Pro-Hamas Demonstration - Fort Lauderdale FL

[Ban Hammer 13,345]

i have to wonder if the same people that see nothing wrong with these protester's rhetoric would be so forgiving if it were israeli supporters saying similar things about palestinians.

Edited January 4, 2009 by charles!

[~PalmTreeGurl~ 154]

i have to wonder if the same people that see nothing wrong with these protester's rhetoric would be so forgiving if it were israeli supporters saying similar things about palestinians.

that is yet another excellent point... I was wondering when this would be pointed out

[one...two...tree 2,762]

i have to wonder if the same people that see nothing wrong with these protester's rhetoric would be so forgiving if it were israeli supporters saying similar things about palestinians.

I'm not sure if you're including me in that group, Charles - but I did use the words 'vile and disgusting.' You should also wonder if you could ever admit fault on the side of Israel - the atrocities they have committed. To take the position that there is clearly a good side and a bad side in the Palestinian/Israeli conflict has no basis in reality.

[sereia 0]

My husband and I just finished watching "Flight 93" which brought up some very raw emotions for me. This was our country, our people, our friends and family that was being attacked. I cried, I cried hard. And my husband who is an Arab Christian held me and said, Love your enemies anyways and pray for them.

Isnt that what we should be doing, is showing our enemies love and not hate? So whatever that woman has gone through in life, the worlds fullness of people has went thru the same things, it doesnt warrant hate and cursing and posters of nuking countries. No enemy will be won over with hate unless you plan on being their enemy forever, but they will be won by love and true peace... .

This reminds me of a special I saw on the news tonight about a top Hamas leader's son converting to Christianity.

But here's an old article about it. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,402483,00.html

[britty 1]

i have to wonder if the same people that see nothing wrong with these protester's rhetoric would be so forgiving if it were israeli supporters saying similar things about palestinians.

I'm not sure if you're including me in that group, Charles - but I did use the words 'vile and disgusting.' You should also wonder if you could ever admit fault on the side of Israel - the atrocities they have committed. To take the position that there is clearly a good side and a bad side in the Palestinian/Israeli conflict has no basis in reality.

But what has that really got to do with this particular issue? Are we not discussing a group of hateful individuals who saw fit to spit their poison at a group of people under the guise of a "protest"?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Relativising the issue is pointless. Pointing out that there is an almost unlimited right to free speech in this country that these people are protected by is really the issue. You can't very well go around taking offence at one group of racists over another when it comes to free speech.

Racist Muslim extremists are no more offensive than white supremacists, though reading this thread you might no think so.

Unless they start blowing stuff up or otherwise killing people they don't like, they have a constitutionally protected right to express opinions, even if their ideas are abhorrent or evil.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Relativising the issue is pointless. Pointing out that there is an almost unlimited right to free speech in this country that these people are protected by is really the issue. You can't very well go around taking offence at one group of racists over another when it comes to free speech.

Racist Muslim extremists are no more offensive than white supremacists, though reading this thread you might no think so.

Unless they start blowing stuff up or otherwise killing people they don't like, they have a constitutionally protected right to express opinions, even if their ideas are abhorrent or evil.

...but to some here - the guilt by association works perfectly. Palestinians voted for the Hamas therefore they support terrorism. Every Palestinian man, woman and child bares the bloodstains of all Jews killed ever, past and present by proxy. And if they really don't think that way, they would simply get rid of the Hamas themselves, like the Afghans got rid of the Taliban, or how the Iraqi people got rid of Saddam.

[~PalmTreeGurl~ 154]

My husband and I just finished watching "Flight 93" which brought up some very raw emotions for me. This was our country, our people, our friends and family that was being attacked. I cried, I cried hard. And my husband who is an Arab Christian held me and said, Love your enemies anyways and pray for them.

Isnt that what we should be doing, is showing our enemies love and not hate? So whatever that woman has gone through in life, the worlds fullness of people has went thru the same things, it doesnt warrant hate and cursing and posters of nuking countries. No enemy will be won over with hate unless you plan on being their enemy forever, but they will be won by love and true peace... .

This reminds me of a special I saw on the news tonight about a top Hamas leader's son converting to Christianity.

But here's an old article about it. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,402483,00.html

Thank you for sharing! This is the first time I got the chance to read his testimoney. This is a very similar situation to my husbands life that was changed.

I will post a quote from MOSAB HASSAN YOUSEF the top hamas leaders son.

Its the message that is true to all people everywhere...

"My message even to the Israeli soldiers: at least treat people in a good way at the checkpoints. You don't have to look really bad and it's not about nations, it's about just wrong ideas on both sides and the only way for two nations really to get out of the endless circle is to know the principles that Jesus brought to this earth: grace, love, forgiveness. Without this, they will never be able to move on, or break this endless circle."

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Relativising the issue is pointless. Pointing out that there is an almost unlimited right to free speech in this country that these people are protected by is really the issue. You can't very well go around taking offence at one group of racists over another when it comes to free speech.

Racist Muslim extremists are no more offensive than white supremacists, though reading this thread you might no think so.

Unless they start blowing stuff up or otherwise killing people they don't like, they have a constitutionally protected right to express opinions, even if their ideas are abhorrent or evil.

...but to some here - the guilt by association works perfectly. Palestinians voted for the Hamas therefore they support terrorism. Every Palestinian man, woman and child bares the bloodstains of all Jews killed ever, past and present by proxy. And if they really don't think that way, they would simply get rid of the Hamas themselves, like the Afghans got rid of the Taliban, or how the Iraqi people got rid of Saddam.

There's plenty of demonising going on. Its rather silly to take sides, though honestly what the protesters said on that video did isn't much worse than some of the comments seen on these forums - certainly in regard to cavalier statements endorsing genocide as a way of solving problems.

The point should surely be that ignorance is universal, but that it isn't a crime to be ignorant.

[DeadPoolX 9]

Relativising the issue is pointless. Pointing out that there is an almost unlimited right to free speech in this country that these people are protected by is really the issue. You can't very well go around taking offence at one group of racists over another when it comes to free speech.

Racist Muslim extremists are no more offensive than white supremacists, though reading this thread you might no think so.

Unless they start blowing stuff up or otherwise killing people they don't like, they have a constitutionally protected right to express opinions, even if their ideas are abhorrent or evil.

...but to some here - the guilt by association works perfectly. Palestinians voted for the Hamas therefore they support terrorism. Every Palestinian man, woman and child bares the bloodstains of all Jews killed ever, past and present by proxy. And if they really don't think that way, they would simply get rid of the Hamas themselves, like the Afghans got rid of the Taliban, or how the Iraqi people got rid of Saddam.

There's plenty of demonising going on. Its rather silly to take sides, though honestly what the protesters said on that video did isn't much worse than some of the comments seen on these forums - certainly in regard to cavalier statements endorsing genocide as a way of solving problems.

The point should surely be that ignorance is universal, but that it isn't a crime to be ignorant.

There is a difference, however. The comments made on this board are not widely publicized in the news. What's discussed here stays (for the most part) between the people involved in the discussion. We're not attempting to reach a national or international audience. The same cannot be said for those who engage in inflammatory protests, screaming for people to die and is covered by the media.

[Nagishkaw 510]

Some things never change. Sigh.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Relativising the issue is pointless. Pointing out that there is an almost unlimited right to free speech in this country that these people are protected by is really the issue. You can't very well go around taking offence at one group of racists over another when it comes to free speech.

Racist Muslim extremists are no more offensive than white supremacists, though reading this thread you might no think so.

Unless they start blowing stuff up or otherwise killing people they don't like, they have a constitutionally protected right to express opinions, even if their ideas are abhorrent or evil.

...but to some here - the guilt by association works perfectly. Palestinians voted for the Hamas therefore they support terrorism. Every Palestinian man, woman and child bares the bloodstains of all Jews killed ever, past and present by proxy. And if they really don't think that way, they would simply get rid of the Hamas themselves, like the Afghans got rid of the Taliban, or how the Iraqi people got rid of Saddam.

There's plenty of demonising going on. Its rather silly to take sides, though honestly what the protesters said on that video did isn't much worse than some of the comments seen on these forums - certainly in regard to cavalier statements endorsing genocide as a way of solving problems.

The point should surely be that ignorance is universal, but that it isn't a crime to be ignorant.

There is a difference, however. The comments made on this board are not widely publicized in the news. What's discussed here stays (for the most part) between the people involved in the discussion. We're not attempting to reach a national or international audience. The same cannot be said for those who engage in inflammatory protests, screaming for people to die and is covered by the media.

So your point is that its ok to express ignorant hate-filled extremist opinions so long as one doesn't seek media exposure for them?

I'm not sure I see the important distinction there.

[~PalmTreeGurl~ 154]

btw, one woman did this... where is the outrage of this... some people are too consumed with anger and hate over what Israel is trying to accomplish that they forget about one person doing this?!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090104/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_iraq

A female suicide bomber blew herself up on Sunday among a crowd of pilgrims worshipping at a revered Shiite shrine in northern Baghdad, killing at least 38 people and wounding about 72, the Iraqi army and police said.

In my mind, one terrorist alone is doing more damage to their own people and country while yet Israel trying to get hamas gets blamed for civilians and accused of worse things than the suicide bombers themselves.

[DeadPoolX 9]

Relativising the issue is pointless. Pointing out that there is an almost unlimited right to free speech in this country that these people are protected by is really the issue. You can't very well go around taking offence at one group of racists over another when it comes to free speech.

Racist Muslim extremists are no more offensive than white supremacists, though reading this thread you might no think so.

Unless they start blowing stuff up or otherwise killing people they don't like, they have a constitutionally protected right to express opinions, even if their ideas are abhorrent or evil.

...but to some here - the guilt by association works perfectly. Palestinians voted for the Hamas therefore they support terrorism. Every Palestinian man, woman and child bares the bloodstains of all Jews killed ever, past and present by proxy. And if they really don't think that way, they would simply get rid of the Hamas themselves, like the Afghans got rid of the Taliban, or how the Iraqi people got rid of Saddam.

There's plenty of demonising going on. Its rather silly to take sides, though honestly what the protesters said on that video did isn't much worse than some of the comments seen on these forums - certainly in regard to cavalier statements endorsing genocide as a way of solving problems.

The point should surely be that ignorance is universal, but that it isn't a crime to be ignorant.

There is a difference, however. The comments made on this board are not widely publicized in the news. What's discussed here stays (for the most part) between the people involved in the discussion. We're not attempting to reach a national or international audience. The same cannot be said for those who engage in inflammatory protests, screaming for people to die and is covered by the media.

So your point is that its ok to express ignorant hate-filled extremist opinions so long as one doesn't seek media exposure for them?

I'm not sure I see the important distinction there.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. The point is that where and how this opinion is made (and by whom) can matter a whole lot.

If one of us espouse something hate-filled and/or extremist, it means very little on a national or international level. If a group or a celebrity does the same, it's given far more weight simply because the media can focus in on it.

People are lazy. It's much easier for them to watch TV or read the newspaper than go online to look for hate-filled commentary. In addition, if a friend or family member says something like this, what happens? You may argue with them, but their opinion won't be displayed on the evening news nor would you publicize their statements.

In effect, those who claim media exposure reach more people and therefore, are a greater concern than a virtual nobody screaming their guts out on a message board.

[doodlebugg 10]

i have to wonder if the same people that see nothing wrong with these protester's rhetoric would be so forgiving if it were israeli supporters saying similar things about palestinians.

If you're talking about me I did state that what the woman said in that video was wrong. Also, I pointed out that we don't have a video of what the Israeli side was saying so how do you personally know that the Israeli supporters weren't saying similar wrong things? Again this is a one sided report. But also again, the things spewing out of that woman's mouth were disgusting and unacceptable.