE to be legal to marry...not legal to marry sometime in the middle of the process...but BEFORE you file the petition...and again..it doesnt matter what was put there...there was no annulment date before they filed, so if a date was put, it was a false date, therefore fraud..and if left blank, it was fraud...as they did not indicate a past marriage when there was one...actually it was still a current marriage...still fraud as she or he was not legal to marry therefore not elegible to file the petition in the first place. The denial was correctly given...and yes giving false information on a government document with the K1 can result in a lifetime ban...and YES they will be informed that if they are given the ban...its common sense that they would be given that information.

NO ONE on this thread needs to know exactly what they put on the application...the fact that she has already admitted that they filed the petition before being legal to marry is knowing enough that whatever they wrote on the application or left it blank was fraud.

Stop.making.sense !

I know...i think its confusing ppl

[MMW 2]

I have put myself in her mind and possible way of thinking and the conclusion i can see happening is that yes the Annulment wasn't legally concluded per records. but in her mind i am getting the impression that she believed since the case was finished just not documented that she was indeed single. There is a difference between this line of thinking and knowingly committing an act of deception so as my last post stated I dont have the documents in front of me to pass judgment and my rational way of thinking may not have been hers. I dont know anyone that at first filing a petition or application is an expert like some here seem to think they are. We are human and capable of mistakes and impulsive acts.

[natty bumppo 297]

No getting emotional here. She already stated that they filed the K1 knowing the annulment was not final..and hoped it would be before the interview. Therefore...they could not have put it on the application as there was no annulment date...and if they did...they made up a date...either is still fraud...your not getting the point here...SHE ALREADY ADMITTED THEY FILED THE K1 KNOWING THEY WERE NOT LEGAL TO MARRY...and it clearly states to file the K1 you HAVE to be legal to marry...not legal to marry sometime in the middle of the process...but BEFORE you file the petition...and again..it doesnt matter what was put there...there was no annulment date before they filed, so if a date was put, it was a false date, therefore fraud..and if left blank, it was fraud...as they did not indicate a past marriage when there was one...actually it was still a current marriage...still fraud as she or he was not legal to marry therefore not elegible to file the petition in the first place. The denial was correctly given...and yes giving false information on a government document with the K1 can result in a lifetime ban...and YES they will be informed that if they are given the ban...its common sense that they would be given that information.

NO ONE on this thread needs to know exactly what they put on the application...the fact that she has already admitted that they filed the petition before being legal to marry is knowing enough that whatever they wrote on the application or left it blank was fraud.

Stop.making.sense !

I know...i think its confusing ppl

The rules/regs are very clear. The applicant committed fraud and the Visa is denied.

I've not read all the earlier posts ... did the USC willfully hide the truth or did the foreign bride hide the truth from the USC when the documents were filed?

[natty bumppo 297]

I have put myself in her mind and possible way of thinking and the conclusion i can see happening is that yes the Annulment wasn't legally concluded per records. but in her mind i am getting the impression that she believed since the case was finished just not documented that she was indeed single. There is a difference between this line of thinking and knowingly committing an act of deception so as my last post stated I dont have the documents in front of me to pass judgment and my rational way of thinking may not have been hers. I dont know anyone that at first filing a petition or application is an expert like some here seem to think they are. We are human and capable of mistakes and impulsive acts.

She was a legend in her own mind ... and has no concept of reality. Without the paperwork no job is ever completed ... not even a dump.