working without EAD?

[Rocky_nBullwinkle 6]

Hi Sonomocountygal,

I was exactly where you are now in my thinking about a year ago or so on this topic. I just couldn't understand how there could be any question and debate over what appeared to me as completely unambiguous documentation.

That was until I found out that there is more to the story..and unless you happen to know about it, there is no way to have known of the addiitonal superceding documentaiton. I always thought that the US TAX CODE needed simplification....but I've come to realize that the IRS "ain't got nothin'" on the USCIS!

Take a good luck through this thread, it may be enlightening.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...amp;pid=1709354

Warm Regards,

Samby

Yep. Thanks for the link. I can tell this arguement has been going on long before I got here. And as long as the NILC has not come to a conclusion on the subject, I am sure it will continue!

On the IRS thing, I have been auditted, and gone to appeal with an load of cites under my arm. They thanked me for my thoroughness, told me I won the arguement, but I still ending up having to pay something.

[rebeccajo 14]

sonoma -

Note it says the income from the intending immigrant that can be shown on the I864 is income from lawful employment. The footnotes reinforce that language.

As such I think it's on topic.

My thoughts exactly. But I also noted that "unauthorized employment is not, admittedly, always a bar to adjustment of status." That is what is "interesting." This is bureaucrat speak for, "We understand the realities you may encounter in the field."

Maybe the Government really has a soul!

Wouldn't that be lovely!

Okay, from this thread and the other what I gather (skipping all the legal speak) - is

1. K-1 are not eligible to work withOUT the EAD - temp or otherwise

2. K-1 holders will not be deported for working while AOS is pending? as the NOA for the EAD is considered a pending type of doc?

3. Interviewers will allow "unauthorized employment" income from said immigrants IF the primary sponser does not meet the income requirements?

Jump thru this hoop - duck that one and cover your a$$ - why don't they just issue a temp work permit with the POE check? One that will last until GC? Would be a lot easier!

1. That is correct.

2. The NOA for the EAD is just that - a receipt. I did make the statement that a K1 probably wouldn't be deported in the event of a raid if they were illegally working. I hope I worded it clearly but if I didn't this is what I meant to say - if the K1 immigrant were illegally working and had not yet filed for adjustment, I believe they would be given the opportunity to file for that adjustment rather than suffer a deportation. That opportunity, unfortunately, might first involve and arrest and detention. I think the opportunity to adjust would be granted SOLELY because they were married to a USC and the INA allows for immigrants who have illegally worked an opportunity to file. Let me add that I am sure of NONE of this. But...if we recall the story posted by Valsu regarding his wife's recent detention, supposedly she is being given the opportunity to file. Unfortunately (according to Valsu) she's also being held.

3. No. I don't believe an adjudicator will allow the illegal income of the immigrant to count. It's clearly in the Regs that they cannot do so.

Insofar as issuing a work document at POE - why? Like I've said a hundred times over, I understand that some people really are pressed for money and the household could use the income. However, I also contend that this journey of marriage combined with the adjustments of the alien to life in America is not the usual course of life. As such we need to plan for that 'different' course. I guess I don't get why someone moving over here wouldn't look forward to a few months of down time in order to acclimate. I know my husband sure needed it.

Edited January 5, 2009 by rebeccajo

[LorriQ 0]

sonoma -

Note it says the income from the intending immigrant that can be shown on the I864 is income from lawful employment. The footnotes reinforce that language.

As such I think it's on topic.

My thoughts exactly. But I also noted that "unauthorized employment is not, admittedly, always a bar to adjustment of status." That is what is "interesting." This is bureaucrat speak for, "We understand the realities you may encounter in the field."

Maybe the Government really has a soul!

Wouldn't that be lovely!

Okay, from this thread and the other what I gather (skipping all the legal speak) - is

1. K-1 are not eligible to work withOUT the EAD - temp or otherwise

2. K-1 holders will not be deported for working while AOS is pending? as the NOA for the EAD is considered a pending type of doc?

3. Interviewers will allow "unauthorized employment" income from said immigrants IF the primary sponser does not meet the income requirements?

Jump thru this hoop - duck that one and cover your a$$ - why don't they just issue a temp work permit with the POE check? One that will last until GC? Would be a lot easier!

1. That is correct.

2. The NOA for the EAD is just that - a receipt. I did make the statement that a K1 probably wouldn't be deported in the event of a raid if they were illegally working. I hope I worded it clearly but if I didn't this is what I meant to say - if the K1 immigrant were illegally working and had not yet filed for adjustment, I believe they would be given the opportunity to file for that adjustment rather than suffer a deportation. That opportunity, unfortunately, might first involve and arrest and detention. I think the opportunity to adjust would be granted SOLELY because they were married to a USC and the INA allows for immigrants who have illegally worked an opportunity to file. Let me add that I am sure of NONE of this. But...if we recall the story posted by Valsu regarding his wife's recent detention, supposedly she is being given the opportunity to file. Unfortunately (according to Valsu) she's also being held.

3. No. I don't believe an adjudicator will allow the illegal income of the immigrant to count. It's clearly in the Regs that they cannot do so.

Insofar as issuing a work document at POE - why? Like I've said a hundred times over, I understand that some people really are pressed for money and the household could use the income. However, I also contend that this journey of marriage combined with the adjustments of the alien to life in America is not the usual course of life. As such we need to plan for that 'different' course. I guess I don't get why someone moving over here wouldn't look forward to a few months of down time in order to acclimate. I know my husband sure needed it.

Thanks!

And although I am looking forward to having him all to myself - I am more worried about him becoming bored while I am working if the EAD takes longer than "normal".

I was also wondering if I would get into trouble if I wrangled him into helping me - but it seems as long as I don't pay him (LOL) it will be okay! Currently running 2 seperate businesses - onsite bookkeeping (fills the lulls) and my decorative painting/murals (feast or famine!) and can always use extra hands with the painting!

I'll run this by my attorney - but I really appreciate the answers here - more details given!

[Rocky_nBullwinkle 6]

Hi Sonomocountygal,

Take a good luck through this thread, it may be enlightening.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...amp;pid=1709354

Warm Regards,

Samby

"Other aliens who are authorized to work in the United States without restrictions should also use this form to apply to USCIS for a document evidencing such authorization. " -- from the instructions for the new I-765, dated 10/15/08

I just finished reading this old thread, and yes, it was enlightening. What we keep coming back to is this, and then there it is, right there in the instructions, to taunt us! "If you can already work without restriction, we will give you the card to prove it!"

Later on it says, a K-1 Fiance(e) can ONLY apply for an EAD within the first 90 days of arrival at POE, or ONLY in conjuction with an application for adjustment of status.

[thepacific 0]

the penalty for getting caught working without government authorization: detention, deportation and a ban on re-entering the U.S.

i agree with all the advice posted above.

but can i just pose a question:

Why is the penalty so severe when it is obvious the immigrant is here legally and doing everything he or she is supposed to do to live here legally & pay taxes, etc... meanwhile, if you come here illegally, work for years illegally, all that gets forgiven if you marry a US citizen?

i'm just thinking about it b/c there was another thread in this forum this week where someone did just that, was here for years, working under-the-table, happened to fall in love, happened to get married, and all their illegal work activity is just forgiven?

i don't mean to vent, it just gets me mad.

hi i am from Morocco and i coming here by k1 visa and my case still pending

can we talk this is my msn manofjorf@hotmail.com

[Eli the Barrowboy 16]

Hello All, Hi again Rebecca,

Well we are stuck in EAD hell too and I thought I'd just pop up and say Hi and vent a little.

We declined to send my Mother-In-Law's previous tax returns with our AOS as she was acting as our co-sponsor. My wife is a full-time law student so we are down to no income at the moment, We're paying the $1k plus per semester for books and all car insurance/gas and food bills plus rent plus utilities plus cell phones etc from our savings. I entered on a K1 using self-sponsorship and the money that was to be our house deposit is fast dwindling. Luckily we had a lot of money raised from a house sale in Ireland - without that, life in the USA wouldn't have been possible.

The RFE (for something the Form I-864a says is optional) has really held us back and people who applied in mid-November are getting their EAD now.

In my case, and I think this will be widespread, I wonder how we are supposed to feel a part of US society when we can't be integrated fully, we can't fulfill our potential and contribute to the national kitty by paying taxes.

In effect, someone with a high skill set, 10 years in the workforce and a masters degree in IT is sitting at home feeling more and more useless each day. I have been offered a contract by HP paying more money than I ever made in Ireland and have to keep telling them that my EAD hasn't arrived. I worked each day since leaving college and hate hate hate this uselessness. Which in turn puts pressure on any relationship. Their offer will expire soon and then I'll resent the whole thing even more. BTW - I applied for the job back when I had my 90 day EAD.

I have called USCIS and explained the situation and to no avail. 'You have to wait your turn' they say, while processing the November filers. So, Rome burns while the USCIS fiddle. i could be bringing in a LOT of money in tax but they don't seem to need it - they'll just borrow it off China I guess.

Once I get the EAD Approval email I'll go back to HP and see if they can accept that. I hope it's any day now but the response to my service request last week stated it could be another 43 days or do as they have 90 days after you return a RFE to give a decision - which could be another RFE for all I know.

If I was in Government here's what I'd do. All K1/K3 get a 90 day EAD stamp on entry. Then once you get married go to your local USCIS office with your marriage certificate and you get your passport stamped with an extension to that EAD until your card comes.

But I'm not in Government. The wife will be some day though and at last there will be someone in government who will give a toss about us poor K1 filers.

Rant over.

R

[rebeccajo 14]

Hello R -

Sorry to hear about your situation. Usually it doesn't take USCIS 90 days to issue the EAD if the response to the RFE is satisfactory. That's boilderplate CYA language they've been using for years when they are queried about how long it will take to issue the document. Their written and internal policies state that they have 90 days to respond, but that's usually not the case.

I'm curious though why you comment that submitting the tax return of the household member is optional. There's a whole big section in the instructions about it.......................

Edited January 6, 2009 by rebeccajo

[Eli the Barrowboy 16]

I'm curious though why you comment that submitting the tax return of the household member is optional. There's a whole big section in the instructions about it.......................

Hi Rebecca,

I'm talking years 2 and 3 - the optional ones. And the person in question makes well over $150k per year. A quick call to the IRS would have saved them lots of time.

Any point in me trying to expediate this on account of having a job offer, wife full-time student, etc? Will I find them willing to listen?

R

PS Incidentally, the USCIS have promised the Ombudsman that they would operate on a 75 day EAD turn around from October 2008.

http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/cisomb_...endation_35.pdf

[rebeccajo 14]

I'm curious though why you comment that submitting the tax return of the household member is optional. There's a whole big section in the instructions about it.......................

Hi Rebecca,

I'm talking years 2 and 3 - the optional ones. And the person in question makes well over $150k per year. A quick call to the IRS would have saved them lots of time.

Any point in me trying to expediate this on account of having a job offer, wife full-time student, etc? Will I find them willing to listen?

R

PS Incidentally, the USCIS have promised the Ombudsman that they would operate on a 75 day EAD turn around from October 2008.

http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/cisomb_...endation_35.pdf

Is your MIL self-employed? They really shouldn't have asked for those additional years unless she is.

Re: the expedite. I'd just keep watching my touches. They're all just back from the Christmas holidays. You should get joy soon.

PS - December is "National Goof Off at Work Month" in the US - in case you didn't know........

[Eli the Barrowboy 16]

Is your MIL self-employed? They really shouldn't have asked for those additional years unless she is.

Re: the expedite. I'd just keep watching my touches. They're all just back from the Christmas holidays. You should get joy soon.

PS - December is "National Goof Off at Work Month" in the US - in case you didn't know........

She isn't but kinda is - she works as a contractor but pays tax at source. Anyway, maybe that caused the confusion cos I don't understand it.

Touches? What are touches!!! Lol.

I'm on a permanent goof off from work month Rebecca.

[Rocky_nBullwinkle 6]

I'm curious though why you comment that submitting the tax return of the household member is optional. There's a whole big section in the instructions about it.......................

Hi Rebecca,

I'm talking years 2 and 3 - the optional ones. And the person in question makes well over $150k per year. A quick call to the IRS would have saved them lots of time.

Any point in me trying to expediate this on account of having a job offer, wife full-time student, etc? Will I find them willing to listen?

R

PS Incidentally, the USCIS have promised the Ombudsman that they would operate on a 75 day EAD turn around from October 2008.

http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/cisomb_...endation_35.pdf

What is curious, and would explain why it is taking so long to process the EAD applications, is that it appears that the mere filing of an AOS application is insufficient to permit the issuance of the EAD card. It appears that "completeness" has replaced sufficiency. They send out the biometric appointments in a timely manner, so there can be no other reason why it is taking so long. Your case seems to support this.

My first impression was that the EAD was an interim document, that would permit the alien to work while his/her case is being processed. It appears that the case is processed, and merely awaiting a free appointment date, when they finally request the card be issued. Something well worth comment to the Ombudsman, should anyone wish to further pursue the matter.

Good luck.

[Eli the Barrowboy 16]

I think I will call the ombusdman ... my wife's congressman was no good ... "Call us when the 90 days after your RFE was received has passed ... blah blah blah".

Assylum seekers (and honestly I do feel for them) get EAD after 30 days and we have to wait 90? Why?

Starting to think this whole thing was a bad move ...

[rebeccajo 14]

I'm curious though why you comment that submitting the tax return of the household member is optional. There's a whole big section in the instructions about it.......................

Hi Rebecca,

I'm talking years 2 and 3 - the optional ones. And the person in question makes well over $150k per year. A quick call to the IRS would have saved them lots of time.

Any point in me trying to expediate this on account of having a job offer, wife full-time student, etc? Will I find them willing to listen?

R

PS Incidentally, the USCIS have promised the Ombudsman that they would operate on a 75 day EAD turn around from October 2008.

http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/cisomb_...endation_35.pdf

What is curious, and would explain why it is taking so long to process the EAD applications, is that it appears that the mere filing of an AOS application is insufficient to permit the issuance of the EAD card. It appears that "completeness" has replaced sufficiency. They send out the biometric appointments in a timely manner, so there can be no other reason why it is taking so long. Your case seems to support this.

My first impression was that the EAD was an interim document, that would permit the alien to work while his/her case is being processed. It appears that the case is processed, and merely awaiting a free appointment date, when they finally request the card be issued. Something well worth comment to the Ombudsman, should anyone wish to further pursue the matter.

Good luck.

IMO, "completeness" means all the necessary documents needed to make a decision are contained within the submitted file and "sufficiency" means the evidence shown within the documents support a decision of an approval - ie translation "the sponsor can show sufficient income to warrant approval of the affidavit".

At any rate, what happens when your AOS packet arrives at the District Office is that a clerk checks through the file to see if all the necessary documents have been included. This clerk is not the person who decides if the evidence contained in the documents is 'enough' to approve a greencard. If that clerk determines a document is missing, they issue an RFE. Anecdotally there has been a lot of unnecessary RFE's through the years for income tax information, which has always revealed that the person asking for the document isn't the person trained to "read" a tax return.

In this case, I'm thinking that if Eli's MIL filed a Schedule C in her tax return (as many private contractors do) that would have been what tipped the clerk to issue an RFE. If that is so, the would not have been an error on the clerk's part.

Edited January 7, 2009 by rebeccajo

[Rocky_nBullwinkle 6]

IMO, "completeness" means all the necessary documents needed to make a decision are contained within the submitted file and "sufficiency" means the evidence shown within the documents support a decision of an approval - ie translation "the sponsor can show sufficient income to warrant approval of the affidavit".

At any rate, what happens when your AOS packet arrives at the District Office is that a clerk checks through the file to see if all the necessary documents have been included. This clerk is not the person who decides if the evidence contained in the documents is 'enough' to approve a greencard. If that clerk determines a document is missing, they issue an RFE. Anecdotally there has been a lot of unnecessary RFE's through the years for income tax information, which has always revealed that the person asking for the document isn't the person trained to "read" a tax return.

In this case, I'm thinking that if Eli's MIL filed a Schedule C in her tax return (as many private contractors do) that would have been what tipped the clerk to issue an RFE. If that is so, the would not have been an error on the clerk's part.

By "sufficiency", I was saying there was enough "bulk" to constitute a bonafide AOS application. In other words, if any evidence is missing, is there still enough documentation to create a per se application? That would seem to be "sufficient" enough, based on how the EAD is advertised, to process the I-765. Apparently not. That was my point. If indeed it is a clerk that is making that determination, then any further "adjudication", besides the interview, seems more of a blessing, rather than a determination.

My main point is, that there is a point when the I-485 and I-765 become divorced. My arguement is that point should happen sooner in the process, than it currently seems to happen, to expedite the issuance of an EAD.

[Eli the Barrowboy 16]

I'm with ya sonomacountygal,

I think that if there is insufficient evidence for the AOS then by all means write out and get the applicant to send back the evidence. However, I think that the EAD should be separate from that in some way because we are really suffering in terms of finances. We were going to by a house early this year but as we are living off our deposit that's not going to happen for a while. I've been offered a job on which the income tax would be substantial so both myself and Uncle Sam are missing out.

And while you might say we are contributing to the local economy anyway by spending our savings here that's true, but the money came in without taxation from the UK and there is no sales tax in Oregon.

Incidentally, we sent in everything that they asked for in the AOS form - they needed the same info for years 2 and 3, not missing info for year 1. If this was a clerical error then it's proving to be a costly one. MIL was contracted to the pharmacy she managed (she since changed jobs) but was employed through an agency who paid her taxes at source and so was not self-employed as I first stated - sorry.

R