VISA DENIED 2ND TIME!!!

[chiquita 0]

Let's examine one other thing... what relationship does not have it's ulterior motives? Do you not want to be alone anymore? Do you want a good mother or father for your children? Do you consider potential for your own personal advancement via the support of your spouse? Do you marry because this person offers financial stability? Do you marry because this person just looks good with you? The list is endless and can appear quite shallow, but for any person to say that they have NO ulterior motives whatsoever entering into a relationships and/or a marriage is incorrect. It is human nature and perfectly normal to do so. Do ANY of these ulterior motives cancel out the possibility of love existing as well? Nope. People fall in love too. It happens every day. Go figure.

I don't really see the point of articulating the above statement. As NONE of the reasons listed above would be grounds to find a marriage fraudulent in the eyes of USCIS. No one said that "love" has to be involved. The only thing stipulated is that "immigration benefit" cannot be the sole motivator.

WHY THANK YOU!!! I AGREE!!

[desert_fox 32]

OK...no more help/advice from the FOX...you are all on your own now. Im sure that I will be missed.

Betcha that I can come back here and see that nothing has changed.

hint ------ Convince the Consulate (thru your SO), that you have a valid relationship....that will endure, and that you are not being victimized.

No need to thank me........Good luck to all.

FOXX!!!

[Together4ever 1]

I think the usefulness of this thread has pretty much worn itself out.

[chiquita 0]

let me tell ya, you piss me off! you must be a CO to say the things you say.

nice attitude!! paula offered sound advice that, frankly, anyone on this entire board could use when prepping for their interview. it's a shame that you can't keep emotions out of this and had to reply in such a derogatory fashion.

Let me tell ya ####### is wrong...she has no idea of what happens to a couple who are denied a visa.

I agree being PREPARED is the most important thing one can do. Since she has no experience with denials how on earth can she give advice? In her opinion...that is exactly it...hers.

Some of her advice is WRONG! (more on that later...)

I can't keep my emotions out of this because I want my husband here and there is NOT ONE REASON for him not to be here!!!!!!!!!!

So, like I said, she pisses me off and she sounds like a CO...(oooooo don't piss them off or you'll get denied!!!) That is a bunch of #######.

Paula is giving advice on other groups as well when she shouldn't. Not everthing works for everyone. That's so narrow minded. There are many many issues to consider.

I think that for one to dismiss advice, which appears on its face to be very wise counsel, is unreasonable. One should look at applying for a visa as one looks for applying for a job. There will be many factors involved in the consideration. I can't think of a greqt example at the moment, but with high fraud consulates, the bar has been raised. It just means that you are required to exceed their anticipations. As an example, if you knew that you lacked some experience that a job calls for, wouldn't you be prepared to address that proactively in an interview; wouldn't you try to stress something else that you bring to the table? To enter a job interview knowing that you are perhaps not presenting the same skills as someone else and then to be surprised at the outcome when you are not accepted, yet you do not do anything to level the playing field, is just not reasonable, in my opinion.

LISTEN, I GUESS I AM "IGNORANT" WHEN IT COMES TO IMMIGRATION. I HAVE LEARNED A LOT IN THIS "PROCESS" UNWITINGLING TO SAY THE LEAST. AS MY MIND DOES NOT THINK IN "FRAUDULENT TERMS" WE WERE DENIED. MY FAULT!

I AM JUST THE AVERAGE AMERICAN WHO HAPPENED TO MEET A MAN IN ANOTHER COUNTRY AND FELL IN LOVE. WE MARRIED AND I FOLLOWED THE LAWS AND GUIDELINES SET FORTH TO BRING MY HUSBAND HERE AND MY OWN GOVERNMENT IS USING THEIR "SUSPISIONS AND OPINIONS" AGAINST ME.

I HAVE NEVER COMMITED A CRIME, I AM WELL RESPECTED OIN MY WORK PLACE, I PAY MY BILLS, I PAY TAXES, I SUPPORT THE POOR, I LOVE MY COUNTRY, YET I AM CONSIDERED A CRIMINAL BECAUSE I MARRIED A YOUNGER MAN FROM A MUSLIN COUNTRY!!!

I AM NOW GETTING A GREAT EDUCATION ON IMMIGRATION TO SAY THE LEAST!

I AM HOPING TO EDUCATE OTHER COUPLES WHO FALL VICTIM OF THIS GAME CALLED IMMIGRATION SO THEY WILL NOT FALL INTO SAME THE BLACK HOLE WE FELL INTO. ALL BECAUSE OF.........

MY AGE!!!!!!!!

let me tell ya, you piss me off! you must be a CO to say the things you say.

nice attitude!! paula offered sound advice that, frankly, anyone on this entire board could use when prepping for their interview. it's a shame that you can't keep emotions out of this and had to reply in such a derogatory fashion.

Let me tell ya ####### is wrong...she has no idea of what happens to a couple who are denied a visa.

I agree being PREPARED is the most important thing one can do. Since she has no experience with denials how on earth can she give advice? In her opinion...that is exactly it...hers.

Some of her advice is WRONG! (more on that later...)

I can't keep my emotions out of this because I want my husband here and there is NOT ONE REASON for him not to be here!!!!!!!!!!

So, like I said, she pisses me off and she sounds like a CO...(oooooo don't piss them off or you'll get denied!!!) That is a bunch of #######.

Paula is giving advice on other groups as well when she shouldn't. Not everthing works for everyone. That's so narrow minded. There are many many issues to consider.

I'm just a little confused, is this thread about your husband or your friend's?

IT STARTED OUT FOR ADVICE FOR MY FRIEND. SHE FEEL INTO THE SAME BLACK HOLE WE DID... DENIED BECAUSE OUR HUSBAND HAPPEN TO BE YOUNGER.

ANY MORE QUESTIONS?

In regards to saying It's OK that we have a big age difference, Mohammed had an older wife... I mean, really can't the CO refute that by stating how many wives he had and how many he had at one time? I mean, come on, that was one era and this is another...

All you have to do is ask yourself, if you have a fiance/husband from the ME/NA, would he marry a morroccan woman who is much older than him? would he marry a divorced morroccan woman? would he marry a morroccan woman with kids? ask him as well.. it is more the exception than the rule there.

THE BOTTOM LINE IS HE MARRIED ME!!!! WHY DO I HAVE TO ASK "WHAT IFS"????

WHOSE BUSINESS IS IT THAT I MARRIED A YOUNGER MAN??? MINE AND HIS!!!

WE JUST NEED THE CO TO FOLLOW THE GUIDELINES AND LAWS TO SHOW WE HAVE A "REAL" MARRIAGE. DANG WHY IS THAT SO DIFFICULT???? 5 MIN AND WE WERE GUILTY OF FRAUD.

@#$%&^*($%(*&)(*&)^*&)(^&(*)&(*^%$#@#@$*&)(*_)_+(*&^&%$$#@$#@!

I have to agree with Icey. The Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) also had a "child" bride and regardless of when it was consummated,

WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT THAT PART OF HIS LIFE.

I don't think any of us would condone it today - and that argument certainly wouldn't fly with the consulate.

OF COURSE

It is extremely rare within Morocco that men marry older women,

I DISAGREE

and divorcees are also considered less desirable. There was recently a study done, and most people agreed that 25 was "old" for a woman to marry in Morocco.

WHERE IS THE STUDY?

Older women are common in the Moroccan/American marriages, but so is the fact that the guy is underemployed/unemployed... and I think there are reasons for both.... none of which mean there cannot also be true love.

SURE!

Rebecca

[chiquita 0]

OK...no more help/advice from the FOX...you are all on your own now. Im sure that I will be missed.

Betcha that I can come back here and see that nothing has changed.

hint ------ Convince the Consulate (thru your SO), that you have a valid relationship....that will endure, and that you are not being victimized.

No need to thank me........Good luck to all.

FOXX!!!

HURRAY THE FOX HAS RETREATED!!!

BTW...I DID JUST THAT!!!

[diadromous mermaid 36]

EXCUSE ME BUT THE POINT IS....THE LAW! Not their opinions or suspicions.

This I addressed below:

Opinions as to whether the applicant meets the requirement as established by law and regulation, of which the ConOff is and should be aware.

OH ABSOLUTELY!!! How I wish this was true!!!!

Well if you feel that is the case, do something about it then. There are all sorts of avenues to bring the agency to task.

Now, in the case of an alien at an interview, there are many factors involved: demeanour and comportment, answers to enquiries, evidence etc. All come into play. If a ConOff does not ask for evidence, it could be that something in the other factors triggered an impression, that he/she believes could not be overcome.

I SO DISAGREE!!! demeanour and comportment????????????? factors triggered an impression, that he/she believes could not be overcome?????????????????

Yes, believe it or not people DO telegraph the unspoken. I'm not simply speaking of nervousness, I'm speaking of aversion, disingenuous intentions etc. No one comes out and declares he/she is averting law. It can be communicated subtley. However, one fact that you simply don't seem to understand is that the onus is upon the applicant to demonstrate eligibility.

OMG...GUILTY!!!! The law is very clear...the CO must have concrete evidence. Most Americans are nervous when in front of a goverment official, how much more is an immigrant??? We are talking LEGAL immigrants with all the paperwork right there in front of the CO. IMMPRESSION?? How on earth does that by pass the law??

Please post your veritable sources for this statement.

1) Either the applicant demonstrated genuine eligibility in all areas being reviewed as above, and the ConOff made a mistake and the applicant is eligible for the visa

]

MOST LIKELY

So you were there and had reviewed all of the information, were you?

2) Or the ConOff picked up on something which lead him/her to believe that the applicant is not

PICKED UP??? USCIS found him to be eligible 2 times now!!! They will be married 3 years next month.

Perhaps there is something that you aren't aware of, just perhaps?

[chiquita 0]

Perhaps there is something that you aren't aware of, just perhaps?

YES, BUT I HAVE KNOW THIS COUPLE FOR A FEW YEARS.

ALSO I BELONG TO SEVERAL ON LINE GROUPS WHO HAVE MARRIED MOROCCAN PEOPLE.

IT APPEARS THIS HAS JUST STARTED HAPPENEING IN CASA...IE 2005.

MY SENATOR TOLD ME THERE WAS A STUDY DONE ON MARRIAGES THAT FAIL (FROM MUSLIM COUNTRIES) SO THIS IS WHY WHEN AN OLDER WOMAN MARRIES A YOUNGER MUSLIM MAN THE CO RETURNS THE CASE TO USCIS.

THEY ARE WANTING TO "PROTECT" HER.

LIKE I SAID IN AN EARLIER POST, THE ISSUE HERE IS THAT WE ARE FOUND "GUILTY" OF FRAUD UNTIL WE HAVE PROVEN A SECOND (OR FOR THIS COUPLE A THIRD TIME) THAT WE INDEED HAVE A VALID MARRIAGE.

I DO RELIZE THERE HAS BEEN A LOT OF GREAT ADVICE GIVEN FOR THOSE WHO ARE FACING THEIR INTERVIEW IN CASA. I JUST WANT TO SAY NOT ALL OF IT WILL WORK. COMING HERE WILL HELP TO EDUCATE AND PREPARE YOU AND YOUR SO FOR THE INTERVIEW.

I WAS IGNORANT TO A LOT OF THINGS, ONE BEING MY AGE FACTOR. I DO NOT THINK WITH A "CRIMINAL AND FRAUD MENATALITY". I JUST SIMPLY FOLLOWED THE LAWS AND GUIDELINES THE BEST I KNEW. WHICH BTW FAILED IN MY CASE.

MANY OF THE POSTS HERE IN THIS THREAD HAVE BEEN VERY NEGATIVE. THAT IS SUCH A WASTE OF TIME AND EFFORT FOR ALL OF US SEEKING HELP.

SOME JUST ARE REAL "ROUGH" AROUND THE EDGES IN THEIR ADVUCE SO IT IS NOT WELL RECEIVED ALBEIT USEFUL.

TIME FOR ME TO SIGN OFF UNTIL ANOTHER DAY.

GOT A WONDERFUL LIITLE BOY HERE WHO WANTS TO GO SWIMMINMG! IT'S HIS BIRTHDAT TO BOOT! (6YEARS OLD) GAVE HIM A WONDERFUL BOOK ON DRAGONS! NOW FOR MORE SURPRISES FOR HIM!!

HAVE A GREAT DAY YA ALL AND REMEMBER ONE THING...

"iF YA CAN'T SAY SOMETING NICE...DON'T SAY IT!!!"

(H LEFT OUT ON PURPOSE)

ALSO...FOR GIVE THE TYPOS...I AM SOOOOOOOOOO DYSLEXIC...

chi

[meauxna 15]

You say that USCIS "found him to be eligible 2 times". Meaning, USCIS confirmed that there is a US citizen who has a legal "immediate relative" realtionship with him. That's it, period. That is all a petition establishes.

He must then qualify for the visa in his own right.

And after he has it, he must qualify for entry to the US in his own right, at the discretion of the CBP.

[Bosco 1]

I don't think selectively pulling one part of the Prophet's life is an argument that will resonate with the consulate. It may make sense to the man marrying an older woman, but I agree with the other posters that it isn't something the CO will consider as much of an argument.

You may disagree that older woman/younger man marriages (both Moroccan) are rare in Morocco, but then we can discuss what constitutes "rare". It is far from common, and it sure isn't even remotely as common as the older woman/younger man marriages between a Moroccan Man and a Western women.

Quote from the survey: This national survey on Moroccan society's values concluded that more than 90% of Moroccans, men and women, favour marriage. Eighty five percent of them say it is preferable to marry before 25. Early marriage is associated with women and the late one with men. Most of the population said that over 25 is the ideal age for men to marry.

It also says that marriage without children is "almost unthinkable" and implications can be drawn from that about marriage to a woman beyond child bearing years.

Source: http://www.moroccotimes.com/paper/article....11&id=14177

I don't think there is anything wrong with a large age difference -- just stating as others have that it is not the norm in the country and hence probably the reason the consulate considers it a red flag.

Rebecca

Edited June 22, 2006 by rhouni

[chiquita 0]

You say that USCIS "found him to be eligible 2 times". Meaning, USCIS confirmed that there is a US citizen who has a legal "immediate relative" realtionship with him. That's it, period. That is all a petition establishes.

He must then qualify for the visa in his own right.

And after he has it, he must qualify for entry to the US in his own right, at the discretion of the CBP.

WELL, IF THAT IS THE "LEGALEZ" THAT IS USED THEN YES YOU ARE RIGHT.

THE US CITIZEN ESTABLISHED SHE HAS A 'VALID MARRIAGE' BY SENDING IN THE PROOF (THAT WAS PRESENT AT THE INTERVIEW BUT THE CO REFUSED TO LOOK AT) AND THEN SOME MORE.

ONE USCIS REAFFIMS THE CASE THEY THEN SENDS A NOA TO THE PETITIONER THAT THEY HAVE SENT NOTICE REQUESTING DOS TO TAKE ACTION ON THE CASE.

QUALIFY? YOU MEAN MORE HOOPS TO JUMP THROUGH?

.

Source: http://www.moroccotimes.com/paper/article....11&id=14177

I don't think there is anything wrong with a large age difference -- just stating as others have that it is not the norm in the country and hence probably the reason the consulate considers it a red flag.

Rebecca

THANKS, I'LL READ IT.

[non 0]

hi again, about the age and those stuffs,i believe inside usa there r ones who married and they have age difference,especially the famous people there some is 30 to 40 yrs difference from donald trump to the woman married the wheelchair 80yrs man.i want to ask, what the younger woman has and the older doesnt have? if it's about beauty, they r beautiful olders.weights? it's not important as it's easy to lose and gain and there youngers much fat.energy? there r youth but they have no energy no high spirit and so on.that desert fox said there r people (muslims like he said) want to go there,but he forgot or wanted to ignore there r europeans,canadians,australians,japaneses ... r doing the same visa process and all say they r worry and being sick of waitting and waitting.there r countries u can live better in too, but lots like usa as they want to see and live the american life they see in tv in movies,but not all of them just use every way to be in there.to go to usa is nice but to be with a sweet love in ur side is the nicest and the sweetest.

P.S: my friend aunt (here in morocco) is up 42 yrs and she's married to a 30ies man,they r moroccans muslims,he has the house and the work and she doesnt work,so he didnt look for a fortune from a woman with no salary.and my nighbor is married to a divorced lady with a 2 yrs kid. so not all what some read about muslims from the non muslims writtings r true.

~'~ THAT WAS MY OPINION N YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO AGREE AND DISAGREE JUST TALK NICE ~'~

Edited June 22, 2006 by abderrahim n tina

[diadromous mermaid 36]

You say that USCIS "found him to be eligible 2 times". Meaning, USCIS confirmed that there is a US citizen who has a legal "immediate relative" realtionship with him. That's it, period. That is all a petition establishes.

He must then qualify for the visa in his own right.

And after he has it, he must qualify for entry to the US in his own right, at the discretion of the CBP.

WELL, IF THAT IS THE "LEGALEZ" THAT IS USED THEN YES YOU ARE RIGHT.

THE US CITIZEN ESTABLISHED SHE HAS A 'VALID MARRIAGE' BY SENDING IN THE PROOF (THAT WAS PRESENT AT THE INTERVIEW BUT THE CO REFUSED TO LOOK AT) AND THEN SOME MORE.

ONE USCIS REAFFIMS THE CASE THEY THEN SENDS A NOA TO THE PETITIONER THAT THEY HAVE SENT NOTICE REQUESTING DOS TO TAKE ACTION ON THE CASE.

QUALIFY? YOU MEAN MORE HOOPS TO JUMP THROUGH?

Oh brother! Chiquita, you wanted to have the law cited, and here you are questioning it. USCIS handles the petitioner's request for a visa to be issued to his/her immediate relative beneficiary. USCIS reviews the request and if evidence demonstrates that the beneficiary indeed has an immediate relative relationship with the petitioner, the petition is approved. Period.

Next stage is DOS, a completely different process involving different eligibility requirements, but related and dependent upon an approved petition by USCIS. They have their own set of criterion to meet. The "Immediate relative" beneficiary (already established that the legal union exists, but what is not decided is *why* and for *what purpose* it was entered into). DOS then takes it from there.

[morocco4ever 63]

Some people just cannot be helped.

Endless posts about how things aren't fair or how they "should" be handled aren't addressing the realities of the situation.

Continue on ... stick by what you "want" to be the case. Don't go to any extra trouble because you think it shouldn't be necessary. Feel better because so many are in the same boat. At least you will have the comforting feeling of righteousness in your defeat.

I don't know where you're getting this from. Yes, there has been a lot of complaining around here, and rightfully so - some people have been waiting a very long time here to be with their loved one. But there has also been a lot of effort in trying to figure out how to achieve successful resolutions in some of the trickier cases. I think everyone around here HAS gone through extra trouble because we know it IS necessary, even if we believe that it SHOULDN'T be.

Please don't step into one thread and spout sarcastic remarks when you haven't been around through it all. You obviously haven't seen all of the constructive advice given around here as much if not more than the comiseration.

And maybe, it's not that some people can't be helped, it's just that they can't be helped by you and others with similar comments. What solutions have any of the non ME/NA posters propsed here? Instead it's been a whole lot of, "Well, that's the way it is. Why don't you try to find a solution instead of complaining? The CO has a right to deny you if she thinks you smell funny." Which I sort of take as a euphemism for, "I agree with the COs, you all are a bunch of shams, and you deserve what you get for playing with your boytoys."

Sure, we can all turn off our "emotion switch", ummmm...and then what??? What is everyone REALLY trying to say here?

I have been following this thread...every post...and I've seen much advice given that was picked apart and disregarded ... perhaps because the advice was not what some wanted to hear... at least is appeared that way. What I have seen is a whole lot of debate about wheter this or that should be allowed by the CO... if it's right for them to make the judgements they do.

The advice given is good yes, but it doesn't always work. That is the reason for the complaints here. We have people offering basic advice but they don't necessarily know whether or not this person actually already did what they say will work. Emotions are high here because we are being told that we screwed up, when we know that isn't the case.

Obviously this thread is going nowhere.

Chi, I wish I had some advice that would help her in the future efforts rather than the misguided advice you have received here. Please tell your friend that our prayers are with her and her husband.

I learned something new about our case today. The consulate actually told our representative that they screwed up our case by not looking at our evidence, and they wish they could take it back, but they can't at this point. Now this is something I never expected from them!

[diadromous mermaid 36]

Some people just cannot be helped.

Endless posts about how things aren't fair or how they "should" be handled aren't addressing the realities of the situation.

Continue on ... stick by what you "want" to be the case. Don't go to any extra trouble because you think it shouldn't be necessary. Feel better because so many are in the same boat. At least you will have the comforting feeling of righteousness in your defeat.

I don't know where you're getting this from. Yes, there has been a lot of complaining around here, and rightfully so - some people have been waiting a very long time here to be with their loved one. But there has also been a lot of effort in trying to figure out how to achieve successful resolutions in some of the trickier cases. I think everyone around here HAS gone through extra trouble because we know it IS necessary, even if we believe that it SHOULDN'T be.

Please don't step into one thread and spout sarcastic remarks when you haven't been around through it all. You obviously haven't seen all of the constructive advice given around here as much if not more than the comiseration.

And maybe, it's not that some people can't be helped, it's just that they can't be helped by you and others with similar comments. What solutions have any of the non ME/NA posters propsed here? Instead it's been a whole lot of, "Well, that's the way it is. Why don't you try to find a solution instead of complaining? The CO has a right to deny you if she thinks you smell funny." Which I sort of take as a euphemism for, "I agree with the COs, you all are a bunch of shams, and you deserve what you get for playing with your boytoys."

Sure, we can all turn off our "emotion switch", ummmm...and then what??? What is everyone REALLY trying to say here?

I have been following this thread...every post...and I've seen much advice given that was picked apart and disregarded ... perhaps because the advice was not what some wanted to hear... at least is appeared that way. What I have seen is a whole lot of debate about wheter this or that should be allowed by the CO... if it's right for them to make the judgements they do.

The advice given is good yes, but it doesn't always work. That is the reason for the complaints here. We have people offering basic advice but they don't necessarily know whether or not this person actually already did what they say will work. Emotions are high here because we are being told that we screwed up, when we know that isn't the case.

Obviously this thread is going nowhere.

Chi, I wish I had some advice that would help her in the future efforts rather than the misguided advice you have received here. Please tell your friend that our prayers are with her and her husband.

I learned something new about our case today. The consulate actually told our representative that they screwed up our case by not looking at our evidence, and they wish they could take it back, but they can't at this point. Now this is something I never expected from them!

I'd like to clarify something in the fairness of all that have spent time participating in this thread, and admittedly, I have not re-read each of the 11 pages, but I think to the best of my recollection that the majority of the posts in this thread have not been offering advice that a member in the ME/NA should follow, but rather it's been a case reiterating the protocols defined in the DOS and USCIS regulations and of offering possible explanations for why things might have occurred the way they have. There is a distinction, and I know that most VJ members refrain from directing others to do what they are not qualified to do.

And I hesitate to agree that any of that which has been offered is "misguided". That's a stretch, don't you think? Or if you don't and matters are entirely different in this region of the world, then would it be fair to state that what works here, doesn't work elsewhere? In that regard, wouldn't it also be prudent to bear that in mind when participating in threads that pertain to other areas of the world? I don't think one can adopt one point of view, in one instance, and then disregard it in another.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

diaddie,

Why do you insist on wasting your time with the people on this thread? Isn't it clear that do not want actual conversation about the issues, all they want is to commiserate with the sisterhood?