I have noticed one optimistic thing

[bryonm4 0]

[

Bryon - So was your actual reason for denial LACK OF BONAFIDE RELATIONSHIP? How long did you spend on your first trip to see her? Good luck to you

Jonas

I was there form december 12 to december 24th of 2007 that was the first time we met in person but I have emails and letters that date back to april of 2007 Here was my denial

The consulate general is unable to issue a visa to you because you have been found ineligible under the followiung sections of the US immigration and natinality act as amended

Section 221 g of the act prohibiits the isuance of a visa to anyone who has failed to present the documents required in connection with the visa application or who has failed to submit sufficiant credible evidence to support the claimed petitionable relationship. The following remarkds apply in your case

Petitioner has only vistited beneficiary one and has not returned since decmeber 2007

IN contrast to vietname social and cultural norms which mandate a lngthy and careful period of pre-nuptial arrangements, petitioner and beneificiary became engaged within two weeks of meeting

Beneficiary is unaware of basic facts of petioners occupation background(current previous occupations, employer/income source and/or other basic facts). For example, beneficiary was unaware of the petitioners occupation.

Benificiary is unaware of basic facts of petitioners educational backgroun(I.e. level of education, principle course of study for advanced schooling, where schooling took place ect.) For example, although the petioner refers to a discussion between him and the beneficiary about coming to vietname after the petitoner finishes college in a notorized schonology of the relationship, in interview the beneficiary did not know where the petioner is going to college

These facts as ascertained by consular officers would convince a reasonable person taht the claimed relationship is a sham entered into soley for immigration purposes and to evade immigration laws. Therefore pursuant to 9FAM 41.81 the reviewing officer has decided that the petion should be returned to the US citizenship and immigration services USCIS with the recomendation that i tbe revoked. The case will next be reviewed by the immigratn visa chief and will be returned to USCIS for review and possible revocation upon his concurrence with the reviewing officers decision. When USCIS recives the returned petition they will contact the petitioner, who will have an opportunity to reubt consular findings concerning this case. If USCIS revokes the petion benificiary will become inellgible for a visa under section 212a6ci of the act

[luckytxn 2,265]

Sounds great Byron. Many do pass the second time but as said before by that time they know a lot more that is required and do much research and then go get it done. You can get a visa for her. Sometimes things may be harder but just have to know that if she is worth it and you are both patient that the visa will come. Just be methodical and double check everything along the way. The best thing is you know what was wrong the first time. You will have time to correct those things. In that time you both can get to know each other more very well. She will have a lot of time to learn also English and anything else.

I just kept saying to myself and I believed it wholeheartedly that they may as well give me the visa now because they will eventually. No matter what they wanted or threw at me I was going to overcome. Good luck and God bless. We are here for any help.

[bryonm4 0]

Sounds like you have calmed down then from the posts I saw not too long ago. ME is a good choice as he has much experience and at this consulate. I personally think you can do it on your own and even with ME there you will have to do a lot on your own.

If you plan on going with the they lied and so on then you are doomed. How about from now on try to just say that there was a misunderstanding among all and then go on and do what is needed to get a visa for your loved one? Of course get the first visa resolved first as even though you say you told them to just drop it they will keep at it. Once that is done then figure out what visa is best for you both. Start fresh and go in and do what is needed at each stage of the way properly and correctly. Get her English up to par to do the interview in English only as it seems you only have two choices here, English or Vietnamese. Get a timeline together from the beginning. Make a paper stating how you both met. Get this story straight totally and then go on. Keep up a correspondence that can be proven by downloading all chats and phone records. Make a paper also for yourselves of any problems that you see and be proactive and see how this can be explained satisfactory. (There are a few)

If you insist on being antagonistic with the embassy I will guarantee you will lose. Makes no difference what you think you have against them. Also stop being so scattered and all over the place. Calm down and take a breath. This process is already hard enough without theatrics.

I never saved chat logs before all I submitted for evedence was phone records, emails,letters and screen prints that show me and her chatting on yahoo messingers. It does show some chat on the screen print. The reason I never printed out or saved the logs is we talk over the microphone almost the whole time so there is very little typed and its out of context so nobody could make sense of what we typed.

[Dau_Que 0]

Before I submitted the paperwork to the INS for the very first time, I consulted a local immigration lawyer. He sat down, listened carefully to the "timeline" of my relationship with my wife (back then still friends, then fiance after my second trip), drew the timeline on a sheet of paper (so he could keep track and put a check-mark by the steps that I accomplished). His advice for me from the first day was:

Make at least 3 trips, the first to meet each other, getting to know her and may be her family. The second should be similar to the first and should be at least 6 months apart from the first trip.

The Third is the most important, the Engagement ceremony.

My Father-in-Law is a superstitious man and he wants certain days for the Engagement ceremony. I don't share the same thinking, but I was marrying his daughter. Because of this issue, I decided NOT to listen to my lawyer and had the Engagement ceremony on the second trip and spent Christmas with my wife on the 3rd trip, which was only a couple months after the 2nd trip. I was extremely nervous when I mailed the petition, knowing that I didn't follow my lawyer's advice to the T, but I did realize how important the 3-trip recommendation is!!

Whether you agree with this thinking or not is up to you. You need patience (time between the 3 trips) and planning the events during these trips carefully. That's the key to your success.

[SaigonLuv 0]

What do you guys think about this situation: If a person gets engaged on the first trip but has made multiple trips after - is that still valid? Thanx

[bryonm4 0]

What do you guys think about this situation: If a person gets engaged on the first trip but has made multiple trips after - is that still valid? Thanx

Yeah if you have documented relationship before the first trip. I found a website with good info its apexvisa.com go under criticle information they give allot of good advice. I only wished I had found it before I started this process along with this website.

[luckytxn 2,265]

Saving the chat logs is just one of the things I mentioned as that is what I do a lot. Just save any communication no matter what it is to show a relationship.

Dpnh. I understand why it is important to make multiple trips and all but I made only one myself and even had a engagement party about a week later while there. We did have a lot of correspondence before and a whole lot after though and got a visa. I even let them know at the beginning that I was introduced to her by a Aunt. Have no idea why they accepted that and not from others. I sent a lot of stuff that they never asked for also and doubt that it helped also. Strange for sure.

Saigonluv. See no reason why that would not be acceptable. Going back again after the engagement would seem to be solidifying the relationship and help.

[luckytxn 2,265]

Also Byron. I see from the rejection reasons no reason why they could not be overcome. This stuff has happened to others and then the second time around gets ok'ed. If you want this visa bad enough then just go get it.

[bryonm4 0]

Also Byron. I see from the rejection reasons no reason why they could not be overcome. This stuff has happened to others and then the second time around gets ok'ed. If you want this visa bad enough then just go get it.

Thanks for the words of encouragement. I plan to marry her sometime in march then go back about 2 months later to pick up the marriage certificate. I was also told on a K1 they look at the info up until the time of engagement and with the k3 they look at the info up until the time of marriage. I didn't have alot of info up until the time of engament saved because I didn't know I was supposed to but I have a ton of info saved up until the time of marriage because now I know to do it. So that should make a big difference also.

[Peter&TT 0]

Also Byron. I see from the rejection reasons no reason why they could not be overcome. This stuff has happened to others and then the second time around gets ok'ed. If you want this visa bad enough then just go get it.

Thanks for the words of encouragement. I plan to marry her sometime in march then go back about 2 months later to pick up the marriage certificate. I was also told on a K1 they look at the info up until the time of engagement and with the k3 they look at the info up until the time of marriage. I didn't have alot of info up until the time of engament saved because I didn't know I was supposed to but I have a ton of info saved up until the time of marriage because now I know to do it. So that should make a big difference also.

Be prepared for obtaining a marriage certificate in Vietnam, especially time. I don't want to sound discouraging but getting a marriage certificate in Vietnam takes a lot of time, especially when it involves foreigners. I said that because most local polices in Vietnam will ask for bribery if they know you desperately need a marriage certificate for visa purposes. They will ask you wait, come back and so on. If you have a lot of time to spend in VN, then do a K3; otherwise do a K1. (The most troublesome I find with K3 is to get the marriage cert in VN whereas with K1 you do all paperworks in the US which is very straightforward and transparent.)

Good luck.

Cam

[bryonm4 0]

Also Byron. I see from the rejection reasons no reason why they could not be overcome. This stuff has happened to others and then the second time around gets ok'ed. If you want this visa bad enough then just go get it.

Thanks for the words of encouragement. I plan to marry her sometime in march then go back about 2 months later to pick up the marriage certificate. I was also told on a K1 they look at the info up until the time of engagement and with the k3 they look at the info up until the time of marriage. I didn't have alot of info up until the time of engament saved because I didn't know I was supposed to but I have a ton of info saved up until the time of marriage because now I know to do it. So that should make a big difference also.

Be prepared for obtaining a marriage certificate in Vietnam, especially time. I don't want to sound discouraging but getting a marriage certificate in Vietnam takes a lot of time, especially when it involves foreigners. I said that because most local polices in Vietnam will ask for bribery if they know you desperately need a marriage certificate for visa purposes. They will ask you wait, come back and so on. If you have a lot of time to spend in VN, then do a K3; otherwise do a K1. (The most troublesome I find with K3 is to get the marriage cert in VN whereas with K1 you do all paperworks in the US which is very straightforward and transparent.)

Good luck.

Cam

Im actually taking 2 weeks in vietnam to get married and do the paperwork and then I will come back in a month or two to pick up the certificate. I have a person there helping with the paperwork so there will be no rush on it. They will let me know I think about a month ahead of time when the interview will be so it shouldn't be any problem. I failed at the K1 because I was not prepared and from what I hear if you get the K1 denied its almost impossible to get it approved of a second time although I have heard of some success cases. I'm going with what M.E. suggested and I also think taking the extra trip will work in our benifit because every trip you take adds to the bonafides.

Thanks

[morocco4ever 63]

When the deficiencies that got the first visa denied are overcome then the second visa is usually good to go. Most that have gone through it once learn the process and know more what is expected the second go around. That makes it a lot easier. Now if there were some serious problems the first time and you can't overcome them then no matter how many times you try one will not receive a visa. From what I remember from the problems you had they suspected a fraud happening. That is very tough to overcome and just switching from K1 to K3 will not insure a visa. Good luck and God bless.

1. they denied because I only made 1 vist.

Only 1 visit is required for a visa also in a notorized chonology I stated my job changed on april 14th so I couldn't take time of for second trip yet. I will have to take more trips to marry her so that will be overcome

2. they denied because of vietnam social norms and I proposed after meeting within 2 weeks

Vietname social norms do no set American policy I also sent a notorized chonology stating we started communicating online back on aprli 28th meaning we met online back on april 28th so we actually met over 6 months before not 2 weeks. That should be overcome if we get an interviewer thats fair and looks at the emails and letters we have 6 months before I proposed and not looking for things to make up to deny us the visa

3. they stated she didn't know where I worked what I did for work or where I went to school.

She stated where I work and they didn't understand her english but its not that bad, she also stated what I did and was never asked where I went to school but they lied and used those as all reasons against us to deny the visa. Her English is better now and if I make more trips they wont deny her just because she is not fluent in English

The real reason I think they denied us was that I only made 1 trip and when they asked her how we met she said I told my brother I wanted a husband and my brother friend is friends with Bryon. If we have her brother and my friend sign an affidavit saying how they met and how the pictures were exchanged and I take more trips it should be easy to overcome. There was no fraud and I will be there for her next interview to fight on BS reason they give this time

I hope I can be of some assistance to you. I haven't read this entire thread however, so if I repeat what has been already stated please forgive me.

First off many of the I-12f petitions that are denied and sent back the USCIS are expiring. This is totally dependent to the service center that initially denied your petition. You are going to want to contact your senator/congressmans office to assist you with this. When was the denial? Do you know if for sure it has left the consulate? They are not always truthful with you, so it is very helpful to get your representative involved. They will sent it via diplomatic pouch, and they will give it a registry number. If by chance it is still at the consulate it would be wise to tell your experience to your representative, and to ask for assistance in convincing the consulate to give you the opportunity to give them proof that will address their concerns.

There are some flags, yes. You are actually lucky that they gave you any reasons at all. I would gather all sorts of information that can back up their concerns. But you did say something that struck a note with the above bolded statement. You see, at my husbands interview it was going pretty good until they asked him if he had relatives in the US. He said he had an ex brother in law and a sister. Now they assumed that the ex brother in law was american, and was married to the sister, and they got divorced. They asked him why they got divorced. Here is the real story. The ex brother in law is Moroccan, and was married to his sister in Morocco. They got divorced and he came to the US. The sister that is here is a different sister, and she married a man that is a Moroccan, but has his US citizenship. They are still together. So as you can see it was a big mix up.

The interview continued, but was about the sister, not me and my husband. They asked when was the first time I spoke with this sister. They asked how often we spoke, when we met, etc. They even asked if his sister arranged our marriage. Now think about this last statement I said. They are asking if she paid me to marry him. This is why I am bringing this up to you. I would bet that the consulate has a similar idea about your relationship with your fiance. Add in that you had only been to visit once, and the lack of her knowledge, or ability to express, facts about you. I can see how they could come to this conclusion.

Your first move it to keep it at the consulate and gather evidence to address their concerns. If you are one of the lucky few they might give you another chance. But if not then you will still need this evidence if the USCIS sends you a NOIR (notice of intent to revoke), or if it is cancelled and you need to refile. One way or the other you are going to have to address these concerns or you will get another denial.

If they have truly sent it back then your representative will need to work with the USCIS to find if they have decided to expire your petitions. They won't send out a notice if they do, so you are left hanging on what to do next. If they choose to expire it you will be free to file again. At that point I would think very seriously about going back as often as possible and getting married. They are looking for a solid commitment, not a once meeting and poof you are together.

This link, although large, will give you plenty of material to study.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=3896

Do not despair. It has happened to many of us in Morocco. We have fought and we have one. My husband has been here 2 years now. It took an additional 15 months after his interview to get him here, and it was well worth the fight. I am, however, exhausted from it. This is not a journey for a weak relationship.

[hniHnitsuJ 8]

Im actually taking 2 weeks in vietnam to get married and do the paperwork and then I will come back in a month or two to pick up the certificate. I have a person there helping with the paperwork so there will be no rush on it. They will let me know I think about a month ahead of time when the interview will be so it shouldn't be any problem. I failed at the K1 because I was not prepared and from what I hear if you get the K1 denied its almost impossible to get it approved of a second time although I have heard of some success cases. I'm going with what M.E. suggested and I also think taking the extra trip will work in our benifit because every trip you take adds to the bonafides.

Thanks

Are you working on CR1? I went back to VN last year. Supposely for only 3 weeks, to get my marriage CERT. Somehow, thing doesn't work out the way I thought it suppose to be, I end up staying for extra 2 weeks. Starting when my wife had submit our paper to SO TU PHAP, and pick up our Marriage Cert (total is 5 weeks that I am staying in VN).

This is how supppose to work. A friend of mine has try it, and work for him less than 3 weeks. If you are planing to get marry in VN, and submit the paperwork for marry CERT. Send the document to your wife2 or 3 weeks before you are planning to going back to VN, as the same time as her to making an appointment with the day you are arriving in VN. After 2 weeks, you will received you received your marry CERT.

for example. sending your document on feb-01, making an appointment or interview on feb-14 (when you in VN), and you will be able to pick you your marry CERT in between feb-28 - March-2. I hope this will help you to safe a trip back to VN. Good luck.

[bryonm4 0]

When the deficiencies that got the first visa denied are overcome then the second visa is usually good to go. Most that have gone through it once learn the process and know more what is expected the second go around. That makes it a lot easier. Now if there were some serious problems the first time and you can't overcome them then no matter how many times you try one will not receive a visa. From what I remember from the problems you had they suspected a fraud happening. That is very tough to overcome and just switching from K1 to K3 will not insure a visa. Good luck and God bless.

1. they denied because I only made 1 vist.

Only 1 visit is required for a visa also in a notorized chonology I stated my job changed on april 14th so I couldn't take time of for second trip yet. I will have to take more trips to marry her so that will be overcome

2. they denied because of vietnam social norms and I proposed after meeting within 2 weeks

Vietname social norms do no set American policy I also sent a notorized chonology stating we started communicating online back on aprli 28th meaning we met online back on april 28th so we actually met over 6 months before not 2 weeks. That should be overcome if we get an interviewer thats fair and looks at the emails and letters we have 6 months before I proposed and not looking for things to make up to deny us the visa

3. they stated she didn't know where I worked what I did for work or where I went to school.

She stated where I work and they didn't understand her english but its not that bad, she also stated what I did and was never asked where I went to school but they lied and used those as all reasons against us to deny the visa. Her English is better now and if I make more trips they wont deny her just because she is not fluent in English

The real reason I think they denied us was that I only made 1 trip and when they asked her how we met she said I told my brother I wanted a husband and my brother friend is friends with Bryon. If we have her brother and my friend sign an affidavit saying how they met and how the pictures were exchanged and I take more trips it should be easy to overcome. There was no fraud and I will be there for her next interview to fight on BS reason they give this time

I hope I can be of some assistance to you. I haven't read this entire thread however, so if I repeat what has been already stated please forgive me.

First off many of the I-12f petitions that are denied and sent back the USCIS are expiring. This is totally dependent to the service center that initially denied your petition. You are going to want to contact your senator/congressmans office to assist you with this. When was the denial? Do you know if for sure it has left the consulate? They are not always truthful with you, so it is very helpful to get your representative involved. They will sent it via diplomatic pouch, and they will give it a registry number. If by chance it is still at the consulate it would be wise to tell your experience to your representative, and to ask for assistance in convincing the consulate to give you the opportunity to give them proof that will address their concerns.

There are some flags, yes. You are actually lucky that they gave you any reasons at all. I would gather all sorts of information that can back up their concerns. But you did say something that struck a note with the above bolded statement. You see, at my husbands interview it was going pretty good until they asked him if he had relatives in the US. He said he had an ex brother in law and a sister. Now they assumed that the ex brother in law was american, and was married to the sister, and they got divorced. They asked him why they got divorced. Here is the real story. The ex brother in law is Moroccan, and was married to his sister in Morocco. They got divorced and he came to the US. The sister that is here is a different sister, and she married a man that is a Moroccan, but has his US citizenship. They are still together. So as you can see it was a big mix up.

The interview continued, but was about the sister, not me and my husband. They asked when was the first time I spoke with this sister. They asked how often we spoke, when we met, etc. They even asked if his sister arranged our marriage. Now think about this last statement I said. They are asking if she paid me to marry him. This is why I am bringing this up to you. I would bet that the consulate has a similar idea about your relationship with your fiance. Add in that you had only been to visit once, and the lack of her knowledge, or ability to express, facts about you. I can see how they could come to this conclusion.

Your first move it to keep it at the consulate and gather evidence to address their concerns. If you are one of the lucky few they might give you another chance. But if not then you will still need this evidence if the USCIS sends you a NOIR (notice of intent to revoke), or if it is cancelled and you need to refile. One way or the other you are going to have to address these concerns or you will get another denial.

If they have truly sent it back then your representative will need to work with the USCIS to find if they have decided to expire your petitions. They won't send out a notice if they do, so you are left hanging on what to do next. If they choose to expire it you will be free to file again. At that point I would think very seriously about going back as often as possible and getting married. They are looking for a solid commitment, not a once meeting and poof you are together.

This link, although large, will give you plenty of material to study.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=3896

Do not despair. It has happened to many of us in Morocco. We have fought and we have one. My husband has been here 2 years now. It took an additional 15 months after his interview to get him here, and it was well worth the fight. I am, however, exhausted from it. This is not a journey for a weak relationship.

Thanks for your response

I have contacted both my senators and my congressman and they sent email and faxes however it was to late my petition was sent back. I think they beleive her brother is paying me to marry her because in the interview they asked how we met and she said "I told my brother I wanted a husband Bryon watned a wife. My brother's friend showed a photo to Bryon. " So with the fact that I only made one trip they might have denied. I asked my senator if I should file a freedom of information act to see why they denied it and she said that will only draw more attention to it and make it harder. After my consult with Marcus Ellis he advised to file rebuttal with affidavits from friend and her brother with explaination of how the photographs was exchanged and how they met. The problem with that is they were friends from a long time ago they don't remember exaclty how they met the lawyer I had before had me send a notorized statment from my friend simular info so I don't know how the results will be any different the next time.

[bryonm4 0]

Here is the notorized statement my previous attorny had me send in with the chronology I took out the names is only difference

To whom it may concern

I am HIS NAME HERE and am a long time friend of HER BROTHER NAME HERE who is the brother of HER NAME HRER. We met well over 10 years ago in Las Vegas while on vacation. I also have known MY NAME HERE for many years; he had done some computer repairs for me many years ago. Both of which have been good friends thru the years. Early 2007 while visiting with MY NAME, he got talking with me and mentioned that he wanted to meet someone with good family values. Later while I was visiting with HER BROTHERS NAME, he had mention to me he had a sister who was single and was interested in meeting a good guy, so I helped get them together.