This Looks Like the Start of a Second Great Depression

[mawilson 2,133]

Can you name a couple of examples of "governmental efficiency"?

You don't need "accountability" to run a business well. Most companies are private and don't

have any "shareholders" to answer to, yet they are doing fine.

Here's just one example:

NYC's Growth Backed by 11 Years of Transit Improvements

New York City's growth has been borne on the back of a steadily improving transit system. That's the implication of a recently released NYCDOT report, Sustainable Streets Index 2008, that found that although NYC continued to grow between 2003 and 2007, traffic actually declined. Subway and bus ridership increased almost 9% in the same period. (The report is the result of the passage of Intro 199 — now Local Law 23 — which requires NYCDOT to measure progress towards sustainability goals; see MTR # 550.)

http://blog.tstc.org/2008/12/16/nycs-growt...t-improvements/

What does it prove? The transit system had to absorb the influx of new residents and commuters,

so it grew. So what?

Private companies are accountable to themselves. They're not using other people's money.

The best way, really.

[doodlebugg 10]

We're too old to be drafted. Might make for good viewing on CNN. All I'm sayin' is think about it!

Who'll be able to afford cable tv at that point?

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Can you name a couple of examples of "governmental efficiency"?

You don't need "accountability" to run a business well. Most companies are private and don't

have any "shareholders" to answer to, yet they are doing fine.

Here's just one example:

NYC's Growth Backed by 11 Years of Transit Improvements

New York City's growth has been borne on the back of a steadily improving transit system. That's the implication of a recently released NYCDOT report, Sustainable Streets Index 2008, that found that although NYC continued to grow between 2003 and 2007, traffic actually declined. Subway and bus ridership increased almost 9% in the same period. (The report is the result of the passage of Intro 199 — now Local Law 23 — which requires NYCDOT to measure progress towards sustainability goals; see MTR # 550.)

http://blog.tstc.org/2008/12/16/nycs-growt...t-improvements/

What does it prove? The transit system had to absorb the influx of new residents and commuters,

so it grew. So what?

LOL...okay, Mark - if you're really convinced that government is incapable of a level of efficiency that can be found in the private sector, I won't bend your arm. You're being incredibly stubborn in spite of the evidence.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

What does it prove? The transit system had to absorb the influx of new residents and commuters,

so it grew. So what?

It didn't have to grow. It could have stayed stagnant, making the region less attractive to new residents/commuters and stifling growth.

In fact, if you read the report Steven has linked to ("Sustainable Streets"), that's exactly what it claims.

[mawilson 2,133]

What does it prove? The transit system had to absorb the influx of new residents and commuters,

so it grew. So what?

It didn't have to grow. It could have stayed stagnant, making the region less attractive to new residents/commuters and stifling growth.

In fact, if you read the report Steven has linked to ("Sustainable Streets"), that's exactly what it claims.

The MTA is not the best example of government efficiency. For starters, it has a $6 billion deficit.

Its structure hasn't changed since 1968.

[mawilson 2,133]

LOL...okay, Mark - if you're really convinced that government is incapable of a level of efficiency that can be found in the private sector, I won't bend your arm. You're being incredibly stubborn in spite of the evidence.

Are you f*cking kidding me? Government as efficient as the private sector?

Where is the "evidence"?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

The private sector is efficient in securing their own profits, that certainly can be said (barring negligence or fraud). Being efficient in terms of your own priorities doesn't really mean much when those priorities are at odds with the public interest.

Since we're talking about mass transit - overprivatisation of the UK rail network led to the Hatfield (?) crash and the subsequent shutdown of the network while 5 years worth of repairs were conducted in the space of a month.

[Amby 490]

Capitalism is only bad for those people that aren't in the small segment of the population that controls the goods/wealth. You get better rewards for working your ### off...I call capitalism incentive to strive for greatness and maybe sell your soul. Socialism is incentive to stay mediocre.

Edited January 7, 2009 by Amby

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Capitalism is only bad for those people that aren't in the small segment of the population that controls the goods/wealth.

So capitalism is good for only a small segment of the population and bad for most of us?

[mawilson 2,133]

Capitalism is only bad for those people that aren't in the small segment of the population that controls the goods/wealth. You get better rewards for working your ### off...I call capitalism incentive to strive for greatness and maybe sell your soul. Socialism is incentive to stay mediocre.

Exactly. Keep your head down, don’t make trouble and you're set for life.

Do just enough not to get fired. Not that it's easy to get fired from a government job - it's almost impossible.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Not that it's easy to get fired from a government job - it's almost impossible.

Getting laid off a govt job is much easier.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

LOL...okay, Mark - if you're really convinced that government is incapable of a level of efficiency that can be found in the private sector, I won't bend your arm. You're being incredibly stubborn in spite of the evidence.

Are you f*cking kidding me? Government as efficient as the private sector?

Where is the "evidence"?

Mark, we'd spend all day gathering evidence in hopes of persuading each other. Look at it from the perspective of what is uniquely different between government and the private sector. Again what I think you are basing your argument on is that with government, there is often little or no accountability...and I would agree with that. But that doesn't mean that you can't have accountability with government or that the private sector isn't also vulnerable to it as well.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Capitalism is only bad for those people that aren't in the small segment of the population that controls the goods/wealth. You get better rewards for working your ### off...I call capitalism incentive to strive for greatness and maybe sell your soul. Socialism is incentive to stay mediocre.

I don't think that's accurate - unless you're comparing the US to somewhere like Cuba.

European countries that have social democracies have capitalist economies, the difference is in the degree of communal services they are. In general I think living standards are better in countries that have publicly run healthcare - certainly this is borne out in terms of life expectancy, infant mortality etc.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

In general I think living standards are better in countries that have publicly run healthcare - certainly this is borne out in terms of life expectancy, infant mortality etc.

Just because they're older don't mean they ain't mediocre!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

In general I think living standards are better in countries that have publicly run healthcare - certainly this is borne out in terms of life expectancy, infant mortality etc.

Just because they're older don't mean they ain't mediocre!

From my experience the cost of living here is little different to how it was in the UK, once you factor in healthcare deductions etc.