what the HECK is proof of ongoing relationship?!

[Laura+Tom 2]

I am getting nervous reading this. My fiance is 19 and from the Philippines and I am 29 and am from the USA. I have a lot of phone records but they are to her cell phone. Can she bring in the phone to prove it is her number? Should I be worried? What is the best way for her to pass the interview? We are planning to be together next year and will be devastated if she isn't approved.

hey not all rednecks are the same, im marrying a guy from the south, yea he is a redneck but he doesnt go around yelling yehaaawwww or have a mullat haircut or watch nascar and guzzle beer. keep your mind on whats important and dont judge other people. otherwise your going to have a very sad life !!!!!!

Think you quoted the wrong person there. But those that did mention rednecks did it in jest.

[Grahm&Sarah 0]

Some good questions about this proof stuff, When you applied for the Visa you had to follow strict legal requirements, which you met if your I-797 was approved, now enter the Consulates which have the same strict legal requirements for a denial but resort to a subjective standard ( how many visits, phone calls, one can get the idea) in many of these denials.

A very good point in that the uscis is not the ultimate deciding factor. Although, the visa is only applied for after the uscis approves the I-129f petition (I-797/NOA2). What you have with your NOA2 is merely an approved petition which then enables your fiance to apply for the visa.

Subjective standard is a very good way to explain how each Embassy decides whether or not a visa is approved. Those higher fraud posts will most likely look for any red flags they can find to dissprove the relationship (age difference, recent divorce, short courtship...etc, etc) ...and then make you jump through hoops. We can blame the CO, the Country, the system, even people on power trips... but ultimately it is those who have abused the system that make it so much harder for the rest of us.

Therefore, it's very important to provide any and all evidence of a bonafide relationship that you can, especially when dealing with these places. If your relationship is true and you are prepared and diligent in your efforts it's very likely you will succeed in bringing your loved one here...eventually.

First I would like to thank you for your interest in this matter, but a I-797 approval is Prima facie evidence that all is legal, if the Consulate finds something after this fact it may issue a denial, something illegal not subjective.

The approval means the requirements have been met that qualify the beneficiary to "apply for" not "to receive" a visa. Petition approval is pretty much an objective process. Approving a visa application is indeed highly subjective. Consular officers do have additional information as a result of the information submitted by the visa applicant. In Guangzhou, that includes the very detailed GIV-24 form, the visa applications themselves and the answers to interview questions. As such, it's wise to prepare accordingly.

Well tell me is someone blowing wind with the following?

“6. In adjudicating visa cases involving petitions, posts should bear in mind three important factors: A. the consular officer's role in the petition process is to determine if there is substantial evidence relevant to petition validity not previously considered by DHS, and not to merely readjudicate the petition; B. the memo supporting the petition return must clearly show the factual and concrete reasons for recommending revocation (observations made by the consular officer cannot be conclusive, speculative, equivocal or irrelevant) and; C. consular officers must provide to the applicant in writing as full an explanation as possible of the legal and factual basis for the visa denial and petition return. Post must maintain a copy of the returned petition, other evidence relevant to the case, and a copy of the written notification of the denial.

No readjudication of petitions

7. In general, an approved petition will be considered by consular officers as prima facie evidence that the requirements for classification - which are examined in the petition process - have been met. Where Congress has placed responsibility and authority with DHS to determine whether the requirements for status which are examined in the petition process have been met, consular officers do not have the authority to question the approval of petitions without specific evidence, generally unavailable to DHS at the time of petition approval, that the beneficiary may not be entitled to status (see 9 FAM 41.53, Note 2, 41.54 Note 3.2-2, 41.55 Note 8, 41.56 Note 10, 41.57 Note 6, and 42.43 Note 2) due to fraud, changes in circumstances or clear error on the part of DHS in approving the petition. Conoffs should not assume that a petition should be revoked simply because they would have reached a different decision if adjudicating the petition

That's a fair question but words mean what they mean, not what we wish them to mean. Consular officers have concrete information no provided with the petition. An example would be something we've seen recently. The petition was filed shortly after the couple was together in person but the interview didn't happen until 17 months later. The couple had not seen each other during the preceding 17 months and had little other evidence of bona fide ongoing relationship. Additionally, the visa applicant was unable to answer some basic questions one would expect a fiancee to know about her fiance if the relationship was bona fide. USCIS did not have access to any of that information when the petition was adjudicated.

7. above mentions "the requirements for classification - which are examined in the petition process - have been met. " "Requirements for classification" in the case of a K1 case, simply refers to having met a set of basic requirements like both being free to marry, the petitioner has status as a USC, there are no AWA convictions or terrorist concerns and they've met in person within two years. Judging the bona fides is still up to the Consular officer.

Further subjectivity enters the scene as the Consular officer makes decisions about questions and follow-up questions based on their judgment of what they see and the answers they are given. Most visa denials occur because of poor interview preparation or actual concrete evidence relationships don't meet the reasonable person standard for concluding the relationship is bona fide.

The best way to assure success is to actually have and live a bona fide relationship and for the beneficiary to be fully informed and prepared for the interview.

pushbrk - do you have any links or forms to help someone prep thoroughly for the interview? I am sure many of us newbies would appreciate that.

Thanks

Grahm&Sarah

[KimandRuss 0]

I'm not pushbrk but....

Example Interview Questions... from the FAQ

[pushbrk 12,606]

Some good questions about this proof stuff, When you applied for the Visa you had to follow strict legal requirements, which you met if your I-797 was approved, now enter the Consulates which have the same strict legal requirements for a denial but resort to a subjective standard ( how many visits, phone calls, one can get the idea) in many of these denials.

A very good point in that the uscis is not the ultimate deciding factor. Although, the visa is only applied for after the uscis approves the I-129f petition (I-797/NOA2). What you have with your NOA2 is merely an approved petition which then enables your fiance to apply for the visa.

Subjective standard is a very good way to explain how each Embassy decides whether or not a visa is approved. Those higher fraud posts will most likely look for any red flags they can find to dissprove the relationship (age difference, recent divorce, short courtship...etc, etc) ...and then make you jump through hoops. We can blame the CO, the Country, the system, even people on power trips... but ultimately it is those who have abused the system that make it so much harder for the rest of us.

Therefore, it's very important to provide any and all evidence of a bonafide relationship that you can, especially when dealing with these places. If your relationship is true and you are prepared and diligent in your efforts it's very likely you will succeed in bringing your loved one here...eventually.

First I would like to thank you for your interest in this matter, but a I-797 approval is Prima facie evidence that all is legal, if the Consulate finds something after this fact it may issue a denial, something illegal not subjective.

The approval means the requirements have been met that qualify the beneficiary to "apply for" not "to receive" a visa. Petition approval is pretty much an objective process. Approving a visa application is indeed highly subjective. Consular officers do have additional information as a result of the information submitted by the visa applicant. In Guangzhou, that includes the very detailed GIV-24 form, the visa applications themselves and the answers to interview questions. As such, it's wise to prepare accordingly.

Well tell me is someone blowing wind with the following?

“6. In adjudicating visa cases involving petitions, posts should bear in mind three important factors: A. the consular officer's role in the petition process is to determine if there is substantial evidence relevant to petition validity not previously considered by DHS, and not to merely readjudicate the petition; B. the memo supporting the petition return must clearly show the factual and concrete reasons for recommending revocation (observations made by the consular officer cannot be conclusive, speculative, equivocal or irrelevant) and; C. consular officers must provide to the applicant in writing as full an explanation as possible of the legal and factual basis for the visa denial and petition return. Post must maintain a copy of the returned petition, other evidence relevant to the case, and a copy of the written notification of the denial.

No readjudication of petitions

7. In general, an approved petition will be considered by consular officers as prima facie evidence that the requirements for classification - which are examined in the petition process - have been met. Where Congress has placed responsibility and authority with DHS to determine whether the requirements for status which are examined in the petition process have been met, consular officers do not have the authority to question the approval of petitions without specific evidence, generally unavailable to DHS at the time of petition approval, that the beneficiary may not be entitled to status (see 9 FAM 41.53, Note 2, 41.54 Note 3.2-2, 41.55 Note 8, 41.56 Note 10, 41.57 Note 6, and 42.43 Note 2) due to fraud, changes in circumstances or clear error on the part of DHS in approving the petition. Conoffs should not assume that a petition should be revoked simply because they would have reached a different decision if adjudicating the petition

That's a fair question but words mean what they mean, not what we wish them to mean. Consular officers have concrete information no provided with the petition. An example would be something we've seen recently. The petition was filed shortly after the couple was together in person but the interview didn't happen until 17 months later. The couple had not seen each other during the preceding 17 months and had little other evidence of bona fide ongoing relationship. Additionally, the visa applicant was unable to answer some basic questions one would expect a fiancee to know about her fiance if the relationship was bona fide. USCIS did not have access to any of that information when the petition was adjudicated.

7. above mentions "the requirements for classification - which are examined in the petition process - have been met. " "Requirements for classification" in the case of a K1 case, simply refers to having met a set of basic requirements like both being free to marry, the petitioner has status as a USC, there are no AWA convictions or terrorist concerns and they've met in person within two years. Judging the bona fides is still up to the Consular officer.

Further subjectivity enters the scene as the Consular officer makes decisions about questions and follow-up questions based on their judgment of what they see and the answers they are given. Most visa denials occur because of poor interview preparation or actual concrete evidence relationships don't meet the reasonable person standard for concluding the relationship is bona fide.

The best way to assure success is to actually have and live a bona fide relationship and for the beneficiary to be fully informed and prepared for the interview.

pushbrk - do you have any links or forms to help someone prep thoroughly for the interview? I am sure many of us newbies would appreciate that.

Thanks

Grahm&Sarah

I too would have referred you to the Guides and FAQ. Beyond that, study interview reports particularly from your specific Consulate for guidance. The beneficiary would be wise to become intimately familiar with the petitioner's life history and family, just like in a "real" relationship.

[dbbri 0]

"what the HECK is proof of ongoing relationship?!"

That one was easy for us

Edited January 8, 2009 by dbbri

[KimandRuss 0]

Do you mean because you had a child together???

For some, that may help but for most it just really proves there was sex.

[Hell0W0rld 10]

"what the HECK is proof of ongoing relationship?!"

That one was easy for us

sometimes you have to get DNA test also..... good luck on your journey

Edited January 8, 2009 by HelloWorld08

[dbbri 0]

Do you mean because you had a child together???

For some, that may help but for most it just really proves there was sex.

That's a Luuuuuuuuve child ba-bee!!!!!

[KimandRuss 0]

ok, there was loving sex.

[Craneman 2]

Do you mean because you had a child together???

For some, that may help but for most it just really proves there was sex.

A child proves someone had sex. Most of the time.

[dbbri 0]

"what the HECK is proof of ongoing relationship?!"

That one was easy for us

sometimes you have to get DNA test also..... good luck on your journey

Thanks, he was no problem. CRBA and bingo he's a citizen!

Edited January 8, 2009 by dbbri

[Craneman 2]

If you are really concerned about proving your relationship, you must have many doubts yourself.

[KimandRuss 0]

If you are really concerned about proving your relationship, you must have many doubts yourself.

That's not really a fair statement. The OP is asking the question because in many places no matter how much evidence you think you have, you are often required to supply even more. It's a question often asked by those going through difficult posts for interview.

We've gone a bit OT with dbbri's baby comment but I believe (hope) that was just made in jest... I laughed. cute baby btw.

[Hell0W0rld 10]

If you are really concerned about proving your relationship, you must have many doubts yourself.

That's not really a fair statement. The OP is asking the question because in many places no matter how much evidence you think you have, you are often required to supply even more. It's a question often asked by those going through difficult posts for interview.

agreed!! for example ; China

[dbbri 0]

Is sad because it is so easy to marry in the US, many here don't take it seriously. But if you fall in love with someone in a foreign country you have to jump through a million hoops just to be together.

Edited January 8, 2009 by dbbri