Blowing up an assumption

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I'm still thinking about this article. He bases his claim that the terror tactics are as old as time but this "war on terror" is basically new by the times these findings were published. I'm also thinking about what he said with democracies being the most vulnerable to terror.

Olivia, he said...

Three general patterns in the data support these conclusions. First, nearly all suicide terrorist attacks - 301 of the 315 in the period I studied - took place as part of organized political or military campaigns. Second, democracies are uniquely vulnerable to suicide terrorists; America, France, India, Israel, Russia, Sri Lanka and Turkey have been the targets of almost every suicide attack of the past two decades. Third, suicide terrorist campaigns are directed toward a strategic objective: from Lebanon to Israel to Sri Lanka to Kashmir to Chechnya, the sponsors of every campaign - 18 organizations in all - are seeking to establish or maintain political self-determination.

I don't think the professor is implying that there is something inherently wrong with democracies, but is saying that the data suggests that democracies are more vulnerable to terrorism. When Saddam was in power, how many suicide bombers were there? It doesn't take a huge leap of faith to see that Saddam's ruling with an iron fist played a part in keeping both the Sunnis and the Shias in relative peace, albeit at a price. To me, it suggests that having a free and open society comes with a price and we should keep that in mind when creating policy designed to protect those freedoms. It also suggests that terrorism cannot be defeated militarily.

[Dr. A ♥ O 203]

I'm still thinking about this article. He bases his claim that the terror tactics are as old as time but this "war on terror" is basically new by the times these findings were published. I'm also thinking about what he said with democracies being the most vulnerable to terror.

Olivia, he said...

Three general patterns in the data support these conclusions.

First, nearly all suicide terrorist attacks - 301 of the 315 in the period I studied - took place as part of organized political or military campaigns.

Second, democracies are uniquely vulnerable to suicide terrorists; America, France, India, Israel, Russia, Sri Lanka and Turkey have been the targets of almost every suicide attack of the past two decades.

Third, suicide terrorist campaigns are directed toward a strategic objective: from Lebanon to Israel to Sri Lanka to Kashmir to Chechnya, the sponsors of every campaign - 18 organizations in all - are seeking to establish or maintain political self-determination.

I don't think the professor is implying that there is something inherently wrong with democracies, but is saying that the data suggests that democracies are more vulnerable to terrorism. When Saddam was in power, how many suicide bombers were there? It doesn't take a huge leap of faith to see that Saddam's ruling with an iron fist played a part in keeping both the Sunnis and the Shias in relative peace, albeit at a price. To me, it suggests that having a free and open society comes with a price and we should keep that in mind when creating policy designed to protect those freedoms. It also suggests that terrorism cannot be defeated militarily.

I agree he is saying that democracies are more vulnerable to terrorism. I'm saying some of his claims are founded while others need to be expanded on. I didn't get what you got about the free and open society having a price as much as I got the conclusion of the article being to persuade that terrorism cannot be defeated militarily.

[NickD 203]

Ha, still trying to explain a situation intellectually, rationalizing, and using logic when dealing with a bunch of nut cases. High doses of lithium will work wonders with this kind, should put that in their drinking water.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Just so people know who Robert Pape is...

A new body of research by University of Chicago researcher Robert A. Pape, based on the world's largest database on suicide terrorist incidents compiled by Pape and teams of U. Chicago grad students and funded in part by the US Department of Defense...

....

Robert A. Pape says he briefed close to 10% of the US Senate and House as well as analysts at the DoD and the Pentagon on his research findings... back in 2005. Pape is the world expert on what motivates acts of suicide terrorism.

.....

After the September 11, 2001 attacks, in a groundbreaking effort to understand the forces driving suicide terrorism which was partly funded by the US Department of Defense, Robert A. Pape of the University of Chicago dropped his prior research, into the effective uses of air power in warfare, and began to amass what became the world's largest database on suicide terrorism. Pape wrote up his conclusions, on what drives such acts, in a 2005 book, "Dying To Win: The Strategic Logic of Suicide Terrorism". Pape says he has briefed "40 out of 535" of the senators and representatives on Capitol Hill, as well as members of the Department of Defense and The NSA on his conclusion: religion is not the primary cause of suicide terrorism, nationalism is.

In an astounding February 2006 interview, Robert Pape even explains why Al Qaeda has not attacked the domestic United States; according to an Al Qaeda strategy document captured by Norwegian intelligence, says Pape, Al Qaeda leaders decided to attack allies of the US with troops in Iraq in order to peel away international military support for the US presence in that country. So, Al Qaeda initiated terrorist attacks in Britain and Spain and that strategy conforms exactly with Pape's analysis on the key reason for suicide terrorism.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/3/16/91327/0831

Edited January 11, 2009 by Mister Fancypants

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Pape says he has briefed "40 out of 535" of the senators and representatives on Capitol Hill, as well as members of the Department of Defense and The NSA on his conclusion: religion is not the primary cause of suicide terrorism, nationalism is.

Rich - are you listening?

[Dr. A ♥ O 203]

I remember WoM writing a big post once that there was no nationalism in Islam. I wrote it all down at the time to analyze it. "I was new to VJ at the time." Anyways I'm more than positive we analyzed Robert Pape's findings more than once in my World Politics and War, and Political Violence classes both for comparative politics.

[NickD 203]

I remember WoM writing a big post once that there was no nationalism in Islam. I wrote it all down at the time to analyze it. "I was new to VJ at the time." Anyways I'm more than positive we analyzed Robert Pape's findings more than once in my World Politics and War, and Political Violence classes both for comparative politics.

Still say dem suicide guys, and I gather gals now, are nuts. Should chain a pork chop around their necks.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Where's the 'it's the Muslims that are blowin themselves up' crowd?