Why does the Left hate Israel?

[nowhereman 1]

They pretty much hate everybody that doesnt agree withem.

Sounds like the Bush administration

[nowhereman 1]

For balance and fairness we need a thread about "Why are the Right sadistic war mongers?"

Yea I guess to make fertilizer you need turds from different sources!

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Just look at Steven's posts and you will see

• hatred of the western consumer society in which he lives
• hatred of corporations and capitalism
• hatred of globalization
• America - the great Satan for the Greens
• America - the killer of Kyoto
• America - the maker of genetically modified foods
• America - the exporter of McDonald's, Disney, Hollywood trash and Starbucks
• Cowardice and pandering to Muslims

#######?! I'm Muslim, but I've never been pandered to by Steven!!

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I'd rather focus the attack on the collective Left, if you don't mind.

No problem - I'll even make it easier for you.

"The collective Far Left" = Steven + HAL + Dan&Gemvito + Paul Daniels + mox

fixxored for ya

[mox 298]

Oooh, commie red font...I like!

[Chica Yeyé 41]

Oooh, commie red font...I like!

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Interview with Jennifer Loewenstein - Director of Middle East Studies, University of Wisconsin.

Loewenstein lived in Israel in 1963 as a child when her father played first trumpet in the Israel Philharmonic Orchestra. She went back in 1981 as a junior in college, and returned as an adult, living in Palestinian refugee camps in Beirut and traveling in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, where she worked for five months in 2002 at the Mezan Center for Human Rights in Gaza City ^[7] and writing in the Palestine Chronicle that "The Israelis are masters in the art of destruction." ^[8] She has returned to Gaza a number of times. ^[9]

....................................

G21: Let's begin with a bit of background. What got you interested in the Israeli/Palestinian question and prompted some of the perspectives one finds in your published work?

LOEWENSTEIN: It's difficult to find one or two things that sparked my interest. I think many things led to my wanting to learn more about the I/P situation. I grew up in a Jewish household in a suburb of Detroit and lived in Israel as a small child. I have many relatives there. I wanted to know more about them when I was older (and back living in the US). I remember my mother sending a box of clothing to my cousins just before the 1967 War because there were blockades on Israel. I wanted to understand why. Back then, I believed what my pare nts and friends all said -- that Israel was the victim of aggression and hatred. I wanted to stand up for Israel.

At the same time, however, my parents were passionate supporters of the US Civil Rights movement, which was going on in the 60s when I was a child. They were also outspoken opponents of the Vietnam War. We had many friends who participated in demonstrations and got arrested for their anti-war activities. These things made a deep impression on me and from a very early age I was preoccupied with social and political justice issues. Of course, my understanding of things back then was simplistic, but I think this was the beginning of desire to be an activist for human rights.

When I was a junior in college at Kalamazoo College in Kalamazoo, Michigan, I chose to spend my year abroad in Jerusalem, Israel. I was a young Zionist -- or that's how I thought of myself -- and wanted to celebrate my roots and my identity by going to Israel again and studying Jewish and Israeli history. The problem was that this time I was old enough to see that there were serious problems in Israeli society. I watched as Jewish American friends made jokes about Arabs and imitated Arabic in a vulgar way. I saw a society around me where there were the "right" people -- European Jews, the "OK" people -- Jews from other parts of the world, and the "wrong" people -- the Palestinians. They were treated like dogs. Israelis and Americans alike behaved as if these people were invisible, or worse, as if they were the enemy not to be trusted or spoken to. It was so obvious and so clear that I am still amazed that others who visit Israel (now and who visited in the past) are not equally appalled, especially as the situation is so much worse now than 24 years ago.

I began to question what I had been taught, and slowly, my views began to change. I did not become anti-Zionist over night; it took many years for me to come to the conclusion that Jewish nationalism (Zionism) -- in the forms it had taken -- is wrong and that I wanted to work to oppose it.

G21: Did you discuss your observations about the classification of people with your friends in Israel during that visit? How did they respond?

LOEWENSTEIN: No, I kept most of my thoughts to myself. On the other hand, my roommate Beatriz and I used to take long walks and talk about our thoughts. She was one of only two non-Jews on the program and, interestingly (or so it seems to me now), seemed to see things more clearly. I remember once walking with her in downtown West Jerusalem one evening. She said she didn't think Israel would last more than a hundred years or so -- there was "something wrong" with it; too "artificial" or something. I knew what she meant. It was a private thought we'd both had -- that a state built on the destruction of another people -- in an anti-colonial time -- would not survive. I still think this.

G21: What type of reactions have you received to your work (and thesis on these issues) over the years?

LOEWENSTEIN: As expected, I have gotten hysterical and angry reactions from the mainstream, established Jewish community in the US. I am virtually excommunicated from the Jewish community in Madison, Wisconsin, for example -- the city I live in.

.....

I have received death threats, angry letters, derogatory letters, email viruses. I have been accused of desiring "the destruction of Israel" and of "supporting suicide bombings".

These are all lies, but no one in the Jewish community has yet sought to speak to me directly for clarification.

Again, this shows the kind of hysteria associated with criticism of Israel. (I have been accused of being a self-hater and an anti-Semite as well, of course.) It's easier to try to demonize and marginalize someone you don't like than to invite her to have open dialogue with people who disagree. This is because they really have no interest in allowing my views an open forum. It might mean that Israel's status as "special partner" with the US would be diminished; that real peace for Palestinians might be desirable rather than the pitiful charade we see on television about how steps like "Disengagement" are going to lead to better days ahead. In fact, I believe the days ahead are, in many ways, going to be worse than what we have seen up to now.

On the other hand, on the question of how people have reacted to me I want to say that there are many peace activist Jews in the US and Israel who have been deeply supportive of my work and my writings. I am very grateful to them. There are also many Arab and Muslim activists who have been supportive and very helpful to me. I am indebted to all of these people not only for their support but also for the tireless energy and effort they put into this badly needed work.

G21: How do you rationalize being so far out of the "mainstream" on these issues. And secondly, why do you think you are?

LOEWENSTEIN: I don't think I'm "radical" at all. I think I'm very moderate: I advocate non-violence and a single bi-national state in Israel/Palestine. I believe in universal human rights and equal citizenship under the law. The real question here is why the "mainstream" views me as marginal and dangerous -- or at least this is how the powers that be view me. This is something we need to examine closely. What does it say about our real "values" and long term goals? If my views are as threatening as they apparently are, our society is in much worse shape than I thought. But I think most people would not view me as threatening if they could see me through something other than the lens of those who control our thinking and our behavior here at home.

...

G21: As you know, we found you through your recent article at CounterPunch.org. For the lazy among our readers, can you briefly restate your position about the recent media saturation on the Disengagement in Gaza, please?

LOEWENSTEIN: The "Disengagement" from Gaza is not a step toward peace. It was a unilateral act by the government of Israel intended to consolidate control over the West Bank, to further separate Palestinians in the Gaza Strip from Palestinians in the West Bank and East Jerusalem, and it was made to look like an enormous sacrifice that should more than justify Israel's continued theft of more and more Palestinian land and resources especially around Jerusalem but elsewhere as well.

Furthermore, the Gaza Strip is still occupied territory because Israel retains full control over the land, air and sea accesses to it. Israel also retains control over the exit and entrance of people and goods into Gaza as well as the supply of water and electricity. It has the right to determine which international aid organizations can enter, and it has the right to invade or attack Gaza at whim.

Poverty and unemployment will increase in the Strip as the result of "Disengagement" and its concomitant policies.

The focus on the "trauma" of illegal Jewish settlers having to be "uprooted" from their homes is grotesque given the tragic and wholly preventable history of the Palestinian people at the hands of the Zionist army in '47 and '48 and the Israeli State in '67 and beyond. Israel has never treated even its own "Israeli Arab" population with dignity or accorded them equal citizenship under the law. What it has done -- and is doing -- to the Palestinians living under occupation is well beyond shameful.

G21: What are the signs of hope you see for change here in the United States and for a more equitable situation in the Middle East?

LOEWENSTEIN: The single most promising sign of hope I've seen recently was the response I received from my CounterPunch article. In less than two weeks I received more than 400 emails, ninety percent of which were supportive and positive, and almost all of which decried the distortions and outright lies presented to us by the corporate media.

Many messages came from Arabs, Muslims and Jews but most came from the "average" Joes and Joannas -- people who, a decade ago, would not have been interested in this subject (assuming it wasn't their concern).

I've been an activist on this issue for 24 years -- and in the past few years the composition of activist groups on the subject of Israel/Palestine has noticeably changed: many Americans are beginning to understand that the US-backed occupation of Palestinian lands is at the heart of a failed and dangerous US foreign policy. When a majority of Americans sees this, there will be genuine and constructive change in the region. I just hope it doesn't come too late.

http://www.g21.net/midE18.htm

[Ban Hammer 13,345]

Just look at Steven's posts and you will see

• hatred of the western consumer society in which he lives
• hatred of corporations and capitalism
• hatred of globalization
• America - the great Satan for the Greens
• America - the killer of Kyoto
• America - the maker of genetically modified foods
• America - the exporter of McDonald's, Disney, Hollywood trash and Starbucks
• Cowardice and pandering to Muslims

#######?! I'm Muslim, but I've never been pandered to by Steven!!

well it is a rather long line...

[mawilson 2,133]

Interview with Jennifer Loewenstein - Director of Middle East Studies, University of Wisconsin.

Loewenstein lived in Israel in 1963 as a child when her father played first trumpet in the Israel Philharmonic Orchestra. She went back in 1981 as a junior in college, and returned as an adult, living in Palestinian refugee camps in Beirut and traveling in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, where she worked for five months in 2002 at the Mezan Center for Human Rights in Gaza City ^[7] and writing in the Palestine Chronicle that "The Israelis are masters in the art of destruction." ^[8] She has returned to Gaza a number of times. ^[9]

^{Thank you Steven for this, listed as #6:}

^{6. Jews Who Hate Israel}

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Interview with Jennifer Loewenstein - Director of Middle East Studies, University of Wisconsin.

Loewenstein lived in Israel in 1963 as a child when her father played first trumpet in the Israel Philharmonic Orchestra. She went back in 1981 as a junior in college, and returned as an adult, living in Palestinian refugee camps in Beirut and traveling in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, where she worked for five months in 2002 at the Mezan Center for Human Rights in Gaza City ^[7] and writing in the Palestine Chronicle that "The Israelis are masters in the art of destruction." ^[8] She has returned to Gaza a number of times. ^[9]

^{Thank you Steven for this, listed as #6:}

^{6. Jews Who Hate Israel}

^{The policies of the hawkish, armaggedon-bent neo-cons are on their way out. Trying to marginalize reasonable thinking from both Jews and Arabs in solving the Palestinian/Israeli conflict isn't going to negate their arguments for real, peaceful solutions.}

[bhajishah 4]

Moast bible thumpers i run into love Israel as the chosen peoples of God, usually kindred with Jews for hate towards the "scourge of Islam" yada yawn blah

[mawilson 2,133]

The policies of the hawkish, armaggedon-bent neo-cons are on their way out. Trying to marginalize reasonable thinking from both Jews and Arabs in solving the Palestinian/Israeli conflict isn't going to negate their arguments for real, peaceful solutions.

Maybe in America (although even that is debatable), but certainly not in Israel.

The only real solution is a perpetual war to keep the whole region busy until their oil runs out.

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

Just look at Steven's posts and you will see

• hatred of the western consumer society in which he lives
• hatred of corporations and capitalism
• hatred of globalization
• America - the great Satan for the Greens
• America - the killer of Kyoto
• America - the maker of genetically modified foods
• America - the exporter of McDonald's, Disney, Hollywood trash and Starbucks
• Cowardice and pandering to Muslims

spot on

[mawilson 2,133]

Moast bible thumpers i run into love Israel as the chosen peoples of God, usually kindred with Jews for hate towards the "scourge of Islam" yada yawn blah

And most Koran thumpers hate Israel.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

The policies of the hawkish, armaggedon-bent neo-cons are on their way out. Trying to marginalize reasonable thinking from both Jews and Arabs in solving the Palestinian/Israeli conflict isn't going to negate their arguments for real, peaceful solutions.

Maybe in America (although even that is debatable), but certainly not in Israel.

The only real solution is a perpetual war to keep the whole region busy until their oil runs out.

Right. That's like saying Americans are all united behind Bush's policies. Israeli's are as politically diverse as we are here.

The Torah teaches: 'Justice, justice, you shall pursue' (Deuteronomy 16:20).

To secure a lasting settlement to the conflict between Palestinians and Israelis so they can live in peace and security, thrive side by side, and co-operate together, Jews today are obligated to pursue justice on behalf of both peoples."

RABBI ELIZABETH TIKVAH SARAH

Jews for Justice for Palestinians is a network of Jews who are British or live in Britain, practising and secular, Zionist and not. We oppose Israeli policies that undermine the livelihoods, human, civil and political rights of the Palestinian people.

We support the right of Israelis to live in freedom and security within Israel's 1967 borders.

As well as organising to ensure that Jewish opinions critical of Israeli policy are heard in Britain, we extend support to Palestinians trapped in the spiral of violence and repression. We believe that such actions are important in countering antisemitism and the claim that opposition to Israel's destructive policies is itself antisemitic.

We cooperate with other organisations on specific issues without necessarily endorsing everything they do.

We work to build world-wide Jewish opposition to the Israeli Occupation, with like-minded groups around the world and are a founding member of European Jews for a Just Peace, a federation of Jewish groups in ten European countries whose principles include:

• condemnation of all violence against civilians in the conflict, no matter by whom it is carried out.
• recognition of Israel's 1967 'green line' borders;
• commitment to the Palestinians' right to a state in the territories currently occupied by Israel in the West Bank, East Jerusalem and Gaza;
• calling on Israel to acknowledge its part in the creation of the Palestinian refugee problem and its obligation to negotiate a just, fair and practical resolution of the issue.

"Israel must withdraw from all the settlements and dismantlethe wall within Palestinian territory.

Then, perhaps, we may at last see some justice for Palestinians."

MIRIAM KARLIN OBE

In mid 2008, our over thirteen hundred and fifty signatories included five rabbis; 99 professors (including five Fellows of the Royal Society and two fellows of the British Association); 126 medical and academic doctors; several OBEs, CBEs and MBEs, five knights and one Member of Parliament.

The list includes Helen Bamber,Geoffrey Bindman, Anthony Caro, Jenny Diski, Stephen Fry, Eric Hobsbawm, Nicholas Hytner, Miriam Karlin, Nicolas Kent, Mike Leigh, Miriam Margolyes, Jonathan Miller, Susie Orbach, Harold Pinter, Jacqueline Rose, Alexei Sayle, Antony Sher, Avi Shlaim, Gillian Slovo, Tom Stoppard, Janel Suzman and Zoë Wanamaker.

"Sharon cannot be allowed to speak for British Jews — he does not speak in our name.

Jews for Justice for Palestinians gives expression to the many alternative views within the community."

MICHAEL ROSEN

All our signatories can be found at http://www.jfjfp.org/signatories.htm

Edited January 6, 2009 by Mister Fancypants