Is this gonna hurt us?

[Chica Yeyé 41]

I wish you the best of luck.

[JSVP08 3]

OP here. Thanks for all the responses!

Guess it's time to grow up Oh well, she's worth it

Kudos! keep it up- ul get through this tough time....u seem to have sorted it good plus that "grow up" thing plays a big part ...Bless u always.

[Sinergy 3]

correct me if I am wrong she had abortion??? :unsure:

correct me if I am wrong she had abortion??? :unsure:

Yes, she had an abortion. It is not relevant to immigration proceedings.

dont ya love how ppl only speak on the negative details?

[Ano 0]

Abortion is a crime in the RP, and it is a common question at the Medical at St. Luke’s. Why would they ask this question if it was irrelevant to the examining medical officials. If you have used drugs and never been arrested they can deny you.

I reason that if you admit to the fact that you have had an abortion, they may give you more than a hard time for committing what the Philippines considers an immoral act, or they may cite the mental disorder and behavior clause.

“A history of a physical or mental disorder and behavior associated with the disorder, which behavior has posed a threat to the property, safety, or welfare of the alien or others and which behavior is likely to recur or lead to other harmful behavior”

To dismiss his concerns and say it is irrelevant when another couple’s future is involved is a little cavalier.

I would like to hear from a Filipina who admitted to an abortion at her examination.

Every country is a little different in culture and what is accepted. You are comparing apples to mangoes.

I wish them all the luck in the world, but in he RP, couples have bee denied for what us Americans would consider "no big deal".

[B&Gie 0]

@Ano: Good point about the abortion and the medical exam. I had read about that from other people's experiences and from what i understand you are OK if you say you had a miscarriage. They can tell you were pregnant but not what ended it. So yea the truth there is out of the question. I was mostly asking with regard to the interview. By then the medical would be done and the interview is with US officials who <shouldn't> blame her for having an abortion to escape an abusive relationship. Still on second thought it might be better stick with the miscarriage story throughout, that is if we can't avoid bringing up that detail altogether.

[Zakariya 0]

I'm just starting this K-1 process and at first I though our case would be easy and clean, but now I'm starting to think that our little fiasco in the middle of the relationship is going to cause trouble. What do you guys think?

We're both in our mid 20s. I quit my professional job after a few years working and went traveling for over a year. I ended up spending half a year in the Philippines where I met a lovely young lady and spent 3 wonderful months with her exploring her country, one of the most beautiful place I ever been. I had never imagined myself married any time soon, let alone to Filipina, so I got a kinda freaked out how serious things were getting and how quickly. Anyway, I continued on my trip, to get away from her, get my head sorted out, and, I hate to admit it, try to forget her. That didn't work so well and after a while I pretty much convinced myself I was being stupid and I ought to go back to her even if it was strange and everyone back home thought I was crazy.(they don't) About the same time the laundry job she was training for in Japan fell through and she got a different job as a caretaker/nanny with a disabled guy and his son in Europe. She left almost immediately. I needed to go home and find work in a the not too distant future so didn't object. I figured we'd pick things up again once I got home.

After that I hardly heard from her for a few months since she didn't have regular internet access. Then I got an email saying she was pregnant! This from the girl who was angry at her sister and the other stupid girls in town for getting pregnant young, and who had told me she didn't want kids for several years at least. Turns out the guy was less disable and it was less of a job than I had thought. Like 2 months later they left his summer house and got internet again, so I got to chat with her. She tried really hard to put on a happy face but after some pointed questions she broke down and it all came pouring out.

Turns out as the family member with the best job at the time she had borrowed money from a pawn shop at 7% a month to pay for her brother's appendectomy before we met. She was too shy to ask me for the money or even tell me about it because it wasn't my problem and she didn't think I was serious about her. Instead when her job fell through, and depressed over my leaving, with most of the family unemployed, she basically sold herself to this sick old #######. He was older than her father, with several failed marriages and, according to my social worker mother he has a borderline type personality disorder. Extremely controlling, manipulative, and psychologically abusive. If you've never dealt with a borderline it's hard to even comprehend. And she is the sweetest most giving girl who can't stand to see anyone unhappy...the perfect victim for this kind of guy. He kept her penniless and isolated, locked her in the house at least once, refused her birth control, refused her an abortion, and celebrated when she got pregnant because "now you can never leave me." I'd call it human trafficking, though I doubt he'd ever be convicted. When I finally got to talk to her she had gone from being one of the most bubbly, cheerful people I have ever known to profoundly depressed and even suicidal. She knew going in she was making a huge sacrifice for her family, but she hadn't realized just how horrible it would be. And of course she puts all of the blame on herself.

Anyway, I got on a plane, went over there, got her away from him, got her an abortion, and got her on a flight back to the Philippines. Of course it wasn't quite that easy but it worked out. A few weeks later she is doing SO much better, and we're starting the paperwork for her K-1 visa.

So I'm wondering if/how much of this should be exposed to the immigrations people, and how much they would freak over it. Not lying, just not volunteering what they don't need to know. We've got lovely pics of us in the Philippines about a year ago, and we can probably pick a bunch of chat logs and emails that don't mention the gory details. The two problems are that I don't have any tickets or boarding passes to/from the Philippines, whereas I do have have them for the Europe trip. I can probably print blog posts and flickr pics with datestamps showing that I was uploading pics of us together in the Philippines at the time I said I was there. Not sure if that's good enough to prove physical meeting within the last 2 years.

Also they told his embassy that they had been together for a year, when it was actually a lot less. I don't think the US embassy can check that. However her passport shows permanent residence in Europe. Some sort of domestic partner visa or something like that. That might raise red flags. I suppose she might be able to get a new passport. She DID go there intending to stay with him in good faith. If he was just a bit less of a crazy sadistic #######, or if I wasn't around to help her escape, she would still be with him trying to make the best of it. But I'm afraid customs will blame the victim.

BTW I'm assuming the abortion itself wouldn't be a problem because it's the US embassy we're dealing with. They shouldn't have a fit over that like some Philippine officials might, right?

So what do you guys think? Should we not mention the gory details or give it all to them straight up? Anything there that you think would get us denied? And <gulp> is our case so bad we need an immigration attorney? Thanks for reading all this, and thanks in advance for your thoughts.

I concur with most of the responses in this thread, leave well enough alone. There is no reason to give any more information than asked of you. Your story is interesting, however I would question more than the USCIS or NVC if I were in your shoes.

@ any rate... do what makes you feel comfortable.

Personal information is yours. Own it.

[Rocky_nBullwinkle 6]

@Ano: Good point about the abortion and the medical exam. I had read about that from other people's experiences and from what i understand you are OK if you say you had a miscarriage. They can tell you were pregnant but not what ended it. So yea the truth there is out of the question. I was mostly asking with regard to the interview. By then the medical would be done and the interview is with US officials who <shouldn't> blame her for having an abortion to escape an abusive relationship. Still on second thought it might be better stick with the miscarriage story throughout, that is if we can't avoid bringing up that detail altogether.

It is a tough call. A pelvic exam may just indicate a pregnancy, or it may indicate more. It just might generate a fraud investigation, since one of the things they look at is the reported death of a child, and they may ask for a death certificate. If she cannot provide one, then that could be reason enough to deny her a fiancee visa. Sometimes you just have to trust the system.

Your call. I don't envy your decision. Good luck.

[Rocky_nBullwinkle 6]

Also they told his embassy that they had been together for a year, when it was actually a lot less. I don't think the US embassy can check that. However her passport shows permanent residence in Europe. Some sort of domestic partner visa or something like that. That might raise red flags. I suppose she might be able to get a new passport. She DID go there intending to stay with him in good faith. If he was just a bit less of a crazy sadistic #######, or if I wasn't around to help her escape, she would still be with him trying to make the best of it. But I'm afraid customs will blame the victim.

You have to wonder whether or not her departure and arrival records are within the reach of the USEM, and again, you have to decide whether or not to provide police clearances from her time in Europe. What information does the NBI have, and do they disclose anything about her travels? Has she ever had a security clearance?

Next, would be obtaining a CENOMAR, and whether that process will show anything.

We leave a lot of paper trails in our wake, and somebody needs to make sure nothing haunts her, or you, at the end. It only takes a single discrepancy to bring it all to a halt.

Good luck, on whatever you decide.

[B&Gie 0]

You mean they issue a death certificate for every (fairly common) end of first trimester miscarriage in the Philippines????? That strikes me as absurd and very hard to enforce. At any rate, that all happened in europe where it was all legit and they don't give such certificates.

I'm thinking no for the european police clearance. She was only there for like half a year, and that was split between two countries. I don't imagine you'd need police clearances from somewhere you stayed only like 3 or 4 months, especially as the country she spent the most time in was on a tourist visa.

Cenomar...never married. Some sort of european girlfriend/domestic partner visa for one country, and tourist visa for the other. They were never even engaged.

Of course it's all in the wording and exactly what they ask. I've submitted the I-129F without mentioning any of this. Actually nothing in that part of the process even asked about it. Of course we won't lie, but if they want to know it all they'll have to ask a lot of very specific questions. They might in the interview, but we'll see.

[miss g 1]

wow its interesting to see where people come from and how different their opinions are... i personally think that because shes moving to the USA where people do have abortions it prob wouldnt be made a big issue of, if i am not mistaken the medicals are to see what kind of health you are in so I think you need to be very careful what you say, saying miscarriage when it was an abortion is a lie so i would say be honest if you are asked but dont tell if you're not asked. also if she had an abortion in Europe, technically she didnt commit a crime in PHIL being that its illegal.

this kinda stuff makes me mad, that people think they have the right to tell another person to have a child they may not be able to care for or want or force them to live their lives in a certain way!

[Rocky_nBullwinkle 6]

You mean they issue a death certificate for every (fairly common) end of first trimester miscarriage in the Philippines????? That strikes me as absurd and very hard to enforce. At any rate, that all happened in europe where it was all legit and they don't give such certificates.

I'm thinking no for the european police clearance. She was only there for like half a year, and that was split between two countries. I don't imagine you'd need police clearances from somewhere you stayed only like 3 or 4 months, especially as the country she spent the most time in was on a tourist visa.

Cenomar...never married. Some sort of european girlfriend/domestic partner visa for one country, and tourist visa for the other. They were never even engaged.

Of course it's all in the wording and exactly what they ask. I've submitted the I-129F without mentioning any of this. Actually nothing in that part of the process even asked about it. Of course we won't lie, but if they want to know it all they'll have to ask a lot of very specific questions. They might in the interview, but we'll see.

Interesting. Remember, I-129F is all about the petitioner, except for the G-325A that your fiancee filled out, that shows her bio. If you continue the process, you are committed to the information you already supplied about her.

When the petition is approved, the process is all about the beneficiary, and there is where she will receive the scrutiny.

[Rocky_nBullwinkle 6]

Read this:

http://www.alaminoscity.gov.ph/forms/D%20(...al%20death).pdf

[pushbrk 13,173]

Read this:

http://www.alaminoscity.gov.ph/forms/D%20(...al%20death).pdf

In this case, the abortion was performed legally in a country where abortion is legal and the beneficiary is intending to immigrate to the USA where laws do not prohibit abortion and where having had one is not a factor evaluated in the immigration process. As such, it has no bearing on the case as any kind of crime. Philippine abortion laws don't apply in this case. The couple may have some challenges but only if certain relationship issues come to light in an interview. Personal feelings, religious or otherwise, are not relevant to the immigration discussion in this case.

[Rocky_nBullwinkle 6]

Read this:

http://www.alaminoscity.gov.ph/forms/D%20(...al%20death).pdf

In this case, the abortion was performed legally in a country where abortion is legal and the beneficiary is intending to immigrate to the USA where laws do not prohibit abortion and where having had one is not a factor evaluated in the immigration process. As such, it has no bearing on the case as any kind of crime. Philippine abortion laws don't apply in this case. The couple may have some challenges but only if certain relationship issues come to light in an interview. Personal feelings, religious or otherwise, are not relevant to the immigration discussion in this case.

You are entirely correct, but that is not the issue that the OP presents. The OP has not decided whether or not to disclose his fiancee's travels, and the circumstances of her pregnancy. If the fiancee discloses she travelled outside the Philippines, then your arguement is valid.

If she does not disclose her travels, then she will state she had a miscarriage, if asked about her pregnancy. By the way, cruel as it seems, a miscarriage in the Philippines is classified as an "intentional abortion" in her medical records.

Edited January 13, 2009 by Rocky_nBullwinkle

[pushbrk 13,173]

Read this:

http://www.alaminoscity.gov.ph/forms/D%20(...al%20death).pdf

In this case, the abortion was performed legally in a country where abortion is legal and the beneficiary is intending to immigrate to the USA where laws do not prohibit abortion and where having had one is not a factor evaluated in the immigration process. As such, it has no bearing on the case as any kind of crime. Philippine abortion laws don't apply in this case. The couple may have some challenges but only if certain relationship issues come to light in an interview. Personal feelings, religious or otherwise, are not relevant to the immigration discussion in this case.

You are entirely correct, but that is not the issue that the OP presents. The OP has not decided whether or not to disclose his fiancee's travels, and the circumstances of her pregnancy. If the fiancee discloses she travelled outside the Philippines, then your arguement is valid.

If she does not disclose her travels, then she will state she had a miscarriage, if asked about her pregnancy. By the way, cruel as it seems, a miscarriage in the Philippines is classified as an "intentional abortion" in her medical records.

The OP has no decision or choice to make with regard to disclosing his fiance's travels abroad. They'll be clearly shown in her passport. The OP and beneficiary's choices relate to how much detail to volunteer about the nature of her travel decisions or pregnancy. There are no legal concerns with respect to either the pregnancy or abortion in this case because no laws were violated.