K1 "meeting in person" requirements

[Brad and Vika 129]

I think the OP has had their questioned answered.

The whole process can be very confusing, especially to newbie's....so lets be patient guys and gals. I know sometimes I can read something 4 or 5 times and skip a word.

And I can be too literal sometimes

Advising people to read carefully and interpret literally is not a sign of "impatience". It's critical advice for success in the visa process.

especially when the same question gets asked daily.

Its not an insult to adv reading the guides, nor reading the guides carefully. The requirment of meeting within 2 years is stated about as simple as it can get

That was not what I was referring to. But you do get this sense of this attitude of "what's so bloooming hard!!!!!"

That is a rude response. And if everyone was able to do this with little help, and interpret literally and correctly every single time...then this forum would consist mostly of "I miss my fianceee / spouse...." , divorce and "how do I get my greencard after I leave" threads.

And you must bare in mind that not all people have the same abilities to interpret the information correctly. Regardless of how easy it seems to you and I.

I agree with your comments E&D, but I don't think any harm was meant by the others. Some of the long term members have a huge amount of expertise, but seem to be frustrated by every other newbie rattling off the same questions. Not long ago, I was the newbie, and got some pretty sharp responses to what I thought were completely benign questions. After some fire spitting and a few PMs, my opinion is that they mostly want to help - but the "did you even READ the directions on the package?" bursts forth sometimes. No harm, no foul, and a cool head helps. You will note that there was no name calling at all, and all responses were civil. Those are good indications that help was intended - not criticism IMHO.

[pushbrk 12,886]

I think the OP has had their questioned answered.

The whole process can be very confusing, especially to newbie's....so lets be patient guys and gals. I know sometimes I can read something 4 or 5 times and skip a word.

And I can be too literal sometimes

Advising people to read carefully and interpret literally is not a sign of "impatience". It's critical advice for success in the visa process.

especially when the same question gets asked daily.

Its not an insult to adv reading the guides, nor reading the guides carefully. The requirment of meeting within 2 years is stated about as simple as it can get

That was not what I was referring to. But you do get this sense of this attitude of "what's so bloooming hard!!!!!"

That is a rude response. And if everyone was able to do this with little help, and interpret literally and correctly every single time...then this forum would consist mostly of "I miss my fianceee / spouse...." , divorce and "how do I get my greencard after I leave" threads.

And you must bare in mind that not all people have the same abilities to interpret the information correctly. Regardless of how easy it seems to you and I.

I agree with your comments E&D, but I don't think any harm was meant by the others. Some of the long term members have a huge amount of expertise, but seem to be frustrated by every other newbie rattling off the same questions. Not long ago, I was the newbie, and got some pretty sharp responses to what I thought were completely benign questions. After some fire spitting and a few PMs, my opinion is that they mostly want to help - but the "did you even READ the directions on the package?" bursts forth sometimes. No harm, no foul, and a cool head helps. You will note that there was no name calling at all, and all responses were civil. Those are good indications that help was intended - not criticism IMHO.

For me, it's a, "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day but teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime." issue. In this context, answering questions isn't enough to "help" the person achieve success, because if they don't read carefully and interpret literally, they won't know what to ask. They won't know what they misunderstood. Perfectly intelligent people often have a hard time doing this because they simply are not "detail oriented" in their daily lives. Many days I wish I could be that way but in my work and life I just can't. It would be so much less stressful.

So, my advice to people is to make the concerted effort to calmly, objectively and carefully read guides and form instruction and interpret them literally. In nearly all cases, they are intended to be interpreted that way. Following this advice will help them succeed. Some of those same perfectly intelligent people simply don't have the aptitude or haven't yet developed those skills, so they need to get a helper involved.

Reactions to hearing this kind of advice run from jumping up and down thank-yous to outright hostility. The hostility generally doesn't come from the person receiving the advice. Instead it comes from seemingly well meaning folks who prefer the kid glove treatment of all questions and issues. There's a place for those people in this world too and I respect them. I would rather actually help people have success than cater to well meaning folks' needs. YMMV.

Edited January 20, 2009 by pushbrk

[Ellie-and-David 38]

I think the OP has had their questioned answered.

The whole process can be very confusing, especially to newbie's....so lets be patient guys and gals. I know sometimes I can read something 4 or 5 times and skip a word.

And I can be too literal sometimes

Advising people to read carefully and interpret literally is not a sign of "impatience". It's critical advice for success in the visa process.

especially when the same question gets asked daily.

Its not an insult to adv reading the guides, nor reading the guides carefully. The requirment of meeting within 2 years is stated about as simple as it can get

That was not what I was referring to. But you do get this sense of this attitude of "what's so bloooming hard!!!!!"

That is a rude response. And if everyone was able to do this with little help, and interpret literally and correctly every single time...then this forum would consist mostly of "I miss my fianceee / spouse...." , divorce and "how do I get my greencard after I leave" threads.

And you must bare in mind that not all people have the same abilities to interpret the information correctly. Regardless of how easy it seems to you and I.

I agree with your comments E&D, but I don't think any harm was meant by the others. Some of the long term members have a huge amount of expertise, but seem to be frustrated by every other newbie rattling off the same questions. Not long ago, I was the newbie, and got some pretty sharp responses to what I thought were completely benign questions. After some fire spitting and a few PMs, my opinion is that they mostly want to help - but the "did you even READ the directions on the package?" bursts forth sometimes. No harm, no foul, and a cool head helps. You will note that there was no name calling at all, and all responses were civil. Those are good indications that help was intended - not criticism IMHO.

For me, it's a, "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day but teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime." issue. In this context, answering questions isn't enough to "help" the person achieve success, because if they don't read carefully and interpret literally, they won't know what to ask. They won't know what they misunderstood. Perfectly intelligent people often have a hard time doing this because they simply are not "detail oriented" in their daily lives. Many days I wish I could be that way but in my work and life I just can't. It would be so much less stressful.

So, my advice to people is to make the concerted effort to calmly, objectively and carefully read guides and form instruction and interpret them literally. In nearly all cases, they are intended to be interpreted that way. Following this advice will help them succeed. Some of those same perfectly intelligent people simply don't have the aptitude or haven't yet developed those skills, so they need to get a helper involved.

Reactions to hearing this kind of advice run from jumping up and down thank-yous to outright hostility. The hostility generally doesn't come from the person receiving the advice. Instead it comes from seemingly well meaning folks who prefer the kid glove treatment of all questions and issues. There's a place for those people in this world too and I respect them. I would rather actually help people have success than cater to well meaning folks' needs. YMMV.

I am an advocate of both approaches although I tend to lean toward providing the facts. I object to the implication that it is just as simple as reading the guides. I took a while to find my way around this website and the search function is not always particularly helpful. I guess what I object to most is the implication that it is just as easy peasy as reading the guides, and pushbrk, you yourself have in a couple of posts recently, indicated that the guides may provide ambigious information, or are worded in way that leaves them open to the individual readers interpretation. Or maybe that is just my interpretation of what you were saying.

I also notice that well meaning, long term and very knowledgable members can make you feel like their eyes are rolling when you interpret something incorrectly. This approach to assisting those new to the process is not helpful. So while I am one for stating the facts, I find the sarcastic add ons wholly unnecesary. And I am not pointing fingers at any one member when I make that statement and will say that whilst the responses here were civil, there was an under lying tone - which can be intimidating to those new to the process.

Makes me glad that I was in a position to read through the guides and complete the process without having to ask to many(what could be considered) stupid questions.

This may be the 50th time you have answered a question. But to the Poster....this is most likely the first time they have asked.

Right...I'm off to watch the Inauguration. Nothing like this ever happens in Jolly Ole England, I'm looking forward to the production.

Edited January 20, 2009 by Ellie-and-David

[payxibka 10,045]

This may be the 50th time you have answered a question. But to the Poster....this is most likely the first time they have asked.

How many people actually follow the suggestion at the top of the page when posting a new topic?

To quote: "Please consider reading the FAQ's and Guides before posting. "

If you ignore then I guess you post at your own peril.....

[pushbrk 12,886]

I guess what I object to most is the implication that it is just as easy peasy as reading the guides, and pushbrk, you yourself have in a couple of posts recently, indicated that the guides may provide ambigious information, or are worded in way that leaves them open to the individual readers interpretation. Or maybe that is just my interpretation of what you were saying.

I think you've confused implication with inference. I too object to any suggestion that "it is just as easy peasy as reading the guides" and have seen no such assertion from anybody. An assertion that not only reading guides and instructions, but to read them carefully and interpret literally implies absolutely nothing about the process is "easy" (peasy or otherwise). I'm personally testimony that even after having done so, there may be many questions. I certainly expect others to have questions, even numerous questions after having read carefully and interpreted literally, all applicable guides and instructions. What I'm asserting is that without doing so, failure or significant delay are more likely results than the smooth success hoped for. Sharing that knowledge is something I do voluntarily, for the benefit of those who ultimately benefit. As such the concerns of well meaning and honorable folks that think otherwise is of little concern to me. They are free to contribute as they see fit. If they think criticizing the methods of others is "helpful" they are free to think and do so.

[Ellie-and-David 38]

I guess what I object to most is the implication that it is just as easy peasy as reading the guides, and pushbrk, you yourself have in a couple of posts recently, indicated that the guides may provide ambigious information, or are worded in way that leaves them open to the individual readers interpretation. Or maybe that is just my interpretation of what you were saying.

I think you've confused implication with inference. I too object to any suggestion that "it is just as easy peasy as reading the guides" and have seen no such assertion from anybody. An assertion that not only reading guides and instructions, but to read them carefully and interpret literally implies absolutely nothing about the process is "easy" (peasy or otherwise). I'm personally testimony that even after having done so, there may be many questions. I certainly expect others to have questions, even numerous questions after having read carefully and interpreted literally, all applicable guides and instructions. What I'm asserting is that without doing so, failure or significant delay are more likely results than the smooth success hoped for. Sharing that knowledge is something I do voluntarily, for the benefit of those who ultimately benefit. As such the concerns of well meaning and honorable folks that think otherwise is of little concern to me. They are free to contribute as they see fit. If they think criticizing the methods of others is "helpful" they are free to think and do so.

My apologies. Implication was used in the incorrect context here. I was taking a break from writing a report about the implications of something hideously boring to everyone but me and the soon to be recipients of the aforementioned report, and I guess there was a nice little brain switchover there.

I guess we'll be taking slightly different approaches then. And I do hope one day to be as knowledgeable about the process as you are.

Until then, i'll stick with my approach of fact based answering, nix the side order of sarcasm and go for the added topping of have a nice day.....and steal more than a few lines from your knowledge base, where appropriate.

[Brad and Vika 129]

My apologies. Implication was used in the incorrect context here. I was taking a break from writing a report about the implications of something hideously boring to everyone but me and the soon to be recipients of the aforementioned report, and I guess there was a nice little brain switchover there.

I guess we'll be taking slightly different approaches then. And I do hope one day to be as knowledgeable about the process as you are.

Until then, i'll stick with my approach of fact based answering, nix the side order of sarcasm and go for the added topping of have a nice day.....and steal more than a few lines from your knowledge base, where appropriate.

A great response - and I've had a laugh too! Your point in previous posts about the underlying tone being intimidating to newbies is one well taken.