doctor investigated in badly botched abortion

[dalegg 143]

23 weeks? Don't women usually start to notice something's missing about that time?

[MichelleN 0]

23 weeks? Don't women usually start to notice something's missing about that time?

Well it's usually women who have sporadic periods that don't notice right away.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Pretty sickening.

Just emailed the sister. She's an Ob/Gyn and can tell us through me after what week is considered physiologically viable- I have often heard its 37 weeks. I doubt that 23 weeks would be considered as such. But a live birth is a live birth and should be treated as a pre-term.

As a rule (in teh UK) a baby born at 24 weeks will be given every chance of survival. It may have some problems as it gets older and be slower developmentally, but the docs will still try.

For the record a 23 week old fetus is approx 29cm in length and will weigh around a pound.

I don't think personal choice abortions should be carried out after 16 weeks. For medical reasons it should be done on a case by case basis.

Obama is in favor of allowing babies born alive during abortions to be left to die, as his Illinois Senate record shows. So, expect to see more of this, albeit, more clinical and less sloppy than this case. If you're pro-abortion, then accept the fact that killinga life is what an abortion does. No way around it.

Oh, more of your drivel. Yeah, Obama hates babies blah, blah, blah.

I post so that you can display your hatefulness. Baiting you is child's play.

And baiting is against the TOS.

Are you f-in serious? Since when is having an opinion baiting? When are you going to say something to her about ad homineums against me?

Edited February 8, 2009 by Virtual wife

[Mags 112]

I post so that you can display your hatefulness. Baiting you is child's play.

Are you f-in serious? Since when is having an opinion baiting? When are you going to say something to her about ad homineums against me?

You have a very short memory. See above. I'm responding to YOUR post where you admit to baiting Madam Cleo.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I know what you responded to. I responded to you ignoring PHs taunts against me. It doesn't take a damn genious to see that I dont have to do anything but post inorder to "bait" her. If you can't tell sarcasm in response to mockery, and can't tell who is baiting who, then maybe you shouldn't be a mod. And, if you cant be objective, then you definitely shouldn't be a mod.

[HAL 9000 96]

[aidan80 9]

http://www.buffalonews.com/260/story/570428.html

Fla. doctor investigated in badly botched abortion

By CHRISTINE ARMARIO

Associated Press Writer

Eighteen and pregnant, Sycloria Williams went to an abortion clinic outside Miami and paid $1,200 for Dr. Pierre Jean-Jacque Renelique to terminate her 23-week pregnancy.

Three days later, she sat in a reclining chair, medicated to dilate her cervix and otherwise get her ready for the procedure.

Only Renelique didn't arrive in time. According to Williams and the Florida Department of Health, she went into labor and delivered a live baby girl.

What Williams and the Health Department say happened next has shocked people on both sides of the abortion debate: One of the clinic's owners, who has no medical license, cut the infant's umbilical cord. Williams says the woman placed the baby in a plastic biohazard bag and threw it out.

Police recovered the decomposing remains in a cardboard box a week later after getting anonymous tips.

"I don't care what your politics are, what your morals are, this should not be happening in our community," said Tom Pennekamp, a Miami attorney representing Williams in her lawsuit against Renelique (ren-uh-LEEK') and the clinic owners.

The state Board of Medicine is to hear Renelique's case in Tampa on Friday and determine whether to strip his license. The state attorney's homicide division is investigating, though no charges have been filed. Terry Chavez, a spokeswoman with the Miami-Dade County State Attorney's Office, said this week that prosecutors were nearing a decision.

Renelique's attorney, Joseph Harrison, called the allegations at best "misguided and incomplete" in an e-mail to The Associated Press. He didn't provide details.

The case has riled the anti-abortion community, which contends the clinic's actions constitute murder.

"The baby was just treated as a piece of garbage," said Tom Brejcha, president of The Thomas More Society, a law firm that is also representing Williams. "People all over the country are just aghast."

Even those who support abortion rights are concerned about the allegations.

"It really disturbed me," said Joanne Sterner, president of the Broward County chapter of the National Organization for Women, after reviewing the administrative complaint against Renelique. "I know that there are clinics out there like this. And I hope that we can keep (women) from going to these types of clinics."

According to state records, Renelique received his medical training at the State University of Haiti. In 1991, he completed a four-year residency in obstetrics and gynecology at Interfaith Medical Center in New York.

New York records show that Renelique has made at least five medical malpractice payments in the past decade, the circumstances of which were not detailed in the filings.

Several attempts to reach Renelique were unsuccessful. Some of his office numbers were disconnected, no home number could be found and he did not return messages left with his attorney.

Williams struggled with the decision to have an abortion, Pennekamp said. She declined an interview request made through him.

She concluded she didn't have the resources or maturity to raise a child, he said, and went to the Miramar Women's Center on July 17, 2006. Sonograms indicated she was 23 weeks pregnant, according to the Department of Health. She met Renelique at a second clinic two days later.

Renelique gave Williams laminaria, a drug that dilates the cervix, and prescribed three other medications, according to the administrative complaint filed by the Health Department. She was told to go to yet another clinic, A Gyn Diagnostic Center in Hialeah, where the procedure would be performed the next day, on July 20, 2006.

Williams arrived in the morning and was given more medication.

The Department of Health account continues as follows: Just before noon she began to feel ill. The clinic contacted Renelique. Two hours later, he still hadn't shown up. Williams went into labor and delivered the baby.

"She came face to face with a human being," Pennekamp said. "And that changed everything."

The complaint says one of the clinic owners, Belkis Gonzalez came in and cut the umbilical cord with scissors, then placed the baby in a plastic bag, and the bag in a trash can.

Williams' lawsuit offers a cruder account: She says Gonzalez knocked the baby off the recliner chair where she had given birth, onto the floor. The baby's umbilical cord was not clamped, allowing her to bleed out. Gonzalez scooped the baby, placenta and afterbirth into a red plastic biohazard bag and threw it out.

No working telephone number could be found for Gonzalez, and an attorney who has represented the clinic in the past did not return a message.

At 23 weeks, an otherwise healthy fetus would have a slim but legitimate chance of survival. Quadruplets born at 23 weeks last year at The Nebraska Medical Center survived.

An autopsy determined Williams' baby - she named her Shanice - had filled her lungs with air, meaning she had been born alive, according to the Department of Health. The cause of death was listed as extreme prematurity.

The Department of Health believes Renelique committed malpractice by failing to ensure that licensed personnel would be present when Williams was there, among other missteps.

The department wants the Board of Medicine, a separate agency, to permanently revoke Renelique's license, among other penalties. His license is currently restricted, permitting him to only perform abortions when another licensed physician is present and can review his medical records.

Should prosecutors file murder charges, they'd have to prove the baby was born alive, said Robert Batey, a professor of criminal law at Stetson University College of Law in Gulfport. The defense might contend that the child would have died anyway, but most courts would not allow that argument, he said.

"Hastening the death of an individual who is terminally ill is still considered causing the death of that individual," Batey said. "And I think a court would rule similarly in this type of case."

Thats sick, I can't believe these sick acts are legally allowed to happen. Abortion should be illegal and those who want to take part in it should be charged with murder. It dosent matter if it's 2 hours and a clump of cells or 23 weeks or even 40 years old it's still or could be a person!

[Mags 112]

I know what you responded to. I responded to you ignoring PHs taunts against me. It doesn't take a damn genious to see that I dont have to do anything but post inorder to "bait" her. If you can't tell sarcasm in response to mockery, and can't tell who is baiting who, then maybe you shouldn't be a mod. And, if you cant be objective, then you definitely shouldn't be a mod.

I posted in response to YOUR admittance to baiting her. Are you suspended? Nope. Means that although you said you baited her, neither myself or the mod team thought it was actually worthy of action. The same goes for Madam Cleo's comments. Again, not worthy of action.

The TOS has looser guidelines than the rest of VJ - mainly because it doesn't discuss immigration issues that should be treated with respect and care.

As far as I'm concerned this thread hasn't had any major TOS violations, just the usual suspects running round in circles.

I'll unplug you!

[HAL 9000 96]

I know what you responded to. I responded to you ignoring PHs taunts against me. It doesn't take a damn genious to see that I dont have to do anything but post inorder to "bait" her. If you can't tell sarcasm in response to mockery, and can't tell who is baiting who, then maybe you shouldn't be a mod. And, if you cant be objective, then you definitely shouldn't be a mod.

I posted in response to YOUR admittance to baiting her. Are you suspended? Nope. Means that although you said you baited her, neither myself or the mod team thought it was actually worthy of action. The same goes for Madam Cleo's comments. Again, not worthy of action.

The TOS has looser guidelines than the rest of VJ - mainly because it doesn't discuss immigration issues that should be treated with respect and care.

As far as I'm concerned this thread hasn't had any major TOS violations, just the usual suspects running round in circles.

I'll unplug you!

Aaaarrgghhh... many have tried in the past ... thank goodness for my small nuclear fission reactor! :P

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

http://www.buffalonews.com/260/story/570428.html

Fla. doctor investigated in badly botched abortion

By CHRISTINE ARMARIO

Associated Press Writer

Eighteen and pregnant, Sycloria Williams went to an abortion clinic outside Miami and paid $1,200 for Dr. Pierre Jean-Jacque Renelique to terminate her 23-week pregnancy.

Three days later, she sat in a reclining chair, medicated to dilate her cervix and otherwise get her ready for the procedure.

Only Renelique didn't arrive in time. According to Williams and the Florida Department of Health, she went into labor and delivered a live baby girl.

What Williams and the Health Department say happened next has shocked people on both sides of the abortion debate: One of the clinic's owners, who has no medical license, cut the infant's umbilical cord. Williams says the woman placed the baby in a plastic biohazard bag and threw it out.

Police recovered the decomposing remains in a cardboard box a week later after getting anonymous tips.

"I don't care what your politics are, what your morals are, this should not be happening in our community," said Tom Pennekamp, a Miami attorney representing Williams in her lawsuit against Renelique (ren-uh-LEEK') and the clinic owners.

The state Board of Medicine is to hear Renelique's case in Tampa on Friday and determine whether to strip his license. The state attorney's homicide division is investigating, though no charges have been filed. Terry Chavez, a spokeswoman with the Miami-Dade County State Attorney's Office, said this week that prosecutors were nearing a decision.

Renelique's attorney, Joseph Harrison, called the allegations at best "misguided and incomplete" in an e-mail to The Associated Press. He didn't provide details.

The case has riled the anti-abortion community, which contends the clinic's actions constitute murder.

"The baby was just treated as a piece of garbage," said Tom Brejcha, president of The Thomas More Society, a law firm that is also representing Williams. "People all over the country are just aghast."

Even those who support abortion rights are concerned about the allegations.

"It really disturbed me," said Joanne Sterner, president of the Broward County chapter of the National Organization for Women, after reviewing the administrative complaint against Renelique. "I know that there are clinics out there like this. And I hope that we can keep (women) from going to these types of clinics."

According to state records, Renelique received his medical training at the State University of Haiti. In 1991, he completed a four-year residency in obstetrics and gynecology at Interfaith Medical Center in New York.

New York records show that Renelique has made at least five medical malpractice payments in the past decade, the circumstances of which were not detailed in the filings.

Several attempts to reach Renelique were unsuccessful. Some of his office numbers were disconnected, no home number could be found and he did not return messages left with his attorney.

Williams struggled with the decision to have an abortion, Pennekamp said. She declined an interview request made through him.

She concluded she didn't have the resources or maturity to raise a child, he said, and went to the Miramar Women's Center on July 17, 2006. Sonograms indicated she was 23 weeks pregnant, according to the Department of Health. She met Renelique at a second clinic two days later.

Renelique gave Williams laminaria, a drug that dilates the cervix, and prescribed three other medications, according to the administrative complaint filed by the Health Department. She was told to go to yet another clinic, A Gyn Diagnostic Center in Hialeah, where the procedure would be performed the next day, on July 20, 2006.

Williams arrived in the morning and was given more medication.

The Department of Health account continues as follows: Just before noon she began to feel ill. The clinic contacted Renelique. Two hours later, he still hadn't shown up. Williams went into labor and delivered the baby.

"She came face to face with a human being," Pennekamp said. "And that changed everything."

The complaint says one of the clinic owners, Belkis Gonzalez came in and cut the umbilical cord with scissors, then placed the baby in a plastic bag, and the bag in a trash can.

Williams' lawsuit offers a cruder account: She says Gonzalez knocked the baby off the recliner chair where she had given birth, onto the floor. The baby's umbilical cord was not clamped, allowing her to bleed out. Gonzalez scooped the baby, placenta and afterbirth into a red plastic biohazard bag and threw it out.

No working telephone number could be found for Gonzalez, and an attorney who has represented the clinic in the past did not return a message.

At 23 weeks, an otherwise healthy fetus would have a slim but legitimate chance of survival. Quadruplets born at 23 weeks last year at The Nebraska Medical Center survived.

An autopsy determined Williams' baby - she named her Shanice - had filled her lungs with air, meaning she had been born alive, according to the Department of Health. The cause of death was listed as extreme prematurity.

The Department of Health believes Renelique committed malpractice by failing to ensure that licensed personnel would be present when Williams was there, among other missteps.

The department wants the Board of Medicine, a separate agency, to permanently revoke Renelique's license, among other penalties. His license is currently restricted, permitting him to only perform abortions when another licensed physician is present and can review his medical records.

Should prosecutors file murder charges, they'd have to prove the baby was born alive, said Robert Batey, a professor of criminal law at Stetson University College of Law in Gulfport. The defense might contend that the child would have died anyway, but most courts would not allow that argument, he said.

"Hastening the death of an individual who is terminally ill is still considered causing the death of that individual," Batey said. "And I think a court would rule similarly in this type of case."

Thats sick, I can't believe these sick acts are legally allowed to happen. Abortion should be illegal and those who want to take part in it should be charged with murder. It dosent matter if it's 2 hours and a clump of cells or 23 weeks or even 40 years old it's still or could be a person!

It does matter though.

Edited February 8, 2009 by Paul Daniels

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I know what you responded to. I responded to you ignoring PHs taunts against me. It doesn't take a damn genious to see that I dont have to do anything but post inorder to "bait" her. If you can't tell sarcasm in response to mockery, and can't tell who is baiting who, then maybe you shouldn't be a mod. And, if you cant be objective, then you definitely shouldn't be a mod.

I posted in response to YOUR admittance to baiting her. Are you suspended? Nope. Means that although you said you baited her, neither myself or the mod team thought it was actually worthy of action. The same goes for Madam Cleo's comments. Again, not worthy of action.

The TOS has looser guidelines than the rest of VJ - mainly because it doesn't discuss immigration issues that should be treated with respect and care.

As far as I'm concerned this thread hasn't had any major TOS violations, just the usual suspects running round in circles.

I dont bait her, and you know it, so what's the point of commenting on it as if I do? If you're going to comment on that, comment also on what can clearly be seen as taunting by PH. Maybe neither is actionable, but if one is worth commenting on, so is the rest.

[HAL 9000 96]

http://www.buffalonews.com/260/story/570428.html

Fla. doctor investigated in badly botched abortion

By CHRISTINE ARMARIO

Associated Press Writer

Eighteen and pregnant, Sycloria Williams went to an abortion clinic outside Miami and paid $1,200 for Dr. Pierre Jean-Jacque Renelique to terminate her 23-week pregnancy.

Three days later, she sat in a reclining chair, medicated to dilate her cervix and otherwise get her ready for the procedure.

Only Renelique didn't arrive in time. According to Williams and the Florida Department of Health, she went into labor and delivered a live baby girl.

What Williams and the Health Department say happened next has shocked people on both sides of the abortion debate: One of the clinic's owners, who has no medical license, cut the infant's umbilical cord. Williams says the woman placed the baby in a plastic biohazard bag and threw it out.

Police recovered the decomposing remains in a cardboard box a week later after getting anonymous tips.

"I don't care what your politics are, what your morals are, this should not be happening in our community," said Tom Pennekamp, a Miami attorney representing Williams in her lawsuit against Renelique (ren-uh-LEEK') and the clinic owners.

The state Board of Medicine is to hear Renelique's case in Tampa on Friday and determine whether to strip his license. The state attorney's homicide division is investigating, though no charges have been filed. Terry Chavez, a spokeswoman with the Miami-Dade County State Attorney's Office, said this week that prosecutors were nearing a decision.

Renelique's attorney, Joseph Harrison, called the allegations at best "misguided and incomplete" in an e-mail to The Associated Press. He didn't provide details.

The case has riled the anti-abortion community, which contends the clinic's actions constitute murder.

"The baby was just treated as a piece of garbage," said Tom Brejcha, president of The Thomas More Society, a law firm that is also representing Williams. "People all over the country are just aghast."

Even those who support abortion rights are concerned about the allegations.

"It really disturbed me," said Joanne Sterner, president of the Broward County chapter of the National Organization for Women, after reviewing the administrative complaint against Renelique. "I know that there are clinics out there like this. And I hope that we can keep (women) from going to these types of clinics."

According to state records, Renelique received his medical training at the State University of Haiti. In 1991, he completed a four-year residency in obstetrics and gynecology at Interfaith Medical Center in New York.

New York records show that Renelique has made at least five medical malpractice payments in the past decade, the circumstances of which were not detailed in the filings.

Several attempts to reach Renelique were unsuccessful. Some of his office numbers were disconnected, no home number could be found and he did not return messages left with his attorney.

Williams struggled with the decision to have an abortion, Pennekamp said. She declined an interview request made through him.

She concluded she didn't have the resources or maturity to raise a child, he said, and went to the Miramar Women's Center on July 17, 2006. Sonograms indicated she was 23 weeks pregnant, according to the Department of Health. She met Renelique at a second clinic two days later.

Renelique gave Williams laminaria, a drug that dilates the cervix, and prescribed three other medications, according to the administrative complaint filed by the Health Department. She was told to go to yet another clinic, A Gyn Diagnostic Center in Hialeah, where the procedure would be performed the next day, on July 20, 2006.

Williams arrived in the morning and was given more medication.

The Department of Health account continues as follows: Just before noon she began to feel ill. The clinic contacted Renelique. Two hours later, he still hadn't shown up. Williams went into labor and delivered the baby.

"She came face to face with a human being," Pennekamp said. "And that changed everything."

The complaint says one of the clinic owners, Belkis Gonzalez came in and cut the umbilical cord with scissors, then placed the baby in a plastic bag, and the bag in a trash can.

Williams' lawsuit offers a cruder account: She says Gonzalez knocked the baby off the recliner chair where she had given birth, onto the floor. The baby's umbilical cord was not clamped, allowing her to bleed out. Gonzalez scooped the baby, placenta and afterbirth into a red plastic biohazard bag and threw it out.

No working telephone number could be found for Gonzalez, and an attorney who has represented the clinic in the past did not return a message.

At 23 weeks, an otherwise healthy fetus would have a slim but legitimate chance of survival. Quadruplets born at 23 weeks last year at The Nebraska Medical Center survived.

An autopsy determined Williams' baby - she named her Shanice - had filled her lungs with air, meaning she had been born alive, according to the Department of Health. The cause of death was listed as extreme prematurity.

The Department of Health believes Renelique committed malpractice by failing to ensure that licensed personnel would be present when Williams was there, among other missteps.

The department wants the Board of Medicine, a separate agency, to permanently revoke Renelique's license, among other penalties. His license is currently restricted, permitting him to only perform abortions when another licensed physician is present and can review his medical records.

Should prosecutors file murder charges, they'd have to prove the baby was born alive, said Robert Batey, a professor of criminal law at Stetson University College of Law in Gulfport. The defense might contend that the child would have died anyway, but most courts would not allow that argument, he said.

"Hastening the death of an individual who is terminally ill is still considered causing the death of that individual," Batey said. "And I think a court would rule similarly in this type of case."

Thats sick, I can't believe these sick acts are legally allowed to happen. Abortion should be illegal and those who want to take part in it should be charged with murder. It dosent matter if it's 2 hours and a clump of cells or 23 weeks or even 40 years old it's still or could be a person!

It does matter though.

I'm gonna have to feel like a cold blooded murderer from working with human cell lines then.

[natty bumppo 297]

I'll unplug you!

can you post the pics? otherwise it didn't happen

[HAL 9000 96]

I'll unplug you!

can you post the pics? otherwise it didn't happen

[JVKn'CVO 11]

Aaahh so let's sum up

*Partial birth abortion

*Not performed or even supervised by a licensed practitioner

*No counseling for the mother

All things that FOCA is aimed to achieve! Still sound like a good idea???

23 weeks? Don't women usually start to notice something's missing about that time?

Never mind a missing period...Women feel the baby kick between 16 and 18 weeks

babycenter - 16 weeks

Saludos,

Caro