Top U.S official: There's no way to stop Iran's nuclear program

[spookyturtle 9,465]

I would never defend the Soviet Union for its actions before, or after the Great War, but I find American opinions very interesting about their role in WWII.

Here is some quick facts for you. 21.3 MILLION Russians lost their lives in WW2. British AND American deaths? 888 THOUSAND. That includes the Pacific arena...

Who fought the WW2(Europe)?... Well it almost could be characterized as a war between Germany and Russia. In fact, outside 3 certain countries, it is.

It seems a comman fallacy that America/Brits won the war. They never took Berlin. Yet lots of Americans talk like that. We have been kind of brain-washed since youth to think like that. Yes, American equipment helped the Russians immensly, and the 'Western front' served as a great distraction to what was going on in the East. I am very proud of my country for stepping in and making the sacrifice. But...

Anyway, that was a long time ago, and peoples distortion of the facts really do not make a difference. But, then again, it is worth remembering who really paid the price for Germany and Hilter's madness.

Americans didn't take Berlin because their armies were ordered to halt their advance so Russia could "liberate" Berlin.

Well, that is not historical fact, it is only speculation. Eisenhower himself gave a different account.

"Eisenhower offered three reasons for his decision to abandon a northern advance to Berlin and instead target those remaining German forces in the south. First and foremost were the zones of occupation. Eisenhower himself had argued against these zones, specifically the placement of Berlin deep in the Soviet zone. Once this decision had been made, however, all strategic planning at SHAEF (Supreme Headquarters, Allied Expeditionary Force) took these boundaries into consideration. Although Eisenhower was willing to alter his plans if ordered to do so, there would be no such orders from Washington.

Eisenhower and American General Omar Bradley, Commander of the 12th Army Group, also believed that the capture of Berlin would entail huge losses for the attacking forces. Critics have dismissed Bradley's estimate of 100,000 casualties as far too pessimistic, as it would mean a greater number of casualties than the Americans had suffered since landing at Normandy. However, it should be noted that the Soviet Union placed their own casualties as over 300,000 in the two weeks of fighting from the Oder to the collapse of Berlin. This number included killed, wounded and missing. Interestingly, recent western sources place the total casualties suffered by the Soviets as even higher. "

This source is from the University of California College of Graduate Studies. Again, it is funny how speculation turns into fact. We think that doesn't happen in America, but it happens all the time.

So you chose to believe this speculation, I choose to believe my sources of study. Do you seriously believe that the US couldn't have taken Berlin or for that matter Russia?

How is that speculation? It is historical fact? If you truly studied this, you wouldn't argue against this.

Yes US (we) could have taken Berlin. But they would have lost hundreds of thousands more. They were smart not to. No, I do not think they could have taken Russia. Sure, they could have fought them and won 'numbers', but we would never have won the hearts and minds of the poeple, which means we would lose. That is speculation of course, but how can it not be for events that never happened?

Our losses would have been less than Russia. We knew how to fight better and had better equipment. And how well would Russia have done against us if we weren't helping them. Stalin killed more Russians than the Germans did.

[Chuckles 0]

I would never defend the Soviet Union for its actions before, or after the Great War, but I find American opinions very interesting about their role in WWII.

Here is some quick facts for you. 21.3 MILLION Russians lost their lives in WW2. British AND American deaths? 888 THOUSAND. That includes the Pacific arena...

Who fought the WW2(Europe)?... Well it almost could be characterized as a war between Germany and Russia. In fact, outside 3 certain countries, it is.

It seems a comman fallacy that America/Brits won the war. They never took Berlin. Yet lots of Americans talk like that. We have been kind of brain-washed since youth to think like that. Yes, American equipment helped the Russians immensly, and the 'Western front' served as a great distraction to what was going on in the East. I am very proud of my country for stepping in and making the sacrifice. But...

Anyway, that was a long time ago, and peoples distortion of the facts really do not make a difference. But, then again, it is worth remembering who really paid the price for Germany and Hilter's madness.

Americans didn't take Berlin because their armies were ordered to halt their advance so Russia could "liberate" Berlin.

Well, that is not historical fact, it is only speculation. Eisenhower himself gave a different account.

"Eisenhower offered three reasons for his decision to abandon a northern advance to Berlin and instead target those remaining German forces in the south. First and foremost were the zones of occupation. Eisenhower himself had argued against these zones, specifically the placement of Berlin deep in the Soviet zone. Once this decision had been made, however, all strategic planning at SHAEF (Supreme Headquarters, Allied Expeditionary Force) took these boundaries into consideration. Although Eisenhower was willing to alter his plans if ordered to do so, there would be no such orders from Washington.

Eisenhower and American General Omar Bradley, Commander of the 12th Army Group, also believed that the capture of Berlin would entail huge losses for the attacking forces. Critics have dismissed Bradley's estimate of 100,000 casualties as far too pessimistic, as it would mean a greater number of casualties than the Americans had suffered since landing at Normandy. However, it should be noted that the Soviet Union placed their own casualties as over 300,000 in the two weeks of fighting from the Oder to the collapse of Berlin. This number included killed, wounded and missing. Interestingly, recent western sources place the total casualties suffered by the Soviets as even higher. "

This source is from the University of California College of Graduate Studies. Again, it is funny how speculation turns into fact. We think that doesn't happen in America, but it happens all the time.

So you chose to believe this speculation, I choose to believe my sources of study. Do you seriously believe that the US couldn't have taken Berlin or for that matter Russia?

How is that speculation? It is historical fact? If you truly studied this, you wouldn't argue against this.

Yes US (we) could have taken Berlin. But they would have lost hundreds of thousands more. They were smart not to. No, I do not think they could have taken Russia. Sure, they could have fought them and won 'numbers', but we would never have won the hearts and minds of the poeple, which means we would lose. That is speculation of course, but how can it not be for events that never happened?

Our losses would have been less than Russia. We knew how to fight better and had better equipment. And how well would Russia have done against us if we weren't helping them. Stalin killed more Russians than the Germans did.

Dude, I'm afraid you are way off. As much of a mass-murderer as Stalin was, most historians agree that about 3 million Russians died as a result of Stalins rule/orders. So you are off by a magnitude of x7. Not very good. Better go read those history books again !!! And not the ones they handed out in 6th grade.

Yes, I agree, our losses would have been less. Pure speculation though. A good counter argument could be made that the Russians were a lot more battle hardened (hard to argue with) and better trained through experience. You have to remember, a few things. The Germans were way more technically advanced in those days. We were still 'green' as a military force. I love my countrymen who fought and died there, but don't let patriotism cloud your vision of the facts.