a disporportionate Response to Gaza

[Yoink 7]

'Crossings, 1,000 prisoners for Schalit'

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid...icle%2FShowFull

Israel has offered to open the Gaza crossings and free 1,000 prisoners in exchange for captured IDF soldier Gilad Schalit, Ayman Taha, a member of the Hamas team currently holding talks in Cairo was quoted as saying Monday.

'Israel has increased number of Palestinian prisoners for Schalit'

Taha spoke to the Egyptian newspaper Al-Ahram after meeting with Egyptian intelligence chief Omar Suleiman.

An Israeli defense official had said on Sunday that Jerusalem was considering linking the opening of the Gaza crossings with negotiations for Schalit's release.

"The operation has created new understandings between us and Hamas," one Israeli official explained. "Hamas knows that if it renews attacks we will not be restrained."

Taha said Sunday that Hamas had rejected an Israeli offer for an 18-month truce. He said the offer had been relayed to Hamas through Suleiman and other Egyptian officials.

Meanwhile, Asharq Al-Awsat on Monday quoted unnamed Israeli officials as saying that Egypt was pressing Hamas to ease their demands in negotiations with Israel before the upcoming elections, which Cairo predicted Likud leader Binyamin Netanyahu would win.

According to the London-based pan-Arab daily, the Egyptians believed that Prime Minister Ehud Olmert wanted to end his term with a major agreement that would include Schalit's release, while Netanyahu would adopt a harder line in talks on a Gaza truce.

Therefore, according to the officials, Egypt saw the next few weeks of Olmert's term as an opportunity for a preferable agreement that Hamas should not miss.

On Sunday, Hamas legislator Mushir al-Masri said that the group was prepared to reach a one-year truce with Israel if the border crossings into Gaza are opened.

He said that the Hamas delegation currently holding talks with Egyptian government officials made it clear that the movement would not agree to a long-term or permanent truce.

"Hamas has proposed a one-year truce that would be evaluated [by Hamas] when it expires," Masri said. "We are talking about a temporary truce that would be contingent on the reopening of all the border crossings, including the Rafah terminal, and lifting the blockade."

A permanent truce would "contradict Hamas's right to pursue the resistance for as long as the occupation exists," he said.

However, Masri said the truce issue had nothing to do with Schalit.

"The Israeli soldier is not linked in any way to the issue of the truce or the border crossings," he said. "Rather, the case of the soldier is connected to a future prisoner exchange. No one should dream that Schalit will see his family if the border crossings aren't reopened."

However, according to Palestinian sources quoted in Asharq al-Awsat, considerable progress has been made toward a deal to free Schalit, which could go through within three weeks if Israel changes its position on freeing prisoners with "blood on their hands."

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

Wow. 1000 for 1? Real 'fair'. How about 1 for 1?

[Yoink 7]

Wow. 1000 for 1? Real 'fair'. How about 1 for 1?

It isn't fair though it speaks to the moral integrity of Israelis and how they continue to protect and respect their citizens lives at any cost. Even international damnation

[alienlovechild 75]

Wow. 1000 for 1? Real 'fair'. How about 1 for 1?

It's always like this. Israel can capture more Palestinians than the other way around. Usually, the Israelis only get back dead bodies.

"Over the last 30 years, Israel has released about 7,000 prisoners to secure freedom for 19 Israelis and to retrieve the bodies of eight others. A number of diplomatic efforts have been made to secure the release of Israeli IDF personnel following their capture by enemy forces."

"The most recent case where Israel obtained live prisoners in return came in October 2000 on Shebaa Farms, when Hezbollah captured three IDF soldiers who were killed either during the operation or in its immediate aftermath. Hezbollah sought to obtain the release of 14 Lebanese prisoners in exchange, together with Palestinian prisoners.[3] A prisoner swap was carried out on 29 January 2004: in exchange for Israeli businessman and former army colonel Elchanan Tenenbaum abducted in 2000 in Kuwait, and the remains of the three IDF soldiers mentioned above Israel released 30 Lebanese and 400 Palestinian prisoners, handed over the remains of 59 Lebanese militants and civilians, and maps showing Israeli mines in South Lebanon."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_MIA_prisoner_exchanges

[doodlebugg 10]

Wow. 1000 for 1? Real 'fair'. How about 1 for 1?

If Israel believed in 1 for 1 we wouldn't have over 1,000 dead from the recent massacre of Gazans.

Edited January 26, 2009 by humpkinpumpkin

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Wow. 1000 for 1? Real 'fair'. How about 1 for 1?

It isn't fair though it speaks to the moral integrity of Israelis and how they continue to protect and respect their citizens lives at any cost. Even international damnation

Perhaps, but at the same time - they have just flattened a huge residential district at the cost of 1000+ lives and made many more people homeless.

"Morally ambiguous" would probably be a more apt description.

[luckytxn 2,264]

I am so glad that Israeli soldiers are getting to go back home to their families.

[Yoink 7]

Massacre is a distortion of events. The US and now the EU leadership is blaming Hamas for using civilians as shields

Wow. 1000 for 1? Real 'fair'. How about 1 for 1?

It isn't fair though it speaks to the moral integrity of Israelis and how they continue to protect and respect their citizens lives at any cost. Even international damnation

Perhaps, but at the same time - they have just flattened a huge residential district at the cost of 1000+ lives and made many more people homeless.

"Morally ambiguous" would probably be a more apt description.

I am comparing the hamas' view of the lives of its citizens versus the Israelis view of their citizenship. I am not comparing Israelis intergrity to the equal value of all person's lives. That wouldn't even make sense in war. In war you fight to win. Disporportionate force makes sense in war. You win

I am so glad that Israeli soldiers are getting to go back home to their families.

not a deal yet just an offer on the table

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Massacre is a distortion of events. The US and now the EU leadership is blaming Hamas for using civilians as shields

Wow. 1000 for 1? Real 'fair'. How about 1 for 1?

It isn't fair though it speaks to the moral integrity of Israelis and how they continue to protect and respect their citizens lives at any cost. Even international damnation

Perhaps, but at the same time - they have just flattened a huge residential district at the cost of 1000+ lives and made many more people homeless.

"Morally ambiguous" would probably be a more apt description.

I am comparing the hamas' view of the lives of its citizens versus the Israelis view of their citizenship. I am not comparing Israelis intergrity to the equal value of all person's lives. That wouldn't even make sense in war. In war you fight to win. Disporportionate force makes sense in war. You win

You appear to be saying that morality applies only to the context in which you want it to have value.

In that view trading 1000 people for 1 is not terribly dissimilar from killing 1000 people as retaliation for 14.

Selective reasoning, surely.

[Yoink 7]

trading 1000 lives for 1 to free a kidnapped soldier on Israeli land will probably cause more death on both sides. IN that moment though no one dies.

Hamas took political and military action against a nation and thus there was justification why 1000+ palestinians died.

[alienlovechild 75]

You appear to be saying that morality applies only to the context in which you want it to have value.

In that view trading 1000 people for 1 is not terribly dissimilar from killing 1000 people as retaliation for 14.

Selective reasoning, surely.

Care to show us where you read that the Israelis have some kind of body count ratio?

Prisoner swaps have numbers as part of the deal. There's no set number Palestinians who must be killed in revenge as far as I know.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

You appear to be saying that morality applies only to the context in which you want it to have value.

In that view trading 1000 people for 1 is not terribly dissimilar from killing 1000 people as retaliation for 14.

Selective reasoning, surely.

Care to show us where you read that the Israelis have some kind of body count ratio?

Prisoner swaps have numbers as part of the deal. There's no set number Palestinians who must be killed in revenge as far as I know.

It was an observation Alien (i.e. nothing to get your panties in a twist over) made specifically in relation to the comment that offering 1000 prisoners in exchange for 1 amounts to some sort of moral superiority.

Hamas took political and military action against a nation and thus there was justification why 1000+ palestinians died.

That was the reason that was given in justification. I don't think too many people believe it - hence the international outrage.

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

Wow. 1000 for 1? Real 'fair'. How about 1 for 1?

If Israel believed in 1 for 1 we wouldn't have over 1,000 dead from the recent massacre of Gazans.

You're right. I guess it all works out in the end.