The migrants who just don't belong

[Danno 1,228]

The England I visited 25 years ago is a world different than what is there now.

The uniqueness of it's culture and sights were a real delight for me as it was my first trip abroad.

That England is much different now due to heavy immigration and in fact all of "old Europe" is on track to vanish, sooner, rather than later. These articles are interesting but can't possible amount to more than intellectual strategy sessions as the bottom line is; one old culture is dying off (low birth rate) and a new one emerges (immigration and high birth rate). Nothing new except perhaps historically, these rapid changes most often follow a war, rather than a welcome-mat.

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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11...shop-York.html#

The migrants who just don't belong, by the Archbishop of York

Immigrants to Britain in the past five decades have been treated like hotel guests who 'do not belong', the Archbishop of York said yesterday.

Dr John Sentamu said the failure of migrants to integrate had contributed to the collapse of a common British culture and the lack of a national sense of direction.

He called for recognition of the Christian heritage which used to bind the nation together and for a revival of the civic values once represented by myriad local clubs, churches and trade unions.

The Archbishop's powerful attack on uncontrolled immigration and on the Left-wing interpretation of multiculturalism that encourages migrants to ignore traditional British values, was made in a speech to Gordon Brown's think tank, the Smith Institute.

Dr Sentamu, a trustee of the Institute, has previously criticised multiculturalism and official neglect of the importance of Christian thinking and history.

But yesterday's speech was the first admission from a senior Church of England figure that large-scale immigration has brought serious problems as well as benefits.

Ugandan-born Dr Sentamu, who came to Britain in the 1970s, said it was important to remember that Britain had always provided refuge for economic migrants.

He said 250,000 Jewish people had come before the First World War, and had integrated and been accepted.

'What happened after the Second World War was a different phenomenon,' Dr Sentamu continued.

'For the first time, significant numbers of immigrants from a non Judaeo-Christian background settled in the UK.'

He referred to the view of Chief Rabbi Sir Jonathan Sacks that until the 1950s immigrants were like guests in a country house, who were expected to assimilate British values and to belong to the existing society.

But with the decline of empire and the growth of Commonwealth immigration, the pattern had become more like a hotel.

'Guests are entitled to stay if they can pay their way and receive basic services in return for their payment,' he said. 'But they are guests - they do not belong. In the same way, migrants to Britain from the 1960s onwards have made their home with their cultural rights protected under legislation framed under a multicultural perspective.

'Consequently, any sense of a shared common culture is eroded, risking increasing segregation.'

The Archbishop, who is second in the hierarchy of the Church of England, was speaking at a time when Mr Brown and his ministers have been increasingly prepared to acknowledge problems linked to immigration.

Dr Sentamu praised Mr Brown's view of Britishness but warned that the Prime Minister's vision 'flounders if it does not allow for participation, involvement and commitment from individuals and communities'.

He also blamed leaders of the Church of England for failing to speak out over the future of the nation as well as ignoring 'the voiceless and the unheard in the market square'.

Dr Sentamu said that since 2001 there had been no fewer than five 'major government reports on social cohesion' all attempting to 'address the problems of a multicultural approach'.

But few aims had been achieved. This was, Dr Sentamu said, because the Government has been wedded to central control and had been reluctant to see local communities have power.

And, he said, 'there has also been a reluctance to acknowledge the strong Judaeo-Christian heritage which has shaped our language, our laws, our education and our hard-won civil rights.'

The Archbishop lamented the collapse of the vision of Britain developed in the 1940s that underpinned the creation of the welfare state.

'It is a tragedy to me that we have increasingly lost this big vision,' Dr Sentamu said.

'Memory loss has made Britain sleepwalk on streets supposedly paved with gold but sadly littered with promissory notes whose cash value is the credit crunch and the economic downturn as well as becoming a country that is not at ease with itself.'

Communities Secretary Hazel Blears has said since the New Year that many poorer white people feel betrayed and ignored by authorities and that they fear losing out in the share-out of public benefits. She has also admitted that Labour allowed a 'free-for-all' in immigration since it took power in 1997.

Edited January 16, 2009 by Danno

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

'For the first time, significant numbers of immigrants from a non Judaeo-Christian background settled in the UK.'

Non Judeo-Christians, ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

[Peikko 1,575]

Yes, the church of England struggles to get bums on seats - it must be very worrying. I am also very disturbed that the England Danno knew oh so many years ago is, well, gone. I must tell my mum, she'll be fascinated to learn this.

[Yoink 7]

'For the first time, significant numbers of immigrants from a non Judaeo-Christian background settled in the UK.'

Non Judeo-Christians, ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

[Peikko 1,575]

Fascinated? Oops, I meant highly disturbed, she might have to move you know!

[elmcitymaven 9,712]

Well, I'll tell you as a former immigrant to England I hardly felt welcomed, even though I tried to assimilate. As an American in Britain for 12 years -- not as an expat, but as a proper immigrant -- I was never, ever encouraged to begin to think of myself as British, nor did I think anyone would ever think of me as British if I naturalised. America does a MUCH better job of this.

I am from a Judeo-Christian background. I am middle-class. I am a professional. I integrated as best as I could, and spent almost my entire adult life there. I am much more British in my outlook than American. But would the society accept me as British? Yeah, right.

Edited January 16, 2009 by elmcitymaven

[Danno 1,228]

Of interest is, the man who made the observations in this story is himself a immigrant.

[Danno 1,228]

Yes, the church of England struggles to get bums on seats - it must be very worrying. I am also very disturbed that the England Danno knew oh so many years ago is, well, gone. I must tell my mum, she'll be fascinated to learn this.

Does she have a pulse Madame?

Then she is quite aware already..... unless she lives in the countryside without TV.

[peejay 327]

I am also very disturbed that the England Danno knew oh so many years ago is, well, gone.

But England is a better country for it, right?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Scaremongering, to be honest.

Church attendances have declined considerably over the last 2 generations - but that certainly doesn't have much to do with whether or not we have more immigrants than we used to.

The UK has its problems with immigration (legal and otherwise), just as continental Europe and indeed - the US do. At least from where I come from - most of the outrage about immigration (via the asylum system following the wars in the Balkans) has to do with the way the government distributed the asylees throughout the country. Typically seaside resort towns would bear the brunt of the influx - because the asylees would be housed in cheap hotels or bed and breakfast places. There was a fair bit of anger about that - as it did change the demographic makeup of those towns almost overnight.

But Britain has always had its ethnic areas - Birmingham, Luton and Leicester have sizeable asian (from the Indian Subcontinent) populations, and the Whitechapel area of London is populated almost exclusively by people from that background.

There's also always been an undercurrent of aggressive anti-immigrant nationalism in the UK, just as there is in the US. I don't draw too many conclusions about that - but the idea that things are somehow "worse" than they used to be is, I think, quite wrong.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Well, I'll tell you as a former immigrant to England I hardly felt welcomed, even though I tried to assimilate. As an American in Britain for 12 years -- not as an expat, but as a proper immigrant -- I was never, ever encouraged to begin to think of myself as British, nor did I think anyone would ever think of me as British if I naturalised. America does a MUCH better job of this.

I am from a Judeo-Christian background. I am middle-class. I am a professional. I integrated as best as I could, and spent almost my entire adult life there. I am much more British in my outlook than American. But would the society accept me as British? Yeah, right.

I was born British and I don't ever remember feeling much of a sense of belonging to some sort of overarching national identity. Obviously I'm familiar with the history of my country and it's cultural background - but to be honest with you it isn't something I feel particular "pride" for, nor do I think I could explain to anyone what it means to be British.

Its never really been important to me to flag wave, or chest-beat about Britishness - indeed, I'm rather suspicious of such things which, as I've seen demonstrated in this country, tend to be not only intolerant but rather puerile as well.

I would never accuse someone of being "UnBritish", the way you hear "UnAmerican" being thrown around over here. Its simply a way of using nationalism to marginalise people they don't agree with.

[bhajishah 4]

Nothing really to do in Britain but to make babies and be on welfare. So there you go everyone happy. Old timers sound like a bunch of outdated and thrown out haters.

[Peikko 1,575]

Well, I'll tell you as a former immigrant to England I hardly felt welcomed, even though I tried to assimilate. As an American in Britain for 12 years -- not as an expat, but as a proper immigrant -- I was never, ever encouraged to begin to think of myself as British, nor did I think anyone would ever think of me as British if I naturalised. America does a MUCH better job of this.

I am from a Judeo-Christian background. I am middle-class. I am a professional. I integrated as best as I could, and spent almost my entire adult life there. I am much more British in my outlook than American. But would the society accept me as British? Yeah, right.

I was born British and I don't ever remember feeling much of a sense of belonging to some sort of overarching national identity. Obviously I'm familiar with the history of my country and it's cultural background - but to be honest with you it isn't something I feel particular "pride" for, nor do I think I could explain to anyone what it means to be British.

Its never really been important to me to flag wave, or chest-beat about Britishness - indeed, I'm rather suspicious of such things which, as I've seen demonstrated in this country, tend to be not only intolerant but rather puerile as well.

I would never accuse someone of being "UnBritish", the way you hear "UnAmerican" being thrown around over here. Its simply a way of using nationalism to marginalise people they don't agree with.

Exactly so. Being British isn't something we wear on our sleeves and act all 'gung ho' over. Immigrants are welcomed in the UK however, welcomed and accepted as they are, not forced to conform to some stereotype of what it is to be British. I expect, as the UK has been around for over 2,000 years (with a variety of outside influences taking power and losing it again) I doubt it has much to fear from the currrent wave of immigrant populations.

The Church of England however, well that's another story...

As for my mum, she's got a very strong and healthy pulse, thank you very much, but she never recognizes the world according to the Daily Mail as it is somewhat of a figment of the owner's (and editors) imagination

Edited January 16, 2009 by Madame Cleo

[Peikko 1,575]

I am also very disturbed that the England Danno knew oh so many years ago is, well, gone.

But England is a better country for it, right?

I'll make it very clear for you, the England Danno knew so well never existed.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I guess it depends on what England danno is talking about - the England of alf garnet and steptoe & son, or the England of jeeves and wooster..