green card marriages, ladies beware

[morocco4ever 63]

I appreciate the honest responses. Coming from the standpoint of knowing Muslim religion simply by movies like "not without my daughter" (scary), It may be a movie based on a factual story, but that could have been any culture or any religion. Men in the US have beaten their wives and kidnapped their children as well. It is not an Islamic trait, but an individual trait. of course my first thought is: WHY????? What made you choose Muslim as your religion? I have no issues with this, I, myself, turned Buddhist after being raised traditional Christian. I do know there is a lot to be learned about religion...not just what you were "born into". What I am against, however, (and I realize that men of ALL religions can be guilty of this) is VIOLENCE of any kind toward females.I agree Am I wrong that the Muslim religion favors the MAN and gives him rights to do what he wishes with women? Yes, you are wrong. My husband and I are equals in the household decisions, and he does not rule me. My opinion is welcomed, as are his, and we decide things as a couple. Again this is a personality trait, and could be found in any religion..If this statement is correct (I may be wrong, that is why I am here asking) then why would U.S. women ever support this? I don't either, and I wouldn't be married to him if this was his beliefs.I am probably coming from a totally different viewpoint, having chosen the man I did based on his "submissive" tendencies and in my own wanting to LEAD the relationship. Nothing wrong with that, this is decided between a man and a woman, and lets just say my hubby actually prefers it when I take the lead in the most part. I know I am the exception rather than the norm in women wanting this kind of relationship, but part of my reasons for liking this kind of man is because I am very against men putting women second or thinking they have any right to look down on a woman or abuse a woman. My husband has never looked down on me. You would be surprised at how much he pampers me. He is not the stereotypical MENA man, and I am sure there are plenty here that will say the same.Thanks and all my love to the women...

Bug

My notes are above in red. But I do thank you for your honest questions and sincere desire to learn the truth rather than automatically assuming that the stereotyping is correct.

[LilLoveBug 0]

I appreciate the honest responses. Coming from the standpoint of knowing Muslim religion simply by movies like "not without my daughter" (scary), It may be a movie based on a factual story, but that could have been any culture or any religion. Men in the US have beaten their wives and kidnapped their children as well. It is not an Islamic trait, but an individual trait. of course my first thought is: WHY????? What made you choose Muslim as your religion? I have no issues with this, I, myself, turned Buddhist after being raised traditional Christian. I do know there is a lot to be learned about religion...not just what you were "born into". What I am against, however, (and I realize that men of ALL religions can be guilty of this) is VIOLENCE of any kind toward females.I agree Am I wrong that the Muslim religion favors the MAN and gives him rights to do what he wishes with women? Yes, you are wrong. My husband and I are equals in the household decisions, and he does not rule me. My opinion is welcomed, as are his, and we decide things as a couple. Again this is a personality trait, and could be found in any religion..If this statement is correct (I may be wrong, that is why I am here asking) then why would U.S. women ever support this? I don't either, and I wouldn't be married to him if this was his beliefs.I am probably coming from a totally different viewpoint, having chosen the man I did based on his "submissive" tendencies and in my own wanting to LEAD the relationship. Nothing wrong with that, this is decided between a man and a woman, and lets just say my hubby actually prefers it when I take the lead in the most part. I know I am the exception rather than the norm in women wanting this kind of relationship, but part of my reasons for liking this kind of man is because I am very against men putting women second or thinking they have any right to look down on a woman or abuse a woman. My husband has never looked down on me. You would be surprised at how much he pampers me. He is not the stereotypical MENA man, and I am sure there are plenty here that will say the same.Thanks and all my love to the women...

Bug

My notes are above in red. But I do thank you for your honest questions and sincere desire to learn the truth rather than automatically assuming that the stereotyping is correct.

Hi there, thanks for your post. In my lifetime, I have been blessed with being smacked upside the head with my prejudices, narrow ideas, and instant judgements enough times to KNOW that you must learn the truth as much as you can and not just draw upon old beliefs or things you have "heard". Can I tell you how many times I said I would NEVER want an Asian man because of how dominant they are in relationships, and here I am, head over heels in love with the most gentle, angelic man you could ever imagine...and hey, what else? ASIAN. Everyone is an individual. I also used to have prejudices against Iranian men and black men.... until what? I met an Iranian man who was so unbelievably refined and elegant, he put American men to shame. And a black guy saved my life. If that isn't "getting kicked in the teeth" with the truth, nothing is! I know enough not to judge - just like I get super duper angry at the CO's who say a good looking foreign guy with a "fat, old, unnatractive" American woman can't love her for real. EXCUSE ME?! Who are you to judge what people like and don't like??? How can you say "fat" is unnattractive or "old" is unnattractive or ANYONE is unnattractive?? Isn't this SUBJECTIVE?! Isn't how my eyes see beauty different than how your eyes see beauty??? Looks are the last thing to judge a relationship on and there are plenty of guys ONLY attracted to overweight women or older women or hairy women or....I myself have heard all the ####### about my guy...he isn't attractive because he is short. OK, and that was written in the "What is Attractive" Bible that we all must worship? Give me a break. Anyway, I am ranting. hihihi I do that. I would be off doing it in the "Asia" forum but there aren't many women there petitioning for men. Because, as you now all have learned, short asian guys are domineering and unnattrative. LOL

Bug

Edited January 5, 2009 by LilLoveBug

[~Jackie~ 30]

Three 'Magayrehs' came...all 3 divorced.

#1--Hani (likes to be called 'Steve') ---came in 2002--secured citizenship in July 07, divorced Marj in August and flew to Jordan to marry his betrothed in Sept 07. She just arrived to America last month on a K3.

#2---Mohammed (likes to be called 'Mike') came in 2002--secured citizenship in Oct 2008-- just told his wife Pat to move out they are divorcing. She is crushed as you can imagine.

#3---Mohammed (I affectionately call the EVIL ONE) came in 2004--secured 10 year card--when confronted about #1 and told 'if you do that to me I'll keeel you'--he packed and is living in Florida with a truck-driver chick. Citizenship in 2010 and will marry his betrothed in Jordan.

So, 3 up, 3 down and I'm supposed to not quetion the gc issue? Puh-leeze.

Bottom line, if it is real it will last and if it wasn't there is nothing you can do to stop that fast moving train. Enjoy what you have while you have it. And if it goes, it is Gods way of telling you, there is better for you. Don't take it personal. It wasn't you. It was the plan. Then stand up, dust yourself off and move on sista.

Jackie

Edited January 5, 2009 by just_Jackie

[Imua 0]

I appreciate the honest responses. Coming from the standpoint of knowing Muslim religion simply by movies like "not without my daughter" (scary), It may be a movie based on a factual story, but that could have been any culture or any religion. Men in the US have beaten their wives and kidnapped their children as well. It is not an Islamic trait, but an individual trait. of course my first thought is: WHY????? What made you choose Muslim as your religion? I have no issues with this, I, myself, turned Buddhist after being raised traditional Christian. I do know there is a lot to be learned about religion...not just what you were "born into". What I am against, however, (and I realize that men of ALL religions can be guilty of this) is VIOLENCE of any kind toward females.I agree Am I wrong that the Muslim religion favors the MAN and gives him rights to do what he wishes with women? Yes, you are wrong. My husband and I are equals in the household decisions, and he does not rule me. My opinion is welcomed, as are his, and we decide things as a couple. Again this is a personality trait, and could be found in any religion..If this statement is correct (I may be wrong, that is why I am here asking) then why would U.S. women ever support this? I don't either, and I wouldn't be married to him if this was his beliefs.I am probably coming from a totally different viewpoint, having chosen the man I did based on his "submissive" tendencies and in my own wanting to LEAD the relationship. Nothing wrong with that, this is decided between a man and a woman, and lets just say my hubby actually prefers it when I take the lead in the most part. I know I am the exception rather than the norm in women wanting this kind of relationship, but part of my reasons for liking this kind of man is because I am very against men putting women second or thinking they have any right to look down on a woman or abuse a woman. My husband has never looked down on me. You would be surprised at how much he pampers me. He is not the stereotypical MENA man, and I am sure there are plenty here that will say the same.Thanks and all my love to the women...

Bug

My notes are above in red. But I do thank you for your honest questions and sincere desire to learn the truth rather than automatically assuming that the stereotyping is correct.

Hi there, thanks for your post. In my lifetime, I have been blessed with being smacked upside the head with my prejudices, narrow ideas, and instant judgements enough times to KNOW that you must learn the truth as much as you can and not just draw upon old beliefs or things you have "heard". Can I tell you how many times I said I would NEVER want an Asian man because of how dominant they are in relationships, and here I am, head over heels in love with the most gentle, angelic man you could ever imagine...and hey, what else? ASIAN. Everyone is an individual. I also used to have prejudices against Iranian men and black men.... until what? I met an Iranian man who was so unbelievably refined and elegant, he put American men to shame. And a black guy saved my life. If that isn't "getting kicked in the teeth" with the truth, nothing is! I know enough not to judge - just like I get super duper angry at the CO's who say a good looking foreign guy with a "fat, old, unnatractive" American woman can't love her for real. EXCUSE ME?! Who are you to judge what people like and don't like??? How can you say "fat" is unnattractive or "old" is unnattractive or ANYONE is unnattractive?? Isn't this SUBJECTIVE?! Isn't how my eyes see beauty different than how your eyes see beauty??? Looks are the last thing to judge a relationship on and there are plenty of guys ONLY attracted to overweight women or older women or hairy women or....I myself have heard all the ####### about my guy...he isn't attractive because he is short. OK, and that was written in the "What is Attractive" Bible that we all must worship? Give me a break. Anyway, I am ranting. hihihi I do that. I would be off doing it in the "Asia" forum but there aren't many women there petitioning for men. Because, as you now all have learned, short asian guys are domineering and unnattrative. LOL

Bug

Preach, sister, preach!!!

As a fellow white American married to a sweet, gentle, younger, short Asian guy who is everything I always wanted, I agree 100% with what you wrote. I just hope the CO will see our relationship your way. The looks/age thing also gets me very angry too - maybe I am not the most attractive woman on the planet but I do have fair skin which in my experience some desi guys go wild for, so maybe he is attracted to that and doesn't notice the other stuff??? LOL...still looks are such a trivial thing - any guy worth loving knows that in the long run love, loyalty and all those inner traits are what keep a relationship going.

[UmmSqueakster 54]

Whenever I'm confronted with "Not Without My Daughter," I like to point to the FBI's Parental Kidnapping Wanted Page. Yup, there are some MENA men on there, but also Mexicans, Taiwanese, Japanese, Americans, Fillipinas, etc etc etc.

As for Islam, what is odd to the modern american is that there tend to be suggestions as to what roll each gender takes in interacting with each other. Some people adhere more strictly to the gender rolls, where as others use them more as a general suggestion.

[Staashi 371]

Three 'Magayrehs' came...all 3 divorced.

#1--Hani (likes to be called 'Steve') ---came in 2002--secured citizenship in July 07, divorced Marj in August and flew to Jordan to marry his betrothed in Sept 07. She just arrived to America last month on a K3.

#2---Mohammed (likes to be called 'Mike') came in 2002--secured citizenship in Oct 2008-- just told his wife Pat to move out they are divorcing. She is crushed as you can imagine.

#3---Mohammed (I affectionately call the EVIL ONE) came in 2004--secured 10 year card--when confronted about #1 and told 'if you do that to me I'll keeel you'--he packed and is living in Florida with a truck-driver chick. Citizenship in 2010 and will marry his betrothed in Jordan.

So, 3 up, 3 down and I'm supposed to not quetion the gc issue? Puh-leeze.

Bottom line, if it is real it will last and if it wasn't there is nothing you can do to stop that fast moving train. Enjoy what you have while you have it. And if it goes, it is Gods way of telling you, there is better for you. Don't take it personal. It wasn't you. It was the plan. Then stand up, dust yourself off and move on sista.

Jackie

Amen, Jackie It happens all the time. When I lived in Los Angeles, some of my best guy friends were MENA guys - students who came over 15 - 20 years before 9-11 (when MENA people were truly welcomed in the US). I cannot tell you how many marriage proposals I received so that they could stay in the country. I was offered tons of money and it was always mentioned that it would be a business transaction - and that it would all be over as soon as he had his greencard. I swear, one of my friends was a student from UAE - Dubai, actually. His father was so unbelievably wealthy. He said, "Stacie, I'll give you whatever you want." If I had said, "I want 100K for each year, a fly-azz apartment, and a Porsche", I could have had it. Maybe I was a young, blonde idiot for not taking that offer. But, I always knew it was just for papers.

Now that I'm older, and I know that people are emotionally involved in all of this, it turns the tables dramatically. Women invest their whole heart and soul into these relationships believing that everything is a fairytale. And it very well is for many. But, let's not be oblivious that there are some men, as Kat put one day, "flinging themselves into the Mediterranean for a better life." So, take all of this with a great big grain of salt. Some people will enjoy the ride for what it is, others will be blindsided when the ride is over. And I would like to say one thing, everyone on here says that USC men will leave you too. Of course they will, and so will USC women, but you normally didn't have to go to hell and back to be in that relationship with the USC; justify your relationship to every CO, family and friend; throw down thousands of dollars on travel, immigration forms, and documents that give them the right to be in the US forever!; travel to places on the other side of the world and give up years of your life just to be with him. I'm not saying that it isn't all worth it - if you're happy, then dammit, it is worth it. But, if you're dumped by your spouse so that he could go home and marry some 18-20 year old halal virgin and have kids with her because you were just the 5-year plan wife, well I'd probably be pretty f'ing pissed. But that's just me.

Edited January 5, 2009 by Staashi

[desert_fox 32]

I appreciate the honest responses. Coming from the standpoint of knowing Muslim religion simply by movies like "not without my daughter" (scary), It may be a movie based on a factual story, but that could have been any culture or any religion. Men in the US have beaten their wives and kidnapped their children as well. It is not an Islamic trait, but an individual trait. of course my first thought is: WHY????? Bug

My notes are above in red. But I do thank you for your honest questions and sincere desire to learn the truth rather than automatically assuming that the stereotyping is correct.

The difference being that the courts in MENA countries wont help you and the state department is helpless. at least in Western countries, you can take up the matter on custody, etc. in the courts.

[Staashi 371]

I would also just like to put out one other "point to ponder" - you know how here in the US, Americans have a way of complaining all the time about how people from Mexico and Central America are crossing the border illegally and that illegal immigration is just terrible. And how many people say, oh well they're just coming for a better life. Well, that is how the Europeans feel about MENA. Illegal immigration is just as huge of an issue in Mediterranean countries - especially Spain. Spain is to the Moroccans like Florida is to the Cubans - just cross the Strait of Gibraltar and dammit, you're in! MENA folks - especially the men, come to Europe's borders and enter illegally all the time. Spain actually has so many illegal immigrants that they are now paying them to go home - flight and stipend! So, chew on this - to be able to enter a country, such as the USA, which is prosperous (well, it used to be), and do it legally - OMG - what an opportunity!

[sara..... 371]

Three 'Magayrehs' came...all 3 divorced.

#1--Hani (likes to be called 'Steve') ---came in 2002--secured citizenship in July 07, divorced Marj in August and flew to Jordan to marry his betrothed in Sept 07. She just arrived to America last month on a K3.

#2---Mohammed (likes to be called 'Mike') came in 2002--secured citizenship in Oct 2008-- just told his wife Pat to move out they are divorcing. She is crushed as you can imagine.

#3---Mohammed (I affectionately call the EVIL ONE) came in 2004--secured 10 year card--when confronted about #1 and told 'if you do that to me I'll keeel you'--he packed and is living in Florida with a truck-driver chick. Citizenship in 2010 and will marry his betrothed in Jordan.

So, 3 up, 3 down and I'm supposed to not quetion the gc issue? Puh-leeze.

Bottom line, if it is real it will last and if it wasn't there is nothing you can do to stop that fast moving train. Enjoy what you have while you have it. And if it goes, it is Gods way of telling you, there is better for you. Don't take it personal. It wasn't you. It was the plan. Then stand up, dust yourself off and move on sista.

Jackie

Amen, Jackie It happens all the time. When I lived in Los Angeles, some of my best guy friends were MENA guys - students who came over 15 - 20 years before 9-11 (when MENA people were truly welcomed in the US). I cannot tell you how many marriage proposals I received so that they could stay in the country. I was offered tons of money and it was always mentioned that it would be a business transaction - and that it would all be over as soon as he had his greencard. I swear, one of my friends was a student from UAE - Dubai, actually. His father was so unbelievably wealthy. He said, "Stacie, I'll give you whatever you want." If I had said, "I want 100K for each year, a fly-azz apartment, and a Porsche", I could have had it. Maybe I was a young, blonde idiot for not taking that offer. But, I always knew it was just for papers.

Now that I'm older, and I know that people are emotionally involved in all of this, it turns the tables dramatically. Women invest their whole heart and soul into these relationships believing that everything is a fairytale. And it very well is for many. But, let's not be oblivious that there are some men, as Kat put one day, "flinging themselves into the Mediterranean for a better life." So, take all of this with a great big grain of salt. Some people will enjoy the ride for what it is, others will be blindsided when the ride is over. And I would like to say one thing, everyone on here says that USC men will leave you too. Of course they will, and so will USC women, but you normally didn't have to go to hell and back to be in that relationship with the USC; justify your relationship to every CO, family and friend; throw down thousands of dollars on travel, immigration forms, and documents that give them the right to be in the US forever!; travel to places on the other side of the world and give up years of your life just to be with him. I'm not saying that it isn't all worth it - if you're happy, then dammit, it is worth it. But, if you're dumped by your spouse so that he could go home and marry some 18-20 year old halal virgin and have kids with her because you were just the 5-year plan wife, well I'd probably be pretty f'ing pissed. But that's just me.

i hope i dont get fried over this but here goes, its not just the women that are older that worry about being used for gc.

im 22 in feb and one of those as u stated "halal virgin", when we started this journey i was just about 18, and filed after i was 20, and i did worry about being used for a gc prolly just as much as any other women on here. one because of my age when i first started looking for my life partner i was afraid of not being taken seriously and just a road for someone to use to come to the usa one what some of you call the five year plan.

finally in the end when i made my choice i promised myself that if this is what was his intent i would extract my pound of flesh over and over and over again, why? well many will disagree with me but the fact is for a muslim girl if she is divorced and with children its very hard to find a spouse that is good, honest and caring, most muslim men, not all so plz dont misunderstand me but most do not want to raise another mans children. So making this choice that i made was very heart felt and very difficult, but on the flip side of that i figured if i married an american man i stood the same chances of him leaving me because of the fact that i practice islam as if my next breath could be my last, many of the usa muslim men do not seem to be that dedicated to islam.

anyways i wrote this just so that you could understand it is not just the older women that have to worry about this its also some of us younger ones that worried about it as well.

sara

[Staashi 371]

Three 'Magayrehs' came...all 3 divorced.

#1--Hani (likes to be called 'Steve') ---came in 2002--secured citizenship in July 07, divorced Marj in August and flew to Jordan to marry his betrothed in Sept 07. She just arrived to America last month on a K3.

#2---Mohammed (likes to be called 'Mike') came in 2002--secured citizenship in Oct 2008-- just told his wife Pat to move out they are divorcing. She is crushed as you can imagine.

#3---Mohammed (I affectionately call the EVIL ONE) came in 2004--secured 10 year card--when confronted about #1 and told 'if you do that to me I'll keeel you'--he packed and is living in Florida with a truck-driver chick. Citizenship in 2010 and will marry his betrothed in Jordan.

So, 3 up, 3 down and I'm supposed to not quetion the gc issue? Puh-leeze.

Bottom line, if it is real it will last and if it wasn't there is nothing you can do to stop that fast moving train. Enjoy what you have while you have it. And if it goes, it is Gods way of telling you, there is better for you. Don't take it personal. It wasn't you. It was the plan. Then stand up, dust yourself off and move on sista.

Jackie

Amen, Jackie It happens all the time. When I lived in Los Angeles, some of my best guy friends were MENA guys - students who came over 15 - 20 years before 9-11 (when MENA people were truly welcomed in the US). I cannot tell you how many marriage proposals I received so that they could stay in the country. I was offered tons of money and it was always mentioned that it would be a business transaction - and that it would all be over as soon as he had his greencard. I swear, one of my friends was a student from UAE - Dubai, actually. His father was so unbelievably wealthy. He said, "Stacie, I'll give you whatever you want." If I had said, "I want 100K for each year, a fly-azz apartment, and a Porsche", I could have had it. Maybe I was a young, blonde idiot for not taking that offer. But, I always knew it was just for papers.

Now that I'm older, and I know that people are emotionally involved in all of this, it turns the tables dramatically. Women invest their whole heart and soul into these relationships believing that everything is a fairytale. And it very well is for many. But, let's not be oblivious that there are some men, as Kat put one day, "flinging themselves into the Mediterranean for a better life." So, take all of this with a great big grain of salt. Some people will enjoy the ride for what it is, others will be blindsided when the ride is over. And I would like to say one thing, everyone on here says that USC men will leave you too. Of course they will, and so will USC women, but you normally didn't have to go to hell and back to be in that relationship with the USC; justify your relationship to every CO, family and friend; throw down thousands of dollars on travel, immigration forms, and documents that give them the right to be in the US forever!; travel to places on the other side of the world and give up years of your life just to be with him. I'm not saying that it isn't all worth it - if you're happy, then dammit, it is worth it. But, if you're dumped by your spouse so that he could go home and marry some 18-20 year old halal virgin and have kids with her because you were just the 5-year plan wife, well I'd probably be pretty f'ing pissed. But that's just me.

i hope i dont get fried over this but here goes, its not just the women that are older that worry about being used for gc.

im 22 in feb and one of those as u stated "halal virgin", when we started this journey i was just about 18, and filed after i was 20, and i did worry about being used for a gc prolly just as much as any other women on here. one because of my age when i first started looking for my life partner i was afraid of not being taken seriously and just a road for someone to use to come to the usa one what some of you call the five year plan.

finally in the end when i made my choice i promised myself that if this is what was his intent i would extract my pound of flesh over and over and over again, why? well many will disagree with me but the fact is for a muslim girl if she is divorced and with children its very hard to find a spouse that is good, honest and caring, most muslim men, not all so plz dont misunderstand me but most do not want to raise another mans children. So making this choice that i made was very heart felt and very difficult, but on the flip side of that i figured if i married an american man i stood the same chances of him leaving me because of the fact that i practice islam as if my next breath could be my last, many of the usa muslim men do not seem to be that dedicated to islam.

anyways i wrote this just so that you could understand it is not just the older women that have to worry about this its also some of us younger ones that worried about it as well.

sara

Sara, thank you for sharing your point of view.

[~Jackie~ 30]

Yes, thank you. The more input the better we can understand each other.

jJ

[Ihavequestions 419]

The GC/Citizenship is not the only allure here, folks. There's the possibility of travelling anywhere outside of the Arab nations IF a man is married, thus has a tie to his home country, ensuring his return after his "visit" is over. This possibility simply wasn't there without a wife to begin with, but an American wife is an additional bonus.

[SaadBell 0]

Staashi -

I am with you on this one, that is why I say if you want to marry me it will be on your $$$$$$$$$, not mine, I have none so that helps. It makes me so angry when these losers let the women spend all their hard earned money to marry them and than turn around and take off. I have been fooled and used and the experiences have really changed my outlook on life, sadly, but I still hope for and wish for the happy ever after, but the reality is something we must not let ourselves forget, unless you got ton's of money, than hey I would get me a young one every few years. Just kidding, but for $100,000 to marry someone for two years, you bet I would think about that one. Losers come from all over the world, it is one thing all countries have in common, USERS. America has plenty of them, but Staashi is right you don't spend all these hours and money worrying about if they will get a visa in to the country, and that has to hurt, I know. Sometimes revenge is a nice day dream, what I would do if I could get my hands one some of these losers. Dinner timeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[Ban Hammer 13,342]

[Tunisia216 2]

Bottom line, if it is real it will last and if it wasn't there is nothing you can do to stop that fast moving train. Enjoy what you have while you have it. And if it goes, it is Gods way of telling you, there is better for you. Don't take it personal. It wasn't you. It was the plan. Then stand up, dust yourself off and move on sista.

Jackie

:thumbs: I've never seen it said better. ITA Jaxs and you took the words RIGHT out of my mouth! Smart cookie I think this is how you have to approach EVERYTHING in life.