Compact Fluorescent Lamp Problems.

[john_and_marlene 162]

I replaced all of the bulbs in my house 3 years ago with CFL's and haven't had a single problem. The only thing that annoys me is the bathroom lights (4 of them, the bulb type that mount over a mirror) for some reason take about 20 seconds to spin up. They start really dim and spool up to full brightness. None of my other bulbs do that.

Should mention, I purchased all Sylvania CFL's, maybe that's the wrong brand to buy. Do have many 40 watt fluorescent tubes in my lab, some all are over 25 years old, made in the USA with the old fashion heavy ballast transformer and the starters, those have been 100% reliable. Did purchase a Made in China with an electronic ballast recently, piece of #######.

Those Sylvanias' sure have a dim problem, worthless for trying to find something in a hurry, have to bring a flashlight.

Don't remember what brand mine are. Bought them at Home Depot, they came in a green plastic package.

The irony is that most of us won't see them through their full 7 years. LED lights are starting to catch on fast, and are much more environmentally safe. I expect they'll be mainstream within a couple years.

I switched over to CFL a few years ago and have saved much more on my elec. bill than the bulbs cost. I recently began switching over to LED, but not with total success. I haven't found LED lights that give adequate lighting in every situation. The lights I have found are generally not bright enough to provide general diffuse lighting over large areas. I have switched my outside lights and recessed downlighting lights and decorative chandeleir bulbs. To be able to fully switch, the makers of the LED lights will need to provide brighter, more diffuse general purpose bulbs at a reasonable price.

[NickD 203]

Had to break open that bulb that blew yesterday, electronics is good, but a filament in the tube burnt open.

Wife had to see my daughter-in-laws' Christmas tree with LED C-6's on them, what they have in common is a lot of bulbs, like 800 of them, so we went shopping. Extremely brilliant, was blinding looking at them, and lite up a otherwise dark room. Put on a power meter, was only drawing 34 watts, but cut it to 23 watts with a dimmer, that was more reasonable. Price wasn't that bad either averaging a dime a bulb, the wiring, plugs, receptacles, sockets, fuses, spare bulbs, LEDs', lenses and packaging got me to wondering, what is the motivation for making Christmas light sets?

We could only find 3 sets of multi-colored 100 lamp sets, but purchased five solid colors in clear, red, blue, green, and yellow to make up our own sets, LOL, my fingers are still sore from that. Hope we use those again next year.

[Niels Bohr 72]

Led Light bulbs are available now, only online. They last for approximately 50+ years. Consumes less than CFL. However, they're more expensive.

[kaydee457 13]

Led Light bulbs are available now, only online. They last for approximately 50+ years. Consumes less than CFL. However, they're more expensive.

The wavelength and quality of light from LED's aren't yet mature enought to compete with CFL's and especially incandecent lamps.....

NickD, the circuitry you refer to is called the "ballast" of the lamp and doesn't employ an inverter as almost all CFL's use DC, not AC to produce the ARC Discharge, and then regulate the current through the tube.

Here's a typical schematic of a typical solid state ballast (click on hi-res), but there's a multitude of different approaches to achieve the same result........

I can completely relate to your complaints about the reliability of CFL's as I've gone through a few myself. I'm not sure those that tout these devices for their (theoretical) lifespan are aware of the weak link within, the Ballast........

Edited January 20, 2009 by *entitlements_yay

[Niels Bohr 72]

Led Light bulbs are available now, only online. They last for approximately 50+ years. Consumes less than CFL. However, they're more expensive.

The wavelength and quality of light from LED's aren't yet mature enought to compete with CFL's and especially incandecent lamps.....

NickD, the circuitry you refer to is called the "ballast" of the lamp and doesn't employ an inverter as almost all CFL's use DC, not AC to produce the ARC Discharge, and then regulate the current through the tube.

Here's a typical schematic of a typical solid state ballast (click on hi-res), but there's a multitude of different approaches to achieve the same result........

I can completely relate to your complaints about the reliability of CFL's as I've gone through a few myself. I'm not sure those that tout these devices for their (theoretical) lifespan are aware of the weak link within, the Ballast........

The setup consists of mutiple LEDs with each bulb directed a seperate direction. This will create an illusion of 360 degree light. I've used them.

LEDs have matured, it's just the p-n junction cannot produce more wattage due to the size of the diode without producing heat within tolerable range. The p-n junction will not work if the temperature exceeds its limit.

[kaydee457 13]

Led Light bulbs are available now, only online. They last for approximately 50+ years. Consumes less than CFL. However, they're more expensive.

The wavelength and quality of light from LED's aren't yet mature enought to compete with CFL's and especially incandecent lamps.....

NickD, the circuitry you refer to is called the "ballast" of the lamp and doesn't employ an inverter as almost all CFL's use DC, not AC to produce the ARC Discharge, and then regulate the current through the tube.

Here's a typical schematic of a typical solid state ballast (click on hi-res), but there's a multitude of different approaches to achieve the same result........

I can completely relate to your complaints about the reliability of CFL's as I've gone through a few myself. I'm not sure those that tout these devices for their (theoretical) lifespan are aware of the weak link within, the Ballast........

The setup consists of mutiple LEDs with each bulb directed a seperate direction. This will create an illusion of 360 degree light. I've used them.

LEDs have matured, it's just the p-n junction cannot produce more wattage due to the size of the diode without producing heat within tolerable range. The p-n junction will not work if the temperature exceeds its limit.

It has nothing to do with the direction of the light emitted but rather the wavelength of light. LED's still have a relatively narrow wavelength and produce a light that is artificial, or more so than incandecent or flourecent and most people find it intolerable.

What I said also has nothing to do with the geometry or physical limitations of the p-n junction in specific devices.

Wavelength refers to the spectrum, or color of emitted visible light...... The best is still the original incandecent lamps, followed by I believe the halogen lamps, then flourecents........

LED's have found niche applications such as wide spread use in tail lights and brake lights of cars and trucks.

[Niels Bohr 72]

Led Light bulbs are available now, only online. They last for approximately 50+ years. Consumes less than CFL. However, they're more expensive.

The wavelength and quality of light from LED's aren't yet mature enought to compete with CFL's and especially incandecent lamps.....

NickD, the circuitry you refer to is called the "ballast" of the lamp and doesn't employ an inverter as almost all CFL's use DC, not AC to produce the ARC Discharge, and then regulate the current through the tube.

Here's a typical schematic of a typical solid state ballast (click on hi-res), but there's a multitude of different approaches to achieve the same result........

I can completely relate to your complaints about the reliability of CFL's as I've gone through a few myself. I'm not sure those that tout these devices for their (theoretical) lifespan are aware of the weak link within, the Ballast........

The setup consists of mutiple LEDs with each bulb directed a seperate direction. This will create an illusion of 360 degree light. I've used them.

LEDs have matured, it's just the p-n junction cannot produce more wattage due to the size of the diode without producing heat within tolerable range. The p-n junction will not work if the temperature exceeds its limit.

It has nothing to do with the direction of the light emitted but rather the wavelength of light. LED's still have a relatively narrow wavelength and produce a light that is artificial, or more so than incandecent or flourecent and most people find it intolerable.

What I said also has nothing to do with the geometry or physical limitations of the p-n junction in specific devices.

Wavelength refers to the spectrum, or color of emitted visible light...... The best is still the original incandecent lamps, followed by I believe the halogen lamps, then flourecents........

LED's have found niche applications such as wide spread use in tail lights and brake lights of cars and trucks.

The visible light is created by a little bit higher wattage. Therefore, the pn-junction limits the operating temperature of the diode. However, by using constructive interference and a mirror and different geometric arrangement LEDs can be used as a replacement for regular light bulbs.

The Fourier Transform for the wave of the light ray can be manipulated depending on how much input we have.

Edited January 20, 2009 by Niels Bohr

[kaydee457 13]

Led Light bulbs are available now, only online. They last for approximately 50+ years. Consumes less than CFL. However, they're more expensive.

The wavelength and quality of light from LED's aren't yet mature enought to compete with CFL's and especially incandecent lamps.....

NickD, the circuitry you refer to is called the "ballast" of the lamp and doesn't employ an inverter as almost all CFL's use DC, not AC to produce the ARC Discharge, and then regulate the current through the tube.

Here's a typical schematic of a typical solid state ballast (click on hi-res), but there's a multitude of different approaches to achieve the same result........

I can completely relate to your complaints about the reliability of CFL's as I've gone through a few myself. I'm not sure those that tout these devices for their (theoretical) lifespan are aware of the weak link within, the Ballast........

The setup consists of mutiple LEDs with each bulb directed a seperate direction. This will create an illusion of 360 degree light. I've used them.

LEDs have matured, it's just the p-n junction cannot produce more wattage due to the size of the diode without producing heat within tolerable range. The p-n junction will not work if the temperature exceeds its limit.

It has nothing to do with the direction of the light emitted but rather the wavelength of light. LED's still have a relatively narrow wavelength and produce a light that is artificial, or more so than incandecent or flourecent and most people find it intolerable.

What I said also has nothing to do with the geometry or physical limitations of the p-n junction in specific devices.

Wavelength refers to the spectrum, or color of emitted visible light...... The best is still the original incandecent lamps, followed by I believe the halogen lamps, then flourecents........

LED's have found niche applications such as wide spread use in tail lights and brake lights of cars and trucks.

The visible light is created by a little bit higher wattage. Therefore, the pn-junction limits the operating temperature of the diode. However, by using constructive interference and a mirror and different geometric arrangement LEDs can be used as a replacement for regular light bulbs.

The Fourier Transform for the wave of the light ray can be manipulated depending on how much input we have.

LOL! You make a better forum mole than an engineer!

[Niels Bohr 72]

I should've said the higher brigtness in regular light bulbs requires higher wattage. The wavelength of light can be easily adjusted by the varying frequency of it.

[Dan J 277]

I replaced all of the bulbs in my house 3 years ago with CFL's and haven't had a single problem. The only thing that annoys me is the bathroom lights (4 of them, the bulb type that mount over a mirror) for some reason take about 20 seconds to spin up. They start really dim and spool up to full brightness. None of my other bulbs do that.

Should mention, I purchased all Sylvania CFL's, maybe that's the wrong brand to buy. Do have many 40 watt fluorescent tubes in my lab, some all are over 25 years old, made in the USA with the old fashion heavy ballast transformer and the starters, those have been 100% reliable. Did purchase a Made in China with an electronic ballast recently, piece of #######.

Those Sylvanias' sure have a dim problem, worthless for trying to find something in a hurry, have to bring a flashlight.

I've had a couple bulbs burn out, but being a very old building, the quality of the electric system is iffy. Which has probably contributed to the burned out bulbs.

I've used two different brands and have had better luck with Ikea bulbs, although they seem to take a bit longer to warm up.

[kaydee457 13]

I should've said the higher brigtness in regular light bulbs requires higher wattage. The wavelength of light can be easily adjusted by the varying frequency of it.

You cannot vary the frequency of light from an LED device as it's fixed by the physics of the device. Here's a link to a place where I buy my LED's for my "50 year" Fiber-optic Christmas tree.... I have to replace at least 2 "50 year" LED's a season....LOL

When there at the site click on the LED's link and you see that all devices range from 400nm to around 900nm.

They also have a myriad of household fixture devices as you describe but as I said before, as with a lot of immature technologies and assoiciated applications, they're simply not there yet in terms of competing with other more common devices such as CFL's and incandecent lamps........

[mox 298]

I don't know the science behind them (although I'm more likely to trust a guy called "Niels Bohr" than a guy with an Osama/Obama morph avatar ) but the LED bulbs I've seen just don't quite seem up to par yet. I can't quite put my finger on it. The quantity of light certainly doesn't seem to be there, but it's also a harder light. More suitable for small bits of mood lighting, less so for reading or daily activities. I have no doubt they'll get there though, and soon.

Edited January 20, 2009 by mox

[Niels Bohr 72]

Yeah, you're right about that you can't adjust the frequency because it's fixed. Dimmers don't work well with them as I've seen. You can trick it by having filters on the light from the LED. Hmmm....

Well, my LED hasn't burn out yet. I reduced the amount of voltage going into the LED. The LED still reach it's linear region of operation with it. I play it safe not to apply a voltage to it's saturation region of operation. I know in the labs I've blown away a few LEDs because the DC power supply has a margin error within its circuit.

Although, I've seen the Motorola LED 7" mini-TV also at the lab. I'm tempting to ask the boss if I can play around with it.

Edited January 20, 2009 by Niels Bohr

[NickD 203]

Hmmmm, have to contact my associates and rewrite the book that an inverter transformer can transform pure DC to the filaments of a fluorescent tube. this transformer has a primary excited by a push pull transistor circuit consisting of two DD128F bipolar transistors with secondary feedback. Course if anything fouls up in that feedback circuit, circuit won't oscillate driving one of the transistors into saturation that will blow the protective fuse. Ballast is a term adopted from the old fluorescent, essentially an inductor or a choke that limits the ionization current that operates directly off of line voltage. Have seen the word ballast used for the newer inverter circuits, but feel it is being used incorrectly like so many other electronic terms.

LED's are man made devices, the chips are metalized with the leads ultrasonically welded, some not so good. Earlier ones emitted IR with a phosporous coating of different colors to emit visible wavelengths. Latest ones emit blue with a whitest phorporous coating to emulate white light.

Whether incandescence bulbs waste energy depends upon the application. When it's sub zero outside, and the energy cost of electricity is almost the same as natural gas, the heat energy is helping you to heat your home, so is not wasted. But during the cooling season, then it's lights out.

[SpiritAlight 1]

It's truly challenging to be truly "green".

Don't get me started. Hahaha!

CFLs are dangerous to dispose.

They contain mercury.

Mercury is scary...read about how it gets absorbed in your skin if you touch it, and how little it takes to make you sick.

1/70th of a teaspoon of mercury in a lake gets so polluted that the fish cannot be eaten for a year.

And so, throwing them in the trash might not be the way to go.

My partner had bought some and has had them working in his (now our) house for over a year, maybe two.

We still have some incandescent light bulbs in use too.

I think LEDs might be the best way to go, as they last "forever", stay cool to the touch and a little goes a long way (very bright).

I have had a Petzl (head lamp) for years and have yet to burn it out.

To those of you that in seriousness and in jest use the term hippie to label anyone trying to not destroy the Earth:

:lol: