I feel like I have just been hit with a ton of bricks :(

[TBoneTX 45,288]

As to being at the interveiw - by all means, at this point in time, I would say to EVERYONE going thru any Indian consulate - BE THERE! I had a choice - keep my job or go to the interview and I thought I was being responsible by staying and working [because we would have AOS to deal with just down the road - proof of income needed, heck just the fees to pay]. I now realize I chose the wrong option.

SI, MAN. Same goes triple for Ecuador. And, how dare these consulates arbitrarily decree policies or requirements so opaque as to not be posted on their own websites? And, how dare these consulates expect U.S. citizens to be at their beck & call -- "More proof! Second interview! Bring your fiance!"

[Ann 26 1]

As to being at the interveiw - by all means, at this point in time, I would say to EVERYONE going thru any Indian consulate - BE THERE! I had a choice - keep my job or go to the interview and I thought I was being responsible by staying and working [because we would have AOS to deal with just down the road - proof of income needed, heck just the fees to pay]. I now realize I chose the wrong option.

SI, MAN. Same goes triple for Ecuador. And, how dare these consulates arbitrarily decree policies or requirements so opaque as to not be posted on their own websites? And, how dare these consulates expect U.S. citizens to be at their beck & call -- "More proof! Second interview! Bring your fiance!"

Consuls think that they are very powerful which is true and accordingly they can do anything they like. Deny you with no particular reason, shout at you, suspect your relationship and simply make you life more complicated.

All the Eastern European countries as well as Middle East are not liked very much. They consider ppl from these countries to be desperate to go to the States by gaining sham marriages etc. So, once they think that your case is suspended they will do their best to deny you...This is depressing but that's the truth...

[rebeccajo 14]

As to being at the interveiw - by all means, at this point in time, I would say to EVERYONE going thru any Indian consulate - BE THERE! I had a choice - keep my job or go to the interview and I thought I was being responsible by staying and working [because we would have AOS to deal with just down the road - proof of income needed, heck just the fees to pay]. I now realize I chose the wrong option.

SI, MAN. Same goes triple for Ecuador. And, how dare these consulates arbitrarily decree policies or requirements so opaque as to not be posted on their own websites? And, how dare these consulates expect U.S. citizens to be at their beck & call -- "More proof! Second interview! Bring your fiance!"

TBone -

You know, we've discussed this before. My perspective is that since immigration is not a right granted by the US Constitution, then DOS and USCIS can pretty much make the rules.

Insofar as opaque policies, this is why whenever I am able to say it, I say to readers to research and learn about their consulate via anecdotal experience. Even the Department of Motor Vehicles in most states do not publish ALL their requirements for immigrants to obtain a driver's license. I'm not suggesting that people who presume to learn all from published literature or a website are stupid, but I will go so far as to say that's a foolish expectation.

I don't know how the Indian consulates are operating these days. There are three of them, and I suppose it's highly possible that all three operate very differently...........

Edited January 22, 2009 by rebeccajo

[morocco4ever 63]

As to being at the interveiw - by all means, at this point in time, I would say to EVERYONE going thru any Indian consulate - BE THERE! I had a choice - keep my job or go to the interview and I thought I was being responsible by staying and working [because we would have AOS to deal with just down the road - proof of income needed, heck just the fees to pay]. I now realize I chose the wrong option.

SI, MAN. Same goes triple for Ecuador. And, how dare these consulates arbitrarily decree policies or requirements so opaque as to not be posted on their own websites? And, how dare these consulates expect U.S. citizens to be at their beck & call -- "More proof! Second interview! Bring your fiance!"

TBone -

You know, we've discussed this before. My perspective is that since immigration is not a right granted by the US Constitution, then DOS and USCIS can pretty much make the rules.

Insofar as opaque policies, this is why whenever I am able to say it, I say to readers to research and learn about their consulate via anecdotal experience. Even the Department of Motor Vehicles in most states do not publish ALL their requirements for immigrants to obtain a driver's license. I'm not suggesting that people who presume to learn all from published literature or a website are stupid, but I will go so far as to say that's a foolish expectation.

I don't know how the Indian consulates are operating these days. There are three of them, and I suppose it's highly possible that all three operate very differently...........

In some ways I agree with you. It is their job to sniff out fraud. And yes, it is not a right to have to get a visa. And yes, our case had enough red flags that they had to give us a harder interview. No blame for that.

But it seems that they create extra work for themselves and the USCIS with some of their lame practices. They doubted our case based on my husbands sister (long story). If they would have issued the 221g with a request for more information we could have provided it. But they refused to give us the opportunity. This caused an additional 15 months of a wait for us, as well as additional work for the USCIS (as if their workload isn't heavy enough). What we gave the consulate is what won our case with the USCIS. The only thing we added was proof of his sisters marriage. The case was sent back to the consulate and they had to schedule another interview, which backlogs cases even further. My husband got the visa, but what a waste of time for everyone involved.

I suspect that they do see enough fraud however that they just throw their hands up and sends it back thinking that if its real it will come back. In ways I can see their frustration, but it really isn't very efficient in the end.

[catknit 144]

In some ways I agree with you. It is their job to sniff out fraud. And yes, it is not a right to have to get a visa. And yes, our case had enough red flags that they had to give us a harder interview. No blame for that.

But it seems that they create extra work for themselves and the USCIS with some of their lame practices. They doubted our case based on my husbands sister (long story). If they would have issued the 221g with a request for more information we could have provided it. But they refused to give us the opportunity. This caused an additional 15 months of a wait for us, as well as additional work for the USCIS (as if their workload isn't heavy enough). What we gave the consulate is what won our case with the USCIS. The only thing we added was proof of his sisters marriage. The case was sent back to the consulate and they had to schedule another interview, which backlogs cases even further. My husband got the visa, but what a waste of time for everyone involved.

I suspect that they do see enough fraud however that they just throw their hands up and sends it back thinking that if its real it will come back. In ways I can see their frustration, but it really isn't very efficient in the end.

I think for me it is the inefficiency that truly bugs me! In our case, we were give a laundry list of items to present as "additional evidence" - 80% of which he had on him at the interview-was it looked at? Nope. Part of me thought, ok - they just want to take their time going through the additional evidence. Good, then they will see the 100s of emails, the year of at least daily phone calls, the affidavits of friends and family talking about our relationship...

In hindsight, I realize there is nothing on paper we could have presented that would have made an ounce of difference - had I known what I know now I wouldn't have handed in the 221(g) information without a trip back to India and to the consulate itself first. While still under the first 221(g), we had a year to make our case. With the denial, we are now in lala-land which will just eat up our time and theirs. Plus, the case will be coming back...which form it will take we are still deciding. And it proves your point morocco4ever, the real petitions will come back.

[emt103c 10]

People keep pointing out that a visa is not a right. Understood, but there are legal means to get a visa and as such they should follow their own rules and not ignore what we say completely. There are legal reasons to deny a visa and there are stupid, ignorant, lazy ways too.

Many CO's won't look at evidence that is right in front of their face, and more of them are on a power trip than an intelligent, well-thinking human being would like to believe. These cases are being returned while obvious and blatant fraud is let go daily. . .I know anecdotally of several, and they were NEVER questioned.

[Ann 26 1]

People keep pointing out that a visa is not a right. Understood, but there are legal means to get a visa and as such they should follow their own rules and not ignore what we say completely. There are legal reasons to deny a visa and there are stupid, ignorant, lazy ways too.

Many CO's won't look at evidence that is right in front of their face, and more of them are on a power trip than an intelligent, well-thinking human being would like to believe. These cases are being returned while obvious and blatant fraud is let go daily. . .I know anecdotally of several, and they were NEVER questioned.

I really really don't know what was wrong with my case. We did everything legally, I never committed crime, etc. My fiance visitied me 2 times etc....We are not doing anything connected fraud ( I think Con. Off use this a lot , as they personally think that the case can't be "true" ) If the case is connected with fruad USCIS has authority to approve or disapprove the cases andc check it, once they approve that if something special doesn't happen legally Con.Off can't deny visas ...Consulate's work is to sceen the applicant, check the medical result and give them instuctions for waiver if needed, no one says they can adjudicate the petition and express their own opinions....

[Twisted K 2]

As it was stated, I agree, it looks like they are on a power trip. Making more work and causing a waste of time on everyone involved. I am surely sending another case if and when it ever gets to uscis. i know some extra evidence i will include, and will be looking to fellow vjers for assistance. i read somewhere if you include more info when sending your petition to uscis in the first place, the con offs cannot deny for the same reason when uscis has approved. is that correct?

[Ann 26 1]

As it was stated, I agree, it looks like they are on a power trip. Making more work and causing a waste of time on everyone involved. I am surely sending another case if and when it ever gets to uscis. i know some extra evidence i will include, and will be looking to fellow vjers for assistance. i read somewhere if you include more info when sending your petition to uscis in the first place, the con offs cannot deny for the same reason when uscis has approved. is that correct?

I also hope that ,for the second time they can't deny the petition for the same reason. In my case I am pretty sure the age difference was a problem, but they never revealed that info . I know ppl here say that you need to wait what they will do for you returned K-1 petition , which will take years probably, and then you lose your hopes and mostly ppl give up. That's the Consuls' hope as well, then they can tell that they were right. You don't have to give up, and you have to be very active which shows that US citize really cares about the applicat (if the wives are only applicants..lol )

We didn't give up and hopefully this time Consul won't find anything "new" to deny our case one more time. I am pretty sure that the adjudicators in our petition write their remarks after approving the case, so they will say a word about returned petition as well.

[TBoneTX 45,288]

i read somewhere if you include more info when sending your petition to uscis in the first place, the con offs cannot deny for the same reason when uscis has approved. is that correct?

According to citations provided by the noted immigration attorney Marc Ellis, correct, si man.

People keep pointing out that a visa is not a right. Understood, but there are legal means to get a visa and as such they should follow their own rules and not ignore what we say completely. There are legal reasons to deny a visa and there are stupid, ignorant, lazy ways too.

Many CO's won't look at evidence that is right in front of their face, and more of them are on a power trip than an intelligent, well-thinking human being would like to believe. These cases are being returned while obvious and blatant fraud is let go daily. . .I know anecdotally of several, and they were NEVER questioned.

This entire quote should be pinned, and bronzed. Si, man.

[catknit 144]

kaushalia,

That's how it was explained to me by one attorney - another attorney gave the option of marriage to "nullify" the first K1.

#1 Attorney said refile immediately - if USCIS approves the second petition [with all the original info and more proof and a cover letter explaining what happened at the interveiw] they are reaffirming the 1st petition [denied by the CO]. The CO at the 2nd interview can NOT deny on the same basis as the 1st interview [given that the denial was not enough relationship proof/lack of bonafides; the 2nd petition's approval proves that USCIS believes there to be a true relationship]. This is a short cut to circumvent the 5 year wait at VSC for reaffirmation/revoke - CSC may be a completely different story. If they DO expire petitions in a timely manner it may benefit you to have the expiration notice before filing again. I'd see if anyone here has experience in that!

#2 Attorney said get married - by no longer being able to marry you have nullified the K1 petition. Refile under the visa that best fits your wants/needs/time frame after the marriage.

Let me also explain that these were 2 of many I researched - just the only ones I felt had the experience to qualify for consultations. I'm still waiting on a few more to schedule consults....

[Ann 26 1]

kaushalia,

That's how it was explained to me by one attorney - another attorney gave the option of marriage to "nullify" the first K1.

#1 Attorney said refile immediately - if USCIS approves the second petition [with all the original info and more proof and a cover letter explaining what happened at the interveiw] they are reaffirming the 1st petition [denied by the CO]. The CO at the 2nd interview can NOT deny on the same basis as the 1st interview [given that the denial was not enough relationship proof/lack of bonafides; the 2nd petition's approval proves that USCIS believes there to be a true relationship]. This is a short cut to circumvent the 5 year wait at VSC for reaffirmation/revoke - CSC may be a completely different story. If they DO expire petitions in a timely manner it may benefit you to have the expiration notice before filing again. I'd see if anyone here has experience in that!

#2 Attorney said get married - by no longer being able to marry you have nullified the K1 petition. Refile under the visa that best fits your wants/needs/time frame after the marriage.

Let me also explain that these were 2 of many I researched - just the only ones I felt had the experience to qualify for consultations. I'm still waiting on a few more to schedule consults....

I personally chose the first option. We got married and included the info about K-1 petition on the second one. Suprisingly and with God's help my new petition was approved in less than 2 months, by that time our K petition was sent back and expired , but we never got any notice from USCIS about their final decision of K-1 petition. WE were very happy that our petition was approved so soon.

Once USCIS knows that after the petition is sent back and you go abroad to visit your spouse\fiance.. it helps the situation a lot.

[catknit 144]

Ann 26,

So...at this point in time what's going on with your case? You filed a K1 and it was denied? Now you're married and refiled for a K3 or CR1/IR1?

Are you two together now?

[Twisted K 2]

Yes, Ann, you have my attention. I am leaving in about 3 weeks, and was seriously considering going ahead and getting married before everything is said and done (probably on the next trip) then refiling before I hear anything from USCIS, and filing a CR1. I have also considered if they will reopen (I know fat chance on a K1) not changing my name to his until after the first petition is over. I have been told by several people that CSC does not review returned K1 petitions, so I could be wasting time by not moving forward.

[Ann 26 1]

Ann 26,

So...at this point in time what's going on with your case? You filed a K1 and it was denied? Now you're married and refiled for a K3 or CR1/IR1?

Are you two together now?

Well, K-1 was denied with no reason at all, but I think Age difference was a red flag to them. aFter that, we contacted the senator, FIOA ,etc and got one simple answer the case has been returned for review. We knew that fiance visa was dead already, as by the time it would be send back it would have been expired....Anyway , he came in my country 3 rd time and we married and refiled CR-1, (it was attorney;s suggestion as well, as we concluded the petition was sent back bcs COnOff was not convinced that we would marry -but sure we never got such kind of info from them)we sent that from my country and we included everything in our new petition. (info about K-1 as well) He stayed with me more than 3 months, so one day , while we got info that our CR-1 was approved. After that lenghty process in NVC, soon I will have interview and my hubby is gonna be with me here, just to show that he really supports and cares about me and the petition as well.

So right now, you need to do all the things stated here to show that you both care about the returned K-1 petition. Meanwhile while you wait for the responses from them , you can decide what you prefer to do. Marry or just sit and wait -God knows for how long.

I can 't say that all the cases are the same , so I can't guarantee if another petition will be approved or not. But if everything was Ok in your K-1 petition, I don't think you will be denied at USCIS stage....

But I can advise you for sure to show your reaction about K-1 petition,It is very important !

Good luck.