green card marriages, ladies beware

[KHPerfectMatch 1]

Several people have stated that they think if they go to live in his country that they are dodging the geen card marriage bullet. I am sorry to say this isn't the case. I have heard from several young men in Egypt that to avoid suspicion on the part of the USC they have changed their MO. They now say they DO NOT want to travel and convince the USC to come to live in Egypt KNOWING that sooner or later (likely sooner) she will want to go home and then they will "reluctantly" follow. They know this takes time but if they can get her to start the paperwork while she is in Egypt living there, they land here on two feet with their green card in hand.

Unfortunately there is also a trend where they convince the woman to come here long enough to get them settled here and then suggest she return to raise their children (or just live without working) in Egypt while they stay here to "support" the family. They then take a 2nd wife here and when the 1st wife finds out she is willing to divorce and it's a done deal.

Egyptians built the pyramids, they have MUCH patience and the men have no "biological clocks" ticking away making them want to settle down for the LONG HAUL. It's nothing for a man to return to Egypt from the west at 45 or 50 and get married to a local girl and start making babies. They did their time in the west and accumulated enough $ to afford a family.

I know one 48 yr old Egyptian guy here that collected Canadian Citizenship and work experience in both Canada and the USA before finally marrying an arab girl. At 53 he now has 4 kids and he often sends his wife to EGypt with the kids to take his of his ANCIENT Mom. He stays here and works and enjoys the "single life" while she prepares their home for his golden years in EGypt. She was 30 when they married and feels like she has the world by the tail. A "rich" husband, 4 kids, a home in Egypt and the USA and she will probably not have to take care of him for too many years because he's so much older than her and bad health habits and a high strung personality will likely lead him to an early demise. Bottomline is, they both got what they wanted so it's all good in my book... It's when only ONE party gets what they are looking for that I get pissed off...

I swear some guy in Egypt has written a "How To Manual" for marrying USC's and there's a copy in every net cafe in EGypt... (I sat in quite a few watching them follow it not knowing I understood them.... )

You just never know until the end. (be it good or bad)

[SaadBell 0]

Several people have stated that they think if they go to live in his country that they are dodging the geen card marriage bullet. I am sorry to say this isn't the case. I have heard from several young men in Egypt that to avoid suspicion on the part of the USC they have changed their MO. They now say they DO NOT want to travel and convince the USC to come to live in Egypt KNOWING that sooner or later (likely sooner) she will want to go home and then they will "reluctantly" follow. They know this takes time but if they can get her to start the paperwork while she is in Egypt living there, they land here on two feet with their green card in hand.

Unfortunately there is also a trend where they convince the woman to come here long enough to get them settled here and then suggest she return to raise their children (or just live without working) in Egypt while they stay here to "support" the family. They then take a 2nd wife here and when the 1st wife finds out she is willing to divorce and it's a done deal.

Egyptians built the pyramids, they have MUCH patience and the men have no "biological clocks" ticking away making them want to settle down for the LONG HAUL. It's nothing for a man to return to Egypt from the west at 45 or 50 and get married to a local girl and start making babies. They did their time in the west and accumulated enough $ to afford a family.

I know one 48 yr old Egyptian guy here that collected Canadian Citizenship and work experience in both Canada and the USA before finally marrying an arab girl. At 53 he now has 4 kids and he often sends his wife to EGypt with the kids to take his of his ANCIENT Mom. He stays here and works and enjoys the "single life" while she prepares their home for his golden years in EGypt. She was 30 when they married and feels like she has the world by the tail. A "rich" husband, 4 kids, a home in Egypt and the USA and she will probably not have to take care of him for too many years because he's so much older than her and bad health habits and a high strung personality will likely lead him to an early demise. Bottomline is, they both got what they wanted so it's all good in my book... It's when only ONE party gets what they are looking for that I get pissed off...

I swear some guy in Egypt has written a "How To Manual" for marrying USC's and there's a copy in every net cafe in EGypt... (I sat in quite a few watching them follow it not knowing I understood them.... )

You just never know until the end. (be it good or bad)

I have to say spot on my sister, you are correct, but we must remember we are AMERICANS and we as strong women should write our own book and turn the tables on them. If they do this kind of little trick they should be rewarded, and not in a wonderful way, but something that would make the next man think twice before attempting this act. I always wonder what would happen if one of these men found a pure crazy psychotic women, one that has a special way to show she loves her man. A women like Katherine Knight, although from Australia, she would make someone think twice, she was a wee bit unhappy, of course crazy crazy crazy, so one day her man didn’t show up for work, and he was always at work, friends worried and called the police to see if all was well with their friend. When the police came to the house, no one answered the door, police were concerned forced entry to the home through the rear door of the house, and there they found the man’s decapitated remains on the lounge room floor near a small foyer leading to the front door. In the kitchen there was a pot full of liquid and on the surface the officers could identify a skinned human head and a number of cooked vegetables. Katherine had prepared meals that consisted of two pieces of cooked meat, baked potato, baked pumpkin, , baked potato, baked pumpkin, zucchini, cabbage, yellow squash and gravy. Underneath each of the meals was a torn section of kitchen paper with a name written on it. The word "Beaky" was written in blue ink pen on one of the pieces while the word "Jonathon" was on the other. Those were for his children, thank god they never saw this and were not there, but I think you get the idea. I always tell nice stories to make sure that my husband knows, I may not be crazy, but I might just have some crazy friends who would not want to see me heartbroken. Ok enough, but yea share with your husbands and boyfriends a nice warm loving story of a western women idea of getting even.

[Melly 2 0]

Honestly I find all the warnings a bit much.

Just because some men do something doesn't mean they all do it.

Why all the doom and gloom all the time?

Why can't you be positive?

And what kind of woman threatens her husband??!!

As I stated previously, I'm sorry for the original poster, but it doesn't mean every man is a cheater or scammer.

[SaadBell 0]

No not all men are scammers but just the stories are heartbreaking and yes positive thinking is wonderful, but we need to be aware that there are humans among us that use people and leave their wrath in their wake. I have heard it countless times how American women are desperate, needy and have no morals, these things make my blood boil. To use anyone in that manner is heartbreaking, it doesn't only happen to women also men, and not just Americans all people are up for scams. We have plenty of men and women here who would sell their mother if they thought they could make a profit. Of course one can't just live in the clouds, although it would be wonderful to do that, I would need major drugs, but you must be realistic, and never think just because it is you, it won't happen. If I thought I could save someone a heartbreak and financial loss, than I would do what I could to make that happen. To stand back and say nothing than I am as guilty as the person that did the dirty deed, I want all these marriages to be wonderful and happy and see everyone live happily ever after, how could one not want that, but the reality is not all people are honest. I have been used and taken myself and would do all to try to prevent that heartache I experience to not happen to someone else. If I see a fellow human walking towards a cliff would I not try to warn and protect, how could I just close my eyes and let them leap. If they do I will always try to pick up the pieces, but to warn is always something I will do, cause I have seen firsthand what some of these people do, destroy lives, and move on as if none of it matters. I am always trying to be positive, but when this does come up we must look into ourselves and really think of what if. If a person ask my honest answer I will always try to see both sides the best result and the worst result. Let us stand for our fellow beings and always try to do the right thing, that is all anyone can ever do.

[KHPerfectMatch 1]

Honestly I find all the warnings a bit much.

Just because some men do something doesn't mean they all do it.

Why all the doom and gloom all the time?

Why can't you be positive?

And what kind of woman threatens her husband??!!

As I stated previously, I'm sorry for the original poster, but it doesn't mean every man is a cheater or scammer.

Absolutely right, they don't ALL do anything... And I'm positive of this... and that's all I'm positive of.

After 30 years of watching I am so very very weary of seeing the destruction that relationships built on fraud can create for typically the women and children, and occasionally the men too who are bamboozled by clever and PATIENT con artists.

And when I hear of ANOTHER case, it reminds me of all the ones I've seen over 3 decades of being in this community, although I believe the internet as mushroomed this problem into proportions I could NEVER have imagined in 1978 when I first became involved with the MENA community.

Back then it was mainly men on student visas that wanted to stay here after they finished their education, (and marriage was a quick and easy way to accomplish that) or Saudi students who married American women "Islamically" so they could have halal sex and then left them here (with the children they had during the scam) and went home to marry their cousins, never to be seen again.

To this day we have American women who show up at the Muslim Community functions with their half arab children wanting to connect their children with 'bio-Dad's" culture/faith, or asking us about how they can get in touch with their children's fathers who have returned to KSA, UAE, or elsewhere, thinking we can help them in some way. It BREAKS MY HEART! And it shames me to the core as a Muslim who has NO ANSWER for them about how they can undo the damage that has been done to these innocent children. Hezbi Allah....

I don't think it's unbalanced to occasionally discuss and "admit" that things are NOT always what they seem. There are many posts filled with hearts, flowers, roses, and harps in many of the threads on this group. To have one, ONCE IN AWHILE that deals with the OTHER outcome... (which I"m sure most people THINK is miniscule...) is actually quite healthy. Although I agree with everyone else does almost NO GOOD, except for those who have seen and dealt with the fall out of these "time bombs" and feel COMPELLED to speak up, if nothing else, to keep a clear conscious.

Sorry this point of view is considered being "negative"... As someone else said, I'm sure no one on this group is involved with that one guy in MENA, who's intentions are not pure as the driven snow... And if can only find him and put a label on his forehead, we'll ALL breathe easier!

[childress_london 3]

Exactly. Everything on this thread is negative because this topic is a negative one. If you want to read the everything's rosy and wonderful stories, go to the rosy and wonderful story thread. I see nothing wrong with discussing both sides of an issue - good and bad. I think everyone here is intelligent enough to know that life is not either all black or all white.

[KHPerfectMatch 1]

I have to say spot on my sister, you are correct, but we must remember we are AMERICANS and we as strong women should write our own book and turn the tables on them. If they do this kind of little trick they should be rewarded, and not in a wonderful way, but something that would make the next man think twice before attempting this act. I always wonder what would happen if one of these men found a pure crazy psychotic women, one that has a special way to show she loves her man. A women like Katherine Knight, although from Australia, she would make someone think twice, she was a wee bit unhappy, of course crazy crazy crazy, so one day her man didn't show up for work, and he was always at work, friends worried and called the police to see if all was well with their friend. When the police came to the house, no one answered the door, police were concerned forced entry to the home through the rear door of the house, and there they found the man's decapitated remains on the lounge room floor near a small foyer leading to the front door. In the kitchen there was a pot full of liquid and on the surface the officers could identify a skinned human head and a number of cooked vegetables. Katherine had prepared meals that consisted of two pieces of cooked meat, baked potato, baked pumpkin, , baked potato, baked pumpkin, zucchini, cabbage, yellow squash and gravy. Underneath each of the meals was a torn section of kitchen paper with a name written on it. The word "Beaky" was written in blue ink pen on one of the pieces while the word "Jonathon" was on the other. Those were for his children, thank god they never saw this and were not there, but I think you get the idea. I always tell nice stories to make sure that my husband knows, I may not be crazy, but I might just have some crazy friends who would not want to see me heartbroken. Ok enough, but yea share with your husbands and boyfriends a nice warm loving story of a western women idea of getting even.

I don't think I'll tell him THIS story... But I think you've hit a really important POINT.... Right on the head...

When there are NO CONSEQUENCES for their bad behavior, people do things they would never dream of IF THERE WERE consequences...

If a MENA man pulled a scam, like the ones we hear about, on a MENA woman, he'd be dead. Maybe not cooked into the stew, but he'd wake up one day with his throat cut... or if he was lucky, with all his teeth missing and half his bones broken, but still alive... And EVERYONE would be warned about him and his whole family would be shamed...

In Upper Egypt they don't like to involve the police in domestic cases because of the shame it would be on the family of the aggrieved woman if the scoundrel wasn't "dealt with" by HER family. They couldn't sleep at night if they knew he was just sitting in a jail somewhere... that wouldn't do AT ALL!

American women are seen by the scammers as DEFENSELESS. What's the worst that could happen? They end up back in MENA, which is where they started out....BIG WHOOP! The risk (negligible) of using an American woman for a ticket to a new life, is worth the possible REWARD.....

Most MENA men are not afraid of the brothers, fathers, or uncles etc. of their American wives. Heck how could these men be any threat when they didn't even have to take their permission to marry her! (Which they may equate with not caring AT ALL about her...) And when a woman marries a man who her family disapproves of, the man doesn't feel that he has any risk from them because she disobeyed them or displeased them from the get go, so she's only going to get an "I told you so".. and he gets off scott free! And green card fraud, in the USA it is not punished criminally... so no fear of Uncle Sam either.

I am so grateful that I have a MENA son (full grown and capable of doing SERIOUS whooooop _SS on anyone who dishonored me). While it is unlikely that he would get involved to the degree that a MENA man might imagine... I am JUST FINE with letting them imagine it! PERCEPTION is EVERYTHING...

I think it would be MUCH better if there was a healthy fear of what might happen if they used and abused American women. (Real OR Perceived)

[Y's_habibitk 2]

i think this is everyone's initial response when hearing of a loved one or first starting for themsleves an "overseas" romance. "GC marriage"

My brother married a girl from england, i didnt think she was using him for a gc, i just figured she was using him to get out of her personal situation..how many women do that all over the world, with men "next door"? This was the natural response of the whole family and all of his friends. Its no secret that people get used for GC's.

While, I agree that having an open discussion about the "negatives or risks" of a situation,is a great idea. Who reads this stuff and says...omg,really?! wow!, i never thought of it that way!

i dont think living overseas is a get out of jail free card, but it doesnt seem to be the "norm".

We all know that it happens, that people sit in cafes and talk about how to get a GC via marriage. There are some countries with higher risk, like my husbands for example...he named them "greencarders" heh

I've said this before and I'll say it again; Its just as easy to fall in love with a USC as it is a native. My mom used to say it about rich men

Some people marry their USC's and truly love them, or even learn to love them..whatever. Some may even love their USC's but still have a plan to leave after the goal is accomplished. Others just pretend to love them.

Some actually have no intentions of marrying and it just happens.

It's just pretty unfair to say that every marriage that ends was a GC scam. I think its actually kind of selfish to post such a thing.

thats my two cents

II am so grateful that I have a MENA son (full grown and capable of doing SERIOUS whooooop _SS on anyone who dishonored me). While it is unlikely that he would get involved to the degree that a MENA man might imagine... I am JUST FINE with letting them imagine it! PERCEPTION is EVERYTHING...

[nunyab 0]

my mother???? 5 marriages... she said the next one is for money (all american btw as she is too)

[Imua 0]

Honestly I find all the warnings a bit much.

Just because some men do something doesn't mean they all do it.

Why all the doom and gloom all the time?

Why can't you be positive?

And what kind of woman threatens her husband??!!

As I stated previously, I'm sorry for the original poster, but it doesn't mean every man is a cheater or scammer.

Absolutely right, they don't ALL do anything... And I'm positive of this... and that's all I'm positive of.

After 30 years of watching I am so very very weary of seeing the destruction that relationships built on fraud can create for typically the women and children, and occasionally the men too who are bamboozled by clever and PATIENT con artists.

And when I hear of ANOTHER case, it reminds me of all the ones I've seen over 3 decades of being in this community, although I believe the internet as mushroomed this problem into proportions I could NEVER have imagined in 1978 when I first became involved with the MENA community.

Back then it was mainly men on student visas that wanted to stay here after they finished their education, (and marriage was a quick and easy way to accomplish that) or Saudi students who married American women "Islamically" so they could have halal sex and then left them here (with the children they had during the scam) and went home to marry their cousins, never to be seen again.

To this day we have American women who show up at the Muslim Community functions with their half arab children wanting to connect their children with 'bio-Dad's" culture/faith, or asking us about how they can get in touch with their children's fathers who have returned to KSA, UAE, or elsewhere, thinking we can help them in some way. It BREAKS MY HEART! And it shames me to the core as a Muslim who has NO ANSWER for them about how they can undo the damage that has been done to these innocent children. Hezbi Allah....

I don't think it's unbalanced to occasionally discuss and "admit" that things are NOT always what they seem. There are many posts filled with hearts, flowers, roses, and harps in many of the threads on this group. To have one, ONCE IN AWHILE that deals with the OTHER outcome... (which I"m sure most people THINK is miniscule...) is actually quite healthy. Although I agree with everyone else does almost NO GOOD, except for those who have seen and dealt with the fall out of these "time bombs" and feel COMPELLED to speak up, if nothing else, to keep a clear conscious.

Sorry this point of view is considered being "negative"... As someone else said, I'm sure no one on this group is involved with that one guy in MENA, who's intentions are not pure as the driven snow... And if can only find him and put a label on his forehead, we'll ALL breathe easier!

I guess one (sort of) positive thing you can take from your experience is for all of the American women over 40 don't despair because you can never be the mother of his children - looks like even in such a pro-natalist culture as MENA if a man is going to scam a woman, nothing will stop him, doesn't matter if she is young and fertile - the scammers have no morals or respect for women or children it seems. If the guy isn't obviously the sleazy 'hittist' type described by Hanging in there then you should just enjoy your life and marriage, be a good wife without being a victim or doormat, keep your eyes open and what will happen will happen.

[LilLoveBug 0]

I am not trying to inflame this topic but I am sincerely curious about this and I am asking with no disrespect, simply a curiousity....

Why does it seem the majority of the USC women filing for foreign men choose middle eastern men? I see a lot of these women choose Muslim men and even become Muslim themselves. Is there a reason for this? I know nothing about the religion or lifestyle (only heard the bad stuff of course) so I would honestly like to know...what is the compelling draw?

While I am not marrying a Muslim or a middle-eastern man, I am very interested in women's issues and a huge supporter of women's rights and would like to hear the U.S. women's perspective on this. :-)

Thanks

Bug

[morocco4ever 63]

I am not trying to inflame this topic but I am sincerely curious about this and I am asking with no disrespect, simply a curiousity....

Why does it seem the majority of the USC women filing for foreign men choose middle eastern men? I see a lot of these women choose Muslim men and even become Muslim themselves. Is there a reason for this? I know nothing about the religion or lifestyle (only heard the bad stuff of course) so I would honestly like to know...what is the compelling draw?

While I am not marrying a Muslim or a middle-eastern man, I am very interested in women's issues and a huge supporter of women's rights and would like to hear the U.S. women's perspective on this. :-)

Thanks

Bug

Well after reading much of this, it appears that the stories have demonized all of them. But please don't base them all on this thread.

I can't speak for anyone else. I met him, I fell in love with him. It really has nothing to do with the fact that he is Moroccan, it just happened. I do find darker men attractive, but I can't even say that was the draw. We just "fit".

[Nothing1234 2]

I am not trying to inflame this topic but I am sincerely curious about this and I am asking with no disrespect, simply a curiousity....

Why does it seem the majority of the USC women filing for foreign men choose middle eastern men? I see a lot of these women choose Muslim men and even become Muslim themselves. Is there a reason for this? I know nothing about the religion or lifestyle (only heard the bad stuff of course) so I would honestly like to know...what is the compelling draw?

While I am not marrying a Muslim or a middle-eastern man, I am very interested in women's issues and a huge supporter of women's rights and would like to hear the U.S. women's perspective on this. :-)

Thanks

Bug

Well after reading much of this, it appears that the stories have demonized all of them. But please don't base them all on this thread.

I can't speak for anyone else. I met him, I fell in love with him. It really has nothing to do with the fact that he is Moroccan, it just happened. I do find darker men attractive, but I can't even say that was the draw. We just "fit".

I'm the same as M4E. I met my hubby, I fell in love with him. It had nothing to do with the fact that he was Egyptian, it just happened, however, it did have to do with the fact that he was Muslim because I am and had been way before we met. I do think it had a lot to do with his dancing too

Edited January 5, 2009 by Nawal

[LilLoveBug 0]

I appreciate the honest responses. Coming from the standpoint of knowing Muslim religion simply by movies like "not without my daughter" (scary), of course my first thought is: WHY????? What made you choose Muslim as your religion? I have no issues with this, I, myself, turned Buddhist after being raised traditional Christian. I do know there is a lot to be learned about religion...not just what you were "born into". What I am against, however, (and I realize that men of ALL religions can be guilty of this) is VIOLENCE of any kind toward females. Am I wrong that the Muslim religion favors the MAN and gives him rights to do what he wishes with women? If this statement is correct (I may be wrong, that is why I am here asking) then why would U.S. women ever support this? I am probably coming from a totally different viewpoint, having chosen the man I did based on his "submissive" tendencies and in my own wanting to LEAD the relationship. I know I am the exception rather than the norm in women wanting this kind of relationship, but part of my reasons for liking this kind of man is because I am very against men putting women second or thinking they have any right to look down on a woman or abuse a woman. Thanks and all my love to the women...

Bug

[sara..... 371]

I appreciate the honest responses. Coming from the standpoint of knowing Muslim religion simply by movies like "not without my daughter" (scary), of course my first thought is: WHY????? What made you choose Muslim as your religion? I have no issues with this, I, myself, turned Buddhist after being raised traditional Christian. I do know there is a lot to be learned about religion...not just what you were "born into". What I am against, however, (and I realize that men of ALL religions can be guilty of this) is VIOLENCE of any kind toward females. Am I wrong that the Muslim religion favors the MAN and gives him rights to do what he wishes with women? If this statement is correct (I may be wrong, that is why I am here asking) then why would U.S. women ever support this? I am probably coming from a totally different viewpoint, having chosen the man I did based on his "submissive" tendencies and in my own wanting to LEAD the relationship. I know I am the exception rather than the norm in women wanting this kind of relationship, but part of my reasons for liking this kind of man is because I am very against men putting women second or thinking they have any right to look down on a woman or abuse a woman. Thanks and all my love to the women...

Bug

Islam does not promote violence towards any women, it also does not give him the right to do what he wishes with women either, men have for the most part a harder time than women do when it comes to the marraige if he practices Islam as he is suppose to.

AS the man he is suppose to take care of his wife in every way, it is up to him to provide everything that she and his children need. If we work as a women he is suppose to allow us to keep what we make and not put it towards the house hold expenses. The question you ask is not a simple question to answer if you have no knowledge of Islam, as women we have more rights in Islam than the man has. If you think that the home is not ran by the women you would be wrong. It is the mans job to keep smile on his wifes face, in return she takes care of all of his needs in the home, most Muslim men treat their wifes like queens. Sure there are some real jerks out there that take things written out of context and try to apply it so that he is all that is important and makes the women nothing but this happens in all religions and cultures.

This might be a better question to put on the mena thread Im not very good with words, there are others that can give you a better answer than i just did.

sara