Prop 13: Idiocy Comes Home to Roost in California

[DEDixon 39]

california battles mississippi for worst schools in america

back in the 70s, california used to be the envy of america. great public schools. tuition free universities. now.the state ranks among the bottom 5 states.

Yeap, California has a country load of illegals who do not speak English going to its schools. For the students that have managed to learn English, they have parents at home who can't guide them in school as well for they have very little education and don't speak English.

The left complains about school while inviting illegals in to tear down to quality... great plan. Dollars toward education won't fix irresponsible parents.... both the legal parents and the illegal parents.

So California's deficit problems are because of illegal immigrants and irresponsible parents?

You were not talking about the deficit, you were talking about the quality of school. Your response is off-topic (not off the original topic, but off the topic of what I replied to).

If you are going to play... play fair please.

So what do you blame for California's deficit problems? None of the above explanations as to the consequences of Prop 13 convince you that it is a failed tax policy?

My answer is in my previous post (one of them).... if I stated it here, I'd just be repeating myself.

I'm from Maryland originally and they live off much lower sales tax and lower income tax and Maryland just recently took over the title "Richest State" from New Jersey. More tax dollars is not the answer to California's deficit, less spending is the answer.

[DEDixon 39]

Mister Fancy said: My personal take: It's been a disaster for the state and remains grossly unfair. There's simply no justifiable reason that I pay 10 times the property tax as my neighbor (which I do). But more on my thoughts later.

That isn't unfair. You just haven't lived in your home as long, when you have, you'll get the same benefit. It is only unfair if you would never be able to get the same benefit. Your choice to move or stay whether it be to take another job or just to move into a different neighborhood. Regardless, the benefit is there for you if you are willing to do the time.

Post 26

just one caveat...(you don't have an issue with this?)

The biggest beneficiaries of Prop. 13 were not homeowners but businesses. The law curtailed assessments on all property, not just homes, and there is considerably more commercial property than residential. According to the sociologist Clarence Lo, author of a forthcoming book on tax revolts, California homeowners received just one-third of total tax relief in the first five years under Prop. 13. A whopping 57 percent of benefits went to owners of commercial and industrial property.

Again, off topic. You said it wasn't fair to you that your neighbor didn't pay the same taxes as you.

Please, this subject is complicated enough so let's keep it focused on homeowners. I think that is what most of us related to.

[mox 298]

Like giving homeless people in San Francisco "paychecks" for being homeless? (and wondering why there are more homeless rather than fewer)

So let's talk about that program.

Back before 2004, there was a pay for work program in place that payed homeless people up to just under $400/month, in exchange for work performed. Keep in mind that $400 was the MAXIMUM, and not everyone got it. It was not a handout, it was not welfare. It was pay for work done. The only exception was for disabled homeless people, many of whom were vets.

In 2004, the Mayor of San Francisco ended that program and reduced the benefit to $59/month. He also ended the work program. The result was that homelessness increased, drug use by the homeless increased, and instead of getting services in return for payments, the city of San Francisco got nothing.

So while I agree with you that it's completely ridiculous to hand out checks "for being homeless," first of all $59/month isn't even enough to live on, let alone be lucrative (i.e., people are not quitting their jobs to get these handouts), it also shows that social programs by government (in this case paying the homeless for work done) can work. It's very unfortunate that San Francisco, of all cities, was so short sighted.

[DEDixon 39]

Like giving homeless people in San Francisco "paychecks" for being homeless? (and wondering why there are more homeless rather than fewer)

So let's talk about that program.

Back before 2004, there was a pay for work program in place that payed homeless people up to just under $400/month, in exchange for work performed. Keep in mind that $400 was the MAXIMUM, and not everyone got it. It was not a handout, it was not welfare. It was pay for work done. The only exception was for disabled homeless people, many of whom were vets.

In 2004, the Mayor of San Francisco ended that program and reduced the benefit to $59/month. He also ended the work program. The result was that homelessness increased, drug use by the homeless increased, and instead of getting services in return for payments, the city of San Francisco got nothing.

So while I agree with you that it's completely ridiculous to hand out checks "for being homeless," first of all $59/month isn't even enough to live on, let alone be lucrative (i.e., people are not quitting their jobs to get these handouts), it also shows that social programs by government (in this case paying the homeless for work done) can work. It's very unfortunate that San Francisco, of all cities, was so short sighted.

Please provide links to all of your claims.

[mox 298]

Please provide links to all of your claims.

LOL. I live in California in the bay area. http://google.com is your friend if you care my claims.

[Ban Hammer 13,355]

Yeah, Prop 13 has been a disaster. I'm originally from Colorado, where we had a similar law called TABOR, the "Taxpayer Bill of Rights." It caps taxation to the rates of inflation and population increase. It's been a complete disaster, much like Prop 13. I'm all for lower taxes, but when you completely tie the hands of government to bring revenue in when it needs it the most, that's just bad fiscal policy.

I love California, but we've got some huge problems right now, and Prop 13 is one of the biggest. OTOH, I don't live in a nut job state like Kansas where science curriculum are practically based on biblical readings.

that's a small vocal minority - they don't speak for all of kansas. i'd appreciate it if you'd refrain from trying to paint everyone in kansas as a nut job, kthxbye.

[mox 298]

that's a small vocal minority - they don't speak for all of kansas. i'd appreciate it if you'd refrain from trying to paint everyone in kansas as a nut job, kthxbye.

Yeah well that small vocal minority speaks loudly enough to set your entire educational system back into the stone age.

I find it pretty funny too that you'll sling insults about California left and right, but take offense when I call Kansas out for being the fundamentalist house of horrors that it's become. If you can't take it, don't dish it, kkthxbye.

[DEDixon 39]

Please provide links to all of your claims.

LOL. I live in California in the bay area. http://google.com is your friend if you care my claims.

Thanks, but I'd rather just not believe you. And, living in the Bay Area doesn't make you an expert, I live there too and I can't remember what exactly were the effects of SF new policy. Seems if you had such a memory, finding the facts would not be so difficult.

[mox 298]

Thanks, but I'd rather just not believe you. And, living in the Bay Area doesn't make you an expert, I live there too and I can't remember what exactly were the effects of SF new policy. Seems if you had such a memory, finding the facts would not be so difficult.

And yet I will sleep like a baby tonight.

[DEDixon 39]

Thanks, but I'd rather just not believe you. And, living in the Bay Area doesn't make you an expert, I live there too and I can't remember what exactly were the effects of SF new policy. Seems if you had such a memory, finding the facts would not be so difficult.

And yet I will sleep like a baby tonight.

Just as I will.

[Caladan 19]

You know, no offense to the dear Californians, but every time I read about the various propositions and legislative procedural rules, it seems that your state fails at basic self-governance.

[mox 298]

You know, no offense to the dear Californians, but every time I read about the various propositions and legislative procedural rules, it seems that your state fails at basic self-governance.

You would be correct. To call our legislature incompetent would be an insult to incompetent people.

[Caladan 19]

It's the whole system! You can amend your constitution by proposition!! That's basic checks-and-balances epic fail.

[mox 298]

It's the whole system! You can amend your constitution by proposition!! That's basic checks-and-balances epic fail.

Well...sort of. There's 2 ways to amend the Constitution in CA. For minor changes, it can be done by proposition. This is why Prop 8 is being challenged in the courts right now. The argument is that it was too major of a change to be changed by proposition. Major changes are done through the legislature.

[Ban Hammer 13,355]

that's a small vocal minority - they don't speak for all of kansas. i'd appreciate it if you'd refrain from trying to paint everyone in kansas as a nut job, kthxbye.

Yeah well that small vocal minority speaks loudly enough to set your entire educational system back into the stone age.

I find it pretty funny too that you'll sling insults about California left and right, but take offense when I call Kansas out for being the fundamentalist house of horrors that it's become. If you can't take it, don't dish it, kkthxbye.

that small minority has little bearing on the schools in kansas

if you'd like, i'll be quite happy to call californians nutcases too to see how you like it