A Better Way to End Unauthorized Immigration

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Hold your horses there chief - I said that the labels aren't particularly important. They are pretty irrelevent actually, except as an indicator of individual attitudes. As far as that goes I prefer neutral phrases, rather than emotionally loaded ones that lead to accusations of irrationality, bias and at the worst case racism.

As far as that goes there isn't much reason for you to suppose that I support illegal immigration, I don't believe I have ever indicated anything to that fact.

I just prefer not to buy into the angry rhetoric, false accusations and factually incorrect statements.

Why be neutral that is your way of avoiding the reality of the issues brought on by illegal aliens. It HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE. it is about the laws of our nation, our future, security & prosparity of our nation.

Pull your head out your ####### no one said anything racist here.. as i said before round up all the Swedes & irish men too , all those Swedes that illegally cross into our border, steal ID, defraud the IRS and SS, drive illegally work illegally, refuse to pay taxes and take from social services that they contribute 0 into.

Oh wait my remarks are racist because why? majority of the Illegals who cross into our country and commikt the crimes cited are from where???

No one made any false accusations, the reality is out of your grasp, you can conitnue livng in your neutral little bubble, candy coat your neutral be everyones friend world.

I think you need to calm down and stop making more of something than there is. Not only are you putting words in my mouth, but you're extrapolating meaning from what I actually said that goes quite a bit beyond the sense of what I actually did say.

Again - the labels you choose to employ reflect your emotional state and set the tone of how people perceive your comments. All this does is show to all and sundry that you aren't capable of a civilised debate (on this issue at least).

[MariaBonita 11]

I don't report anything, I don't believe in moderation. However, you did make a personal attack on MariaBonita. You had absolutely no grounding to suggest that she was in any way involved in anything pertaining to the activities from the link you provided - you just did it to stir up feelings of resentment against someone you don't agree with.

Thanks Madame Cleo for pointing out what I didn't have time to point out - his personal attack; that's exactly how I took his post, as a personal attack. That's low, to say the least.

I was going to respond with the three letters only, but I figured that wouldn't be enough for him. Therefore, I ended up wasting my only few free seconds to give him an explanation, even though the insulting questions did not deserve one.

[peejay 327]

I don't report anything, I don't believe in moderation. However, you did make a personal attack on MariaBonita. You had absolutely no grounding to suggest that she was in any way involved in anything pertaining to the activities from the link you provided - you just did it to stir up feelings of resentment against someone you don't agree with.

Thanks Madame Cleo for pointing out what I didn't have time to point out - his personal attack; that's exactly how I took his post, as a personal attack. That's low, to say the least.

I was going to respond with the three letters only, but I figured that wouldn't be enough for him. Therefore, I ended up wasting my only few free seconds to give him an explanation, even though the insulting questions did not deserve one.

I posted several stories from the Houston Chronicle in Off Topic about the Maria Bonita Cantina raids in Houston months before you ever became a member of VJ. I was just curious about why you chose the name or why a cantina would choose this same name as your VJ moniker. No offense intended. You answered the question, so you must not have been insulted until Madame Cleo decided to tell you that you should be. I was not attacking you.

Edited January 16, 2009 by peejay

[MariaBonita 11]

I don't report anything, I don't believe in moderation. However, you did make a personal attack on MariaBonita. You had absolutely no grounding to suggest that she was in any way involved in anything pertaining to the activities from the link you provided - you just did it to stir up feelings of resentment against someone you don't agree with.

Thanks Madame Cleo for pointing out what I didn't have time to point out - his personal attack; that's exactly how I took his post, as a personal attack. That's low, to say the least.

I was going to respond with the three letters only, but I figured that wouldn't be enough for him. Therefore, I ended up wasting my only few free seconds to give him an explanation, even though the insulting questions did not deserve one.

I posted several stories from the Houston Chronicle in Off Topic about the Maria Bonita Cantina raids in Houston months before you ever became a member of VJ. I was just curious about why you chose the name or why a cantina would choose this same name as your VJ moniker. No offense intended. You answered the question, so you must not have been insulted until Madame Cleo decided to tell you that you should be. I was not attacking you.

Bull!

I think I already said in my post why I answered the questions. I don't really care if you believe me or not, but I was insulted by your questions!

I have said enough about this back and forth nonsense. I don't play this kind of games.

[DeadPoolX 9]

I don't see this problem as primarily the fault of illegals. It's us -- the American citizen. We have allowed this to go on and in effect, allowed our government to accept the prospects of illegals wholeheartedly. It's human nature to attempt getting away with something and if that happens, repeat the action.

Illegal is the key term here. I don't think anyone here is claiming that immigrants are bad. Our spouses are immigrants. The main difference is that they came in legally, despite how quick and easy illegal entry might have been. That's the point and one that I imagine most here would understand better than anyone. We went through the hellish process of legal immigration. Why should any group of people -- Mexican or not -- have it any easier? The plain answer is they shouldn't.

Considering how difficult it is to legally immigrate to the U.S. and how easily illegals come in, I can't imagine the process of legal immigration will last much longer. Maybe another couple of decades, at best. Why spend all that time, effort and money when you can walk right in?

That's a real problem, too. Forget about the "sovereign nation" stuff for a moment. Illegals get a number of benefits that American citizens do not and even if they didn't, they're still here at the expense of the American tax payer. The real breakdown in society is the allowance some give to illegal entry. While this country was built on the backs of immigrants, they came in legally. We must continue that practice.

[MariaBonita 11]

I don't report anything, I don't believe in moderation. However, you did make a personal attack on MariaBonita. You had absolutely no grounding to suggest that she was in any way involved in anything pertaining to the activities from the link you provided - you just did it to stir up feelings of resentment against someone you don't agree with.

Thanks Madame Cleo for pointing out what I didn't have time to point out - his personal attack; that's exactly how I took his post, as a personal attack. That's low, to say the least.

I was going to respond with the three letters only, but I figured that wouldn't be enough for him. Therefore, I ended up wasting my only few free seconds to give him an explanation, even though the insulting questions did not deserve one.

I posted several stories from the Houston Chronicle in Off Topic about the Maria Bonita Cantina raids in Houston months before you ever became a member of VJ. I was just curious about why you chose the name or why a cantina would choose this same name as your VJ moniker. No offense intended. You answered the question, so you must not have been insulted until Madame Cleo decided to tell you that you should be. I was not attacking you.

Bull!

I think I already said in my post why I answered the questions. I don't really care if you believe me or not, but I was insulted by your questions!

I have said enough about this back and forth nonsense. I don't play this kind of games.

BTW - what I meant by "I don't play this kind of games" is that I don't play the "she said I said" back and forth game.

I don't mind having a back and forth debate so long is not accompanied by nasty personal attacks.

Or a back and forth fun/funny conversation. I enjoy that kind of back and forth.

I thought I'd clarify that so there isn't any misunderstandings.

Edited January 16, 2009 by MariaBonita

[Peikko 1,575]

I don't see this problem as primarily the fault of illegals. It's us -- the American citizen. We have allowed this to go on and in effect, allowed our government to accept the prospects of illegals wholeheartedly. It's human nature to attempt getting away with something and if that happens, repeat the action.

Illegal is the key term here. I don't think anyone here is claiming that immigrants are bad. Our spouses are immigrants. The main difference is that they came in legally, despite how quick and easy illegal entry might have been. That's the point and one that I imagine most here would understand better than anyone. We went through the hellish process of legal immigration. Why should any group of people -- Mexican or not -- have it any easier? The plain answer is they shouldn't.

Considering how difficult it is to legally immigrate to the U.S. and how easily illegals come in, I can't imagine the process of legal immigration will last much longer. Maybe another couple of decades, at best. Why spend all that time, effort and money when you can walk right in?

That's a real problem, too. Forget about the "sovereign nation" stuff for a moment. Illegals get a number of benefits that American citizens do not and even if they didn't, they're still here at the expense of the American tax payer. The real breakdown in society is the allowance some give to illegal entry. While this country was built on the backs of immigrants, they came in legally. We must continue that practice.

Difficult? It's not difficult, just time consuming. I never, ever understand this argument though. Anyone who has the opportunity to legally immigrate is going to do so - saving time is not a good argument set against all the benefits of legal immigration, hence why we all go through the process, annoying as it is. A few people might go the "come on another visa and adjusting KNOWING that that is wrong" route but that is hardly the same thing at all as being an illegal immigrant who has really no hope of becoming legal - which is basically the people that make everyone angry.

Edited January 16, 2009 by Madame Cleo