green card marriages, ladies beware

[merijan 0]

I appreciate the honest responses. Coming from the standpoint of knowing Muslim religion simply by movies like "not without my daughter" (scary), of course my first thought is: WHY????? What made you choose Muslim as your religion? I have no issues with this, I, myself, turned Buddhist after being raised traditional Christian. I do know there is a lot to be learned about religion...not just what you were "born into". What I am against, however, (and I realize that men of ALL religions can be guilty of this) is VIOLENCE of any kind toward females. Am I wrong that the Muslim religion favors the MAN and gives him rights to do what he wishes with women? If this statement is correct (I may be wrong, that is why I am here asking) then why would U.S. women ever support this? I am probably coming from a totally different viewpoint, having chosen the man I did based on his "submissive" tendencies and in my own wanting to LEAD the relationship. I know I am the exception rather than the norm in women wanting this kind of relationship, but part of my reasons for liking this kind of man is because I am very against men putting women second or thinking they have any right to look down on a woman or abuse a woman. Thanks and all my love to the women...

Bug

First of all let me say that I know have a wonderfull Muslim man to share my life with. He is honest, sincere, and not perfect in any way. But we love each other , share everything, and have the most important thing wich is respect. He is from Pakistan, not only that he is from one of t he most conservative cities in Pakistan , Peshawar.I was blessed by Allah thats all I know. More than 16 years ago I married a Palestinian man. He was not practiceing his Islam, he was raised in Saudi even, yet he was a little crazy. After we married and our oldedt was 2 years, we went to Saudi to visit his family. I converted right before we went. I was raised i a very strong Christian family, but I had began to question all of that for some time. Becomeing Muslim was not toataly in my heart, I did it just so we could get the Umerah Visa. But after living there for 6 months, and then returning to the states and comeing into contact with the Muslim community, I became stronger. I studeid more, took it to my heart and all of that. However after three kids and his mentality became worse, I saw he would never change so I left him. I was not intending to marry again , yet part of me was lonely, and still wanted that "dream" man. When I met my hubby online I was not wanting to have anything with him, I wanted an American Muslim, one who understood me. But things happeend and I soon realized he was the one.

There are many different kinds of men out there, Muslim men dont always follow thier religion, muslim men come from different cultures, different lifestyles. So none are perfect or even examples of Islam.

In the Quran it says we are a garmet for each other,.(husband and wife) that means we comeplete each other, we protect each other, we comfort each other. It says for men to treat their wives with kindness. It says a man is one degree over his wife, one degree is not much. That we give our husband the status of head of the household is not demeaning. In the US if you see Dr. Phil, or other shows you will see that people tell the man he has to take care of his family. So even here we see the man as the provider. My husband gets that respect and yet we both make decisions together, all decisions.

In some arab countries the man has more authority. But at the same time the woman has no problems of worrying about bills, and streeses like this. In Saudi it is hard, for sure , however most women like it becuse thier life is easy. No stress, husband takes care of all needs, even takes the kids to the dr. etc... Do I defend the womens right issues there, no its not Islamic all the time. But some women like the peace, They enjoy thier friends, gatherings all the time.. they have no major stress. Thats thier culture. Not everything we have here in USA is the ONLY way to live.

I am glad though that I live here , when I left my husband. I had all the rights against his violence, his mentaly crazy ways, I had protection. That I would not have by law in alot of Arab and South Asian countries.

But Islam is fair, if its followed the way it shoul be. However not one so called "Muslim" country does that.

I know alot , alot of arabs here. Some women have great husbands, some have husband that are **** but thats with all kinds of people. Nobody is perect.

I am so blessed to have found an honest , sincere Muslim man. And I love my faith and will never give it up. I am weak very weak right now but its still in my heart. So if I a convert feel that way , think of it. The Muslim man raised that way will never leave it, even if you think he is weak, or modern, or so open minded. Its always in him somewhere. And thats the message to women who are not Muslim and marry the mena men, someday they may come back to it, when they have kids, when they think of how to raise them. Just consider that in the future.

Salam

Raelynn

[jpaula 20]

I know we all want to defend our chosen partners--as we should. But I think that in the urge to defend we often overlook some real truths. You can take the attitude that you will ride this train while it lasts and pick yourself up should it have been a rouse. BUT, if children are involved or if you move to his country, you need to consider some factors other than your ability to pick yourself up and dust yourself off. You have to be realistic about your rights and those of your children. You can quote the Quran and describe your doting spouse, but the truth is that your rights in many Muslim countries are not equal, not as a woman and not as a foreigner, to your rights here.

I never understand why people here get so riled up about Not Without My Daughter. Granted I have not seen it in a very long time (saw it once in the theater when it came out), but the point that you, as an American mother in your husband's country, will not have the same rights over your child as you do here is a pretty important thing to know before you decide to take your child abroad. Maybe it is the Political Scientist in me, but what I remember from that movie is not scary abusive Muslim men, but the international political morass of custody laws. Yes, American men sometimes kidnap children and yes American men can be abusive. But you have MANY more legal rights here in those situations than you will if your MENA husband or your children return to his home country. Different point entirely.

I have no children and still researched like crazy before we moved to Algeria to know not only what my rights were under the law, but also how that law was or was not enforced and what kind of recourse I had. Most of this I could not know until we got there. It has nothing to do with how kind my husband is or the faith I have in our marriage. It has to do with the laws of his country. Yes, many of the more offensive laws (to me) are those based on Islam and thus ones many are quick to defend. To be honest, I have no horse in that race. I simply want to know the reality of my rights there and to make decisions based on that. Know the Family Code. One small example--I can neither own nor inherit property in Algeria. You can bet that changed our plans to buy an apartment.

Be smart.

[Sinergy 3]

Bottomline is to enjoy life all you can. My first trip to the Philippines was to meet a lady I met online. After 2 weeks I discovered she was a complete scammer!

She was a lot younger than me and beautiful with a tight hard body. I had a GREAT time with her and she was worth EVERY penny I spent on her.

Bottomline is you older women with a younger trim man enjoy him all you can while it last. Who knows it may last a long time.

If not get as much as you can before he gets his GC!!

Take a break and then go get another!

Thats a bit rude....and ignorant. My husband is 8 yrs younger than i am, and i had a daughter before i met him, and we have been together for 6 years. I know alot of women on VJ who are like me, and they are all still with their men. Your statement was just plain ignorant

[childress_london 3]

Bug - as you know, we are all different. You chose your husband because of his submissive qualities which coincide with your more dominant qualities. And as you've seen, these qualities are not necessarily ethnically specific. Some of us may be opposite. I love my husband for his dominant qualities, because (usually :-P) I have more submissive qualities in a relationship. His ability to take charge of a situation and take care of me. The way he wants to spoil me and treat me as his princess. I love all of these things about my man. (Plus his beautiful dark looks don't hurt either) I think this has more to do with his culture than with religion. He is not religious at all despite being raised Muslim. I am a Christian. Even in the Christian faith, the husband is supposed to be over the wife. The husband is supposed to love the wife as his own body. Etc. However, in the U.S. women don't like to accept that. ;-) Many American Christian women will assert that their relationships are equal and their husbands are not in charge. So, like I said, I think it's more cultural. Even within different Muslim countries, you will find different culture and way of doing things. Some MENA men like the western culture/ways better, just as some American women might respect the MENA ways/culture. So, just as we say not all MENA men are alike, not all American women are alike. Not all of us are staunch feminists who insist that we must dominate over the man instead of vice versa so that we feel empowered.

However, don't get me wrong. I am all for equal rights in the work place as well as in the law. I was in the Navy, where at the time women were still more of a curiosity and not as common as you see now. I'm a tough, independent little cookie. ;-) And if any man were abusive, I don't care what country he was from, he would definitely wish he did not exist by the time I got finished with him.

I will share with all of you that I work for the police department and I can tell you that around 8PM every night, the calls start rolling in about men beating up on their wives. It happens every night, 7 days a week. Think about it. Every day there are American women being abused by their American husbands. EVERY DAY. And I'm sure it is even more than what I see at work, because many women will not call the police. They suffer in silence. It's easy to think from where you sit that this is not going on in the numbers it is actually happening, because you don't see it. If it's not in the newspaper or it doesn't happen to a neighbor or someone you know, you don't know it exists. So I'm telling you, it exists in greater numbers than you may think in AMERICA. I think it's just more politicized in the media when it involves the Middle East, because Americans like to read about the "evil countries" and their "evil ways". :-P I hate the media.

But I LOVE my MENA husband. He's the greatest thing since sliced bread.

~Pandora

[Chica Yeyé 41]

Bottomline is to enjoy life all you can. My first trip to the Philippines was to meet a lady I met online. After 2 weeks I discovered she was a complete scammer!

She was a lot younger than me and beautiful with a tight hard body. I had a GREAT time with her and she was worth EVERY penny I spent on her.

Bottomline is you older women with a younger trim man enjoy him all you can while it last. Who knows it may last a long time.

If not get as much as you can before he gets his GC!!

Take a break and then go get another!

Thats a bit rude....and ignorant. My husband is 8 yrs younger than i am, and i had a daughter before i met him, and we have been together for 6 years. I know alot of women on VJ who are like me, and they are all still with their men. Your statement was just plain ignorant

Indeed. Ignorant and offensive. But then again, what do you expect from someone who talks about women in terms of their "tight bodies"?

[Staashi 371]

Bottomline is to enjoy life all you can. My first trip to the Philippines was to meet a lady I met online. After 2 weeks I discovered she was a complete scammer!

She was a lot younger than me and beautiful with a tight hard body. I had a GREAT time with her and she was worth EVERY penny I spent on her.

Bottomline is you older women with a younger trim man enjoy him all you can while it last. Who knows it may last a long time.

If not get as much as you can before he gets his GC!!

Take a break and then go get another!

Thats a bit rude....and ignorant. My husband is 8 yrs younger than i am, and i had a daughter before i met him, and we have been together for 6 years. I know alot of women on VJ who are like me, and they are all still with their men. Your statement was just plain ignorant

Indeed. Ignorant and offensive. But then again, what do you expect from someone who talks about women in terms of their "tight bodies"?

Sister, I was thinking the exact same thing.

[childress_london 3]

I know we all want to defend our chosen partners--as we should. But I think that in the urge to defend we often overlook some real truths. You can take the attitude that you will ride this train while it lasts and pick yourself up should it have been a rouse. BUT, if children are involved or if you move to his country, you need to consider some factors other than your ability to pick yourself up and dust yourself off. You have to be realistic about your rights and those of your children. You can quote the Quran and describe your doting spouse, but the truth is that your rights in many Muslim countries are not equal, not as a woman and not as a foreigner, to your rights here.

I never understand why people here get so riled up about Not Without My Daughter. Granted I have not seen it in a very long time (saw it once in the theater when it came out), but the point that you, as an American mother in your husband's country, will not have the same rights over your child as you do here is a pretty important thing to know before you decide to take your child abroad. Maybe it is the Political Scientist in me, but what I remember from that movie is not scary abusive Muslim men, but the international political morass of custody laws. Yes, American men sometimes kidnap children and yes American men can be abusive. But you have MANY more legal rights here in those situations than you will if your MENA husband or your children return to his home country. Different point entirely.

I have no children and still researched like crazy before we moved to Algeria to know not only what my rights were under the law, but also how that law was or was not enforced and what kind of recourse I had. Most of this I could not know until we got there. It has nothing to do with how kind my husband is or the faith I have in our marriage. It has to do with the laws of his country. Yes, many of the more offensive laws (to me) are those based on Islam and thus ones many are quick to defend. To be honest, I have no horse in that race. I simply want to know the reality of my rights there and to make decisions based on that. Know the Family Code. One small example--I can neither own nor inherit property in Algeria. You can bet that changed our plans to buy an apartment.

Be smart.

Yes, I agree. I would be scared to death to live as a woman in Iran. Especially if we had children. Not because I would be afraid of my husband being abusive, but because even his hands would be tied in many cases because of the law. Many of these countries are oppressive to the people and especially towards women. In any case, I have no intention of ever living in Iran. People DO tend to miss the point of "Not Without My Daughter." Why do they focus on the abusive husband (which happens everywhere) and not on the ridiculous laws of that country, and also the wonderful spirit and tenacity that the American woman displayed. You can't keep an American woman down!

[Sinergy 3]

Bottomline is to enjoy life all you can. My first trip to the Philippines was to meet a lady I met online. After 2 weeks I discovered she was a complete scammer!

She was a lot younger than me and beautiful with a tight hard body. I had a GREAT time with her and she was worth EVERY penny I spent on her.

Bottomline is you older women with a younger trim man enjoy him all you can while it last. Who knows it may last a long time.

If not get as much as you can before he gets his GC!!

Take a break and then go get another!

Thats a bit rude....and ignorant. My husband is 8 yrs younger than i am, and i had a daughter before i met him, and we have been together for 6 years. I know alot of women on VJ who are like me, and they are all still with their men. Your statement was just plain ignorant

Indeed. Ignorant and offensive. But then again, what do you expect from someone who talks about women in terms of their "tight bodies"?

True true

[Staashi 371]

I will share with all of you that I work for the police department and I can tell you that around 8PM every night, the calls start rolling in about men beating up on their wives. It happens every night, 7 days a week. Think about it. Every day there are American women being abused by their American husbands. EVERY DAY. And I'm sure it is even more than what I see at work, because many women will not call the police. They suffer in silence. It's easy to think from where you sit that this is not going on in the numbers it is actually happening, because you don't see it. If it's not in the newspaper or it doesn't happen to a neighbor or someone you know, you don't know it exists. So I'm telling you, it exists in greater numbers than you may think in AMERICA. I think it's just more politicized in the media when it involves the Middle East, because Americans like to read about the "evil countries" and their "evil ways". :-P I hate the media.

But I LOVE my MENA husband. He's the greatest thing since sliced bread.

~Pandora

P, I used to live on Treasure Island beach and our biggest crime was domestic violence. I used to hear my drunk neighbors who lived upstairs beat up on each other almost every night. I could especially tell when he would drop kick her in the bedroom. I used to call the police all the time, but she was an idiot and let him beat on her continually - and they weren't even married. But, for the record, domestic violence happens in MENA too. It just isn't really discussed and if the areas are like most I've witnessed in other countries - police help isn't always too quick to respond, nor even too concerned with a domestic violence call. The woman just accepts what happened to her, throws on her hijab and abaya and conceals any black eyes. Moreover, how often does one woman's family say to her, "you must have done something to deserve it."

[Sinergy 3]

I will share with all of you that I work for the police department and I can tell you that around 8PM every night, the calls start rolling in about men beating up on their wives. It happens every night, 7 days a week. Think about it. Every day there are American women being abused by their American husbands. EVERY DAY. And I'm sure it is even more than what I see at work, because many women will not call the police. They suffer in silence. It's easy to think from where you sit that this is not going on in the numbers it is actually happening, because you don't see it. If it's not in the newspaper or it doesn't happen to a neighbor or someone you know, you don't know it exists. So I'm telling you, it exists in greater numbers than you may think in AMERICA. I think it's just more politicized in the media when it involves the Middle East, because Americans like to read about the "evil countries" and their "evil ways". :-P I hate the media.

But I LOVE my MENA husband. He's the greatest thing since sliced bread.

~Pandora

P, I used to live on Treasure Island beach and our biggest crime was domestic violence. I used to hear my drunk neighbors who lived upstairs beat up on each other almost every night. I could especially tell when he would drop kick her in the bedroom. I used to call the police all the time, but she was an idiot and let him beat on her continually - and they weren't even married. But, for the record, domestic violence happens in MENA too. It just isn't really discussed and if the areas are like most I've witnessed in other countries - police help isn't always too quick to respond, nor even too concerned with a domestic violence call. The woman just accepts what happened to her, throws on her hijab and abaya and conceals any black eyes. Moreover, how often does one woman's family say to her, "you must have done something to deserve it."

Ive known of 2...one was an american woman and a MENA man, he beat her constantly...and the other was a MENA woman married to a MENA man, same thing.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Personally, I'm always wary of Arabs marrying non-Arabs. No matter what nationality or religion an Arab is, we are among the most ethno-centric populations on earth. Over the decades I've been paying attention, online and off, it's not a surprise to me that so many, I would say most, marriages between Arabs and non-Arabs fail. Culturally speaking, we tend to be walking contradictions with one foot in modernity and one in tradition, doing a precarious balancing act. An Arab Muslim and an Arab Christian have a better chance of success in a mixed marriage than do an Arab and a non-Arab, imo, because, overall, there is less of a cultural divide.

As far as warnings go, people will do as they please. I will admit to having a close Moroccan relative who is using a French woman. She was unaware of his lies at first - he is still married to his second wife, has other gf's, too - but even after the French govenment informed her that their "marriage" in Morocco wasn't valid because he is not divorced, she STILL pulled some manipulation to get him a visa, brought him to France where he continues to cheat on her and use her, but, there's no doub that he does so with her permission.

I've seen big, fat, red flags in these types of unions going back to the 1960's, and I've seen the lengths many women will go thru to avoid having to acknowledge them until their house of cards comes to a sad and sorry crashing end. Coupled with the fact that no one really knows wo will make it and who will not, there is little you can do other than warn and then back off.

I often wonder, if we made a list of MENA VJs whose marriages work in the long term and whose have failed due to cultural issues or gc scams, wich list would be longer?

[Y's_habibitk 2]

I often wonder, if we made a list of MENA VJs whose marriages work in the long term and whose have failed due to cultural issues or gc scams, wich list would be longer?

I have wondered the same thing for as long as I have been here. The problem is that many wont admit or even be aware of it being a cultural issue, or the fact that the expectations were unrealistic or just were not met and the relationship failed. or who knows what else for that matter. ??

It's easier to say/swallow and accept that it was what they thought all along in the back of their minds.

I dont mean anything hurtful with my last sentence, I just mean that if you have doubts and continue on thinking, oh well...i'll enjoy this while it lasts.

[LaL 418]

I just mean that if you have doubts and continue on thinking, oh well...i'll enjoy this while it lasts.

I find this to be a sad fact many subscribe to.

Edited January 5, 2009 by LaL

[morocco4ever 63]

Bottomline is to enjoy life all you can. My first trip to the Philippines was to meet a lady I met online. After 2 weeks I discovered she was a complete scammer!

She was a lot younger than me and beautiful with a tight hard body. I had a GREAT time with her and she was worth EVERY penny I spent on her.

Bottomline is you older women with a younger trim man enjoy him all you can while it last. Who knows it may last a long time.

If not get as much as you can before he gets his GC!!

Take a break and then go get another!

Thats a bit rude....and ignorant. My husband is 8 yrs younger than i am, and i had a daughter before i met him, and we have been together for 6 years. I know alot of women on VJ who are like me, and they are all still with their men. Your statement was just plain ignorant

Indeed. Ignorant and offensive. But then again, what do you expect from someone who talks about women in terms of their "tight bodies"?

Well I have a tight body too. I doubt the skin could stretch any further.

[Nothing1234 2]

Bottomline is to enjoy life all you can. My first trip to the Philippines was to meet a lady I met online. After 2 weeks I discovered she was a complete scammer!

She was a lot younger than me and beautiful with a tight hard body. I had a GREAT time with her and she was worth EVERY penny I spent on her.

Bottomline is you older women with a younger trim man enjoy him all you can while it last. Who knows it may last a long time.

If not get as much as you can before he gets his GC!!

Take a break and then go get another!

Thats a bit rude....and ignorant. My husband is 8 yrs younger than i am, and i had a daughter before i met him, and we have been together for 6 years. I know alot of women on VJ who are like me, and they are all still with their men. Your statement was just plain ignorant

Indeed. Ignorant and offensive. But then again, what do you expect from someone who talks about women in terms of their "tight bodies"?

Well I have a tight body too. I doubt the skin could stretch any further.

Well when you put it in that perspective...I love having a firm body too!