SAWASDEE 3 (2009 Thai thread restarted)

[Dan and Pat! 0]

At the consular level, the CO takes the role of the KING and anybody who walks in

the door is the subject and should behave accordingly. Learn to smile & wai and even

if it starts with what seems like insults, you might get a little respect as smiling and

wai-ing does not follow a farang type of behavior which may be assumed at the outset.

Thais dress up their government officials like 10-star admirals and it seems to be from

the top-down that all benefits flow. The American notion that a government official is

a civil "servant" means that if we meet Barack Obama, he shines OUR shoes and not

the other way around. Somehow it may not always work that way.

I absolutely agree with you Thong, except for one thing, the American Embassy is supposed to be run by Americans, not Thais.

In the past CO's who have set up their own kingdoms have been a big source of distress to the people on this board (Think Heart of Darkness or Marlon Brando in Apocalypse Now). I don't mind keeping an eye on them.

Charlie don't surf!

[BishopMnA 0]

Being an American at an American Consulate gives you no more rights or privileges than you would get at a USCIS office here in the US. The Consulates hire foreign nationals because they work for less money than Americans do. Trying to intimidate them only enforces their belief that farangs think they are better than everyone else. People should try to put themselves in someone else’s shoes before being an a$$hole to them. They are simply doing their job. Just my opinion.

I totally agree...just relax...geeez!

[*Robert* 2]

I absolutely agree with you Thong, except for one thing, the American Embassy is supposed to be run by Americans, not Thais.

In the past CO's who have set up their own kingdoms have been a big source of distress to the people on this board (Think Heart of Darkness or Marlon Brando in Apocalypse Now). I don't mind keeping an eye on them.

Charlie don't surf!

The Embassy IS run by Americans who employ Thai nationals to help them do it. You forget you are still in a foreign country, and our Embassy and Consulate are there through agreements with the Thai government. We have no "right" to have an Embassy there.

Yelling at the people at the gate or girls coming out is like yelling at a telemarketer. They are only doing their job. They do not set policy, just enforce it.

If you're getting this upset this early... you have a long road ahead.

[Dan and Pat! 0]

I absolutely agree with you Thong, except for one thing, the American Embassy is supposed to be run by Americans, not Thais.

In the past CO's who have set up their own kingdoms have been a big source of distress to the people on this board (Think Heart of Darkness or Marlon Brando in Apocalypse Now). I don't mind keeping an eye on them.

Charlie don't surf!

The Embassy IS run by Americans who employ Thai nationals to help them do it. You forget you are still in a foreign country, and our Embassy and Consulate are there through agreements with the Thai government. We have no "right" to have an Embassy there.

Yelling at the people at the gate or girls coming out is like yelling at a telemarketer. They are only doing their job. They do not set policy, just enforce it.

If you're getting this upset this early... you have a long road ahead.

I want to be very clear about two points.

A. I'm not an #######, I didn't yell at anyone. I camly asked them to explain themselves. That combined with asking for names was enough to instill panic in about 6 people. That shows me that they didn't really understand the policy they were 'following', I hope they weren't making it up as they went.

B. I'm not upset. I'm just looking for some accountability at an American Embassy owned and run by Americans and funded with tax dollars.

Frankly, I think you're out of line calling me an ####, an #######, etc. when all I'm doing is encouraging people to have some backbone and ask questions. It might help the next person along in line, which is the whole point of this website.

[AaronLV 12]

I absolutely agree with you Thong, except for one thing, the American Embassy is supposed to be run by Americans, not Thais.

In the past CO's who have set up their own kingdoms have been a big source of distress to the people on this board (Think Heart of Darkness or Marlon Brando in Apocalypse Now). I don't mind keeping an eye on them.

Charlie don't surf!

The Embassy IS run by Americans who employ Thai nationals to help them do it. You forget you are still in a foreign country, and our Embassy and Consulate are there through agreements with the Thai government. We have no "right" to have an Embassy there.

Yelling at the people at the gate or girls coming out is like yelling at a telemarketer. They are only doing their job. They do not set policy, just enforce it.

If you're getting this upset this early... you have a long road ahead.

A. I'm not an #######, I didn't yell at anyone. I camly asked them to explain themselves. That combined with asking for names was enough to instill panic in about 6 people. That shows me that they didn't really understand the policy they were 'following', I hope they weren't making it up as they went.

B. I'm not upset. I'm just looking for some accountability at an American Embassy owned and run by Americans and funded with tax dollars.

Frankly, I think you're out of line calling me an ####, an #######, etc. when all I'm doing is encouraging people to have some backbone and ask questions. It might help the next person along in line, which is the whole point of this website.

The problem is, they have rules. The embassy is treated just like a military installation, not everyone has the right to go in. Try going to a military base in the US that is funded by Tax dollars, and many times has both private and military working the front gate. Try to enter a military base or start asking peoples names at the gate, you will see how quickly you will be taken down and dragged away.

The fact is if you have business in the embassy you will be let in, if you do not you won't be, plain and simple. Your fiance had business at the embassy you did not. The other part is who cares if it takes 4 trips to the embassy do you not have enough baht to take the cab ride there? People get sick, computers have problems, It is an inconvenience but not the end of the world. Why do they need to answer to you, they don't.

The other part is they used to let people in with their wives/fiances, and some ####### had to get belligerent and hit a CO, well guess what that one guy ruined it for the rest of us. When I was there, I asked very politely if I could speak to the CO, and he let me come in and talk to him. I told him I appreciate the opportunity to talk to him, and he said the girls said I was calm and didn't seem upset, so he took the time to talk to me.

[*Robert* 2]

I want to be very clear about two points.

A. I'm not an #######, I didn't yell at anyone. I camly asked them to explain themselves. That combined with asking for names was enough to instill panic in about 6 people. That shows me that they didn't really understand the policy they were 'following', I hope they weren't making it up as they went.

B. I'm not upset. I'm just looking for some accountability at an American Embassy owned and run by Americans and funded with tax dollars.

Frankly, I think you're out of line calling me an ####, an #######, etc. when all I'm doing is encouraging people to have some backbone and ask questions. It might help the next person along in line, which is the whole point of this website.

In case you're missing it, no one is dissagreeing with what I said. You need to take a chill pill and go back and read what I wrote, as I never called YOU anything. The fact that it is your posts that keep getting filled up with "#" signs shows you're the one with anger management issues.

I'm glad you didn't yell, because the way you act on here I wouldn't have been a bit surprised.

You asked their names for what possible reason? Because they were doing their job? If you have issues, contact your Congressman or Senator. Intimidating Thai national Embassy workers doesn't do anything but cause more problems for the rest of the Americans needing to do business with the Embassy. Your actions will do nothing to help the next person in line.

You got the visa... get over it and move on.

[DaveTX 2]

I'd have been angry too but I've learned, painfully, that often it doesn't matter whether you are right or not-- especially dealing with a government entity. Maybe their behavior was some combination of stupid, lazy, silly, unprofessional and maybe you could prove it to someone who would care but at what cost? You got the visa... chalk it up as a win and get on with your life together. This doesn't seem like a worthwhile battle.

Hell at this point... the Thai nationals working the embassy can call me stupid ATM farang and moon me if it'll get my fiancee here faster.... Take comfort in the fact that you and your fiancee will likely lead a measurably better life than they will. If being petty to you makes em sleep better at night, be magnanimous since they are no longer your problem!

[toma1 10]

You got the visa... chalk it up as a win and get on with your life together. This doesn't seem like a worthwhile battle.

That's exactly right.

This kind of behavior actually has a name, of course:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tilting_at_windmills

[anya-D 8]

Thailand is a monarchy

which comes with a structured heirarchy where each official has his/her own level

of self-importance.

'was' is a right word here.. we hold dear to our king but we are not a monarchy.

and wow.. Dan, calm down.. I've work in both countries (and more) and there are problems in all of them, thought the problems normally differ depend on the person background and culture. not all american are from the same culture, you know *wink* like me

Thai person a lot of time lack confidence in making a call - or will lose confidence quickly if confronted (especially by a big american) - that doesnt mean they dont know what they are doing.

And Congratulation to everyone who got the visa in hand.. there really is a light at the end of the road.. Chutima and I are proof!! WE ARE DONE!@!!

PS.. it didnt feel any difference though.. being an American

[thongd4me 69]

I absolutely agree with you Thong, except for one thing, the American Embassy is supposed to be run by Americans, not Thais.

In the past CO's who have set up their own kingdoms have been a big source of distress to the people on this board (Think Heart of Darkness or Marlon Brando in Apocalypse Now). I don't mind keeping an eye on them.

Charlie don't surf!

You're right about the American embassy not actually being run by Americans,

but it's the Americans in charge who have allowed that to happen. It's an ugly

situation for us who have an emotional stake in the results. Americans have a

tendency to be more confrontational and direct (we say honest) while Thais

have their own standards for behavior (most of which I haven't figured out yet).

I'm no expert on Thai culture, but try to make every encounter a learning experience

as much as possible.

I told my SO about what was discussed on VJ and she said that on the Thai US

visa discussion site, there were numerous cases where the behavior of Thais

working at the US (and UK, from other sources) consulate stepped way outside

of acceptable behavior parameters for Thais. That is something neither the petitioner

nor the beneficiary has much control over. It's possible the Thais working there

think THAT is what acceptable American behavior is so they act accordingly.

Again, we can't control that.

I don't know if it's better to insult the client outright or politely smile while giving

absolutely no results or service. The DMV and IRS come to mind. Sometimes it's

the structure of the bureaucratic system itself that promotes a certain type of behavior.

You're not an a$$hole but you're emotionally drained & frustrated.

[thongd4me 69]

Thailand is a monarchy

which comes with a structured heirarchy where each official has his/her own level

of self-importance.

'was' is a right word here.. we hold dear to our king but we are not a monarchy.

and wow.. Dan, calm down.. I've work in both countries (and more) and there are problems in all of them, thought the problems normally differ depend on the person background and culture. not all american are from the same culture, you know *wink* like me

Thai person a lot of time lack confidence in making a call - or will lose confidence quickly if confronted (especially by a big american) - that doesnt mean they dont know what they are doing.

And Congratulation to everyone who got the visa in hand.. there really is a light at the end of the road.. Chutima and I are proof!! WE ARE DONE!@!!

PS.. it didnt feel any difference though.. being an American

You're right Thailand is a constitutional monarchy with the powers of the king being very limited.

However in history he has shown to be a good and strong leader.

Differences from the UK, for example, are that ALL Thais willingly prostrate themselves before

the King or higher royal personages than themselves. That seems to emphasize monarchy

and the idea that power comes from above, even though the king is said to be the embodiment

of the Thai people. The king is definitely a good one and my SO says all good things come from the King.

[daboyz 36]

Thailand is a monarchy

which comes with a structured heirarchy where each official has his/her own level

of self-importance.

'was' is a right word here.. we hold dear to our king but we are not a monarchy.

and wow.. Dan, calm down.. I've work in both countries (and more) and there are problems in all of them, thought the problems normally differ depend on the person background and culture. not all american are from the same culture, you know *wink* like me

Thai person a lot of time lack confidence in making a call - or will lose confidence quickly if confronted (especially by a big american) - that doesnt mean they dont know what they are doing.

And Congratulation to everyone who got the visa in hand.. there really is a light at the end of the road.. Chutima and I are proof!! WE ARE DONE!@!!

PS.. it didnt feel any difference though.. being an American

You're right Thailand is a constitutional monarchy with the powers of the king being very limited.

However in history he has shown to be a good and strong leader.

Differences from the UK, for example, are that ALL Thais willingly prostrate themselves before

the King or higher royal personages than themselves. That seems to emphasize monarchy

and the idea that power comes from above, even though the king is said to be the embodiment

of the Thai people. The king is definitely a good one and my SO says all good things come from the King.

I remember a particular episode in Thai politics. I think it was 2005. Thaksin called for elections. The opposition boycotted the elections. Thaksin won in a landslide of course due to the boycott. He went on TV and arrogantly claimed success smiling and happy. A couple hours later he was summoned to meet with the king. Later that night Thaksin was on TV crying. He called new elections shortly after, and then the coup happened.

I guess the point is although it is a constitutional monarchy, the king has a higher respect from the people than for example the queen of England. He is a good man and has done alot for Thailand. I personally respect him very much. Thailand would not be what it is today if it was not for his guidance. Look at the bordering countries. Most are in disarray except for Malaysia. I credit that to the King, not the endless corrupt politicians in Thailand's history.

Until they figure this mess out between the rural population and the "elite" in Bangkok, it's gonna be a non stop mess politically.

[ThaiStyleUSA 1]

Wow! Did I served in the wrong war? I am Thai with naturalized American citizenship. I had sacrificed my life for 22 yrs in the UNITED STATES AIR FORCE and still do as civil service. I had served in 2 desert wars. Now... I had gone through the same process as everyone else or perhaps more difficult than others. I had my ups and downs but I always thankful that my SO is here with me. That's all that matters. Congratulations to all approvals and good luck to ones with the process.

[Roong_Rob 0]

... She was asked to interview in English though. Wasn't expecting that.

For those Fiancees that have interviewed in the past six months, has it been their experience that they are asked to interview in English?

I would appreciate everone's experience. Thanks

[Busaiteen 0]

I lived in Bkk for 6 years (Chula kid) and from what I know the interviewers start off in English. If the interviewee cant keep up they will switch to Thai.

As far as Embassy frustrations go, just remember that showing a bit of KRENG JAI will go a far far way with most Thais and in most situations.