American men meeting Russian women in ........America?????

[Brad and Vika 129]

Lukashenko likes to make threats to the west about a union of the two countries...Russia and Belarus that is. Putin on the other hand is biding his time. It's like the constrictor waiting to swallow the rabit.

Ukraine....if Obama doesn't realize that's the key right now he's nuts. Iraq means nothing on the scale of world affairs right now compared to Ukraine. Germany put the screws to Ukraine in regards to the NATO MAP program last year, and if Germany pulls that stunt again it's going to result in a seperate alliance with the US, Poland, the Baltic countries, and Ukraine. Right now Russia is trying to pull NATO apart at the seams, and it seems to be working.

Here's two good links worth reading if you have the time.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7861248.stm

http://www.kommersant.com/p838631/r_528/foreign_relations/ <---older article, but not all that old.

[mox 298]

Ah good ol dictator Lukashenko....he's still thinks he can bring back the Soviet Union. Belarus....where else can you see statues of Lenin in almost every city you go to other than good ol repressive Belarus.

Every city I've been to in Russia has statues of Lenin. Most have been torn down, but many are kept up for historical purposes. Which I think is fine and good. Russia and the FSU countries have a tendency to bury their history, hence the saying that to learn about history in the West, you need a book, but to learn about history in Russia you need a shovel.

I don't know about the political climate in Belarus, but I doubt very seriously the populace would allow a slide back into Communism. The free market has taken hold in all of Eastern Europe. I don't see Communism as having a snow ball's chance in hell at this point.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Ah good ol dictator Lukashenko....he's still thinks he can bring back the Soviet Union. Belarus....where else can you see statues of Lenin in almost every city you go to other than good ol repressive Belarus.

Every city I've been to in Russia has statues of Lenin. Most have been torn down, but many are kept up for historical purposes. Which I think is fine and good. Russia and the FSU countries have a tendency to bury their history, hence the saying that to learn about history in the West, you need a book, but to learn about history in Russia you need a shovel.

I don't know about the political climate in Belarus, but I doubt very seriously the populace would allow a slide back into Communism. The free market has taken hold in all of Eastern Europe. I don't see Communism as having a snow ball's chance in hell at this point.

I'm not exactly sure what Belarus market institution would be called, but if it's not communism, it's socialism. Free market in Belarus is all but non existant other than hotels, restraunts, and a few odd ball industry's. Almost all farms...I would guess 90% or better are owned by the government. Small business have been squeezed so hard that business owners have given up.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html...20Aleksandr%20G.

"Risky Business in Belarus"

http://www.president.gov.by/en/press48069.html#doc

"Belarusian model of socially-targeted economy much similar to the Chinese one"

http://belarus.blogsome.com/2006/12/12/the...shenko-belarus/

[Brad and Vika 129]

Ah good ol dictator Lukashenko....he's still thinks he can bring back the Soviet Union. Belarus....where else can you see statues of Lenin in almost every city you go to other than good ol repressive Belarus.

Every city I've been to in Russia has statues of Lenin. Most have been torn down, but many are kept up for historical purposes. Which I think is fine and good. Russia and the FSU countries have a tendency to bury their history, hence the saying that to learn about history in the West, you need a book, but to learn about history in Russia you need a shovel.

I don't know about the political climate in Belarus, but I doubt very seriously the populace would allow a slide back into Communism. The free market has taken hold in all of Eastern Europe. I don't see Communism as having a snow ball's chance in hell at this point.

I'm not exactly sure what Belarus market institution would be called, but if it's not communism, it's socialism. Free market in Belarus is all but non existant other than hotels, restraunts, and a few odd ball industry's. Almost all farms...I would guess 90% or better are owned by the government. Small business have been squeezed so hard that business owners have given up.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html...20Aleksandr%20G.

"Risky Business in Belarus"

http://www.president.gov.by/en/press48069.html#doc

"Belarusian model of socially-targeted economy much similar to the Chinese one"

http://belarus.blogsome.com/2006/12/12/the...shenko-belarus/

It is socialist - no question about it. There are many businesses that are privately held though (albeit with a "golden share" to the government). The word is that business people should make sure the government knows them, but doesn't notice them. And there is a HUGE contingent that want communism to return, because they perceive that their lives were better, more prosperous, and more secure with that system. If you consider where they are socially (at least every one over 30) you can see why.

[K1researcher 0]

The country would not tolerate a return to old-style communism. This is a key factor to think about when discussing this. What is communism? The soviet Union was not Lenins communism, nor trotsy's. Maybe Stalin's for a few years ...

At any rate I have spoken with some hard line communists some who literally fought the great patriotic war, and while they yearn for the old days of communism, most understand that the nation could not revert to that state again.

However, how far is socialism from communism in reality? In the west we often think of Communism as being synonymous with dictatorship, which is not the case. Lenin, Marx, and even Hitler were from Socialist parties. One the temporary leadership is withdrawn from communist government it becomes much the same as socialism.

All that said .. i think the US should ally with Russia and take over Europe and make the frenchies speak Russian and the Italian speak Portuguese and everyone else speak finnish (cuz its freaking hard) muhahahahaha

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

If Lukashenko is to ever be taken down...gotten rid of, alot of it depends on how well Ukraine does in regards to it's economy and democracy. Ukraine is the only democratic Rus state right now and if Ukraine can succeed and prosper in the next few years, Belarusians will take that as a sign that democracy and capitalism can work. Ukraine is not autoractic, and it mirrors the west more than Belarus and Russia. Again Ukraine is the key and Putin knows this. When Russia starts giving out passports to Ukrainians...Ukraine can begin to worry. And Russia is pushing for this "dual passort" for Ukrainians. What this will do is give Putin a reason to "protect Russian citizens in the Crim" just like he did in Abkazhia and South Ossestia. Russia's lease of the naval base in Sevastapol runs out in 2017 and Putin is sweating this. He has pused for a extension of that lease but he has gotten a big no from Yushenko. Good for Ukraine is what I say.

Edited February 3, 2009 by Why_Me

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

If Lukashenko is to ever be taken down...gotten rid of, alot of it depends on how well Ukraine does in regards to it's economy and democracy. Ukraine is the only democratic Rus state right now and if Ukraine can succeed and prosper in the next few years, Belarusians will take that as a sign that democracy and capitalism can work. Ukraine is not autoractic, and it mirrors the west more than Belarus and Russia. Again Ukraine is the key and Putin knows this. When Russia starts giving out passports to Ukrainians...Ukraine can begin to worry. And Russia is pushing for this "dual passort" for Ukrainians. What this will do is give Putin a reason to "protect Russian citizens in the Crim" just like he did in Abkazhia and South Ossestia. Russia's lease of the naval base in Sevastapol runs out in 2017 and Putin is sweating this. He has pused for a extension of that lease but he has gotten a big no from Yushenko. Good for Ukraine is what I say.

http://www.unian.net/eng/news/news-274792.html <--- It looks like the land grab for eastern Ukraine has already accelerated.

[K1researcher 0]

If Lukashenko is to ever be taken down...gotten rid of, alot of it depends on how well Ukraine does in regards to it's economy and democracy. Ukraine is the only democratic Rus state right now and if Ukraine can succeed and prosper in the next few years, Belarusians will take that as a sign that democracy and capitalism can work. Ukraine is not autoractic, and it mirrors the west more than Belarus and Russia. Again Ukraine is the key and Putin knows this. When Russia starts giving out passports to Ukrainians...Ukraine can begin to worry. And Russia is pushing for this "dual passort" for Ukrainians. What this will do is give Putin a reason to "protect Russian citizens in the Crim" just like he did in Abkazhia and South Ossestia. Russia's lease of the naval base in Sevastapol runs out in 2017 and Putin is sweating this. He has pused for a extension of that lease but he has gotten a big no from Yushenko. Good for Ukraine is what I say.

http://www.unian.net/eng/news/news-274792.html <--- It looks like the land grab for eastern Ukraine has already accelerated.

I gotta call shenanigans on that article ... no sources its all speculation with an extreme ukrainian nationalistic tendency. I can tell you are very anti-Putin, but I think you are using a bit too much subjective reasoning especially with Abkazhia and South Ossestia. There are many more reasons as to that incursion and I rarely hear this reasoning except from the west where the news surrounding it was so polluted it was virtually worthless.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

If Lukashenko is to ever be taken down...gotten rid of, alot of it depends on how well Ukraine does in regards to it's economy and democracy. Ukraine is the only democratic Rus state right now and if Ukraine can succeed and prosper in the next few years, Belarusians will take that as a sign that democracy and capitalism can work. Ukraine is not autoractic, and it mirrors the west more than Belarus and Russia. Again Ukraine is the key and Putin knows this. When Russia starts giving out passports to Ukrainians...Ukraine can begin to worry. And Russia is pushing for this "dual passort" for Ukrainians. What this will do is give Putin a reason to "protect Russian citizens in the Crim" just like he did in Abkazhia and South Ossestia. Russia's lease of the naval base in Sevastapol runs out in 2017 and Putin is sweating this. He has pused for a extension of that lease but he has gotten a big no from Yushenko. Good for Ukraine is what I say.

http://www.unian.net/eng/news/news-274792.html <--- It looks like the land grab for eastern Ukraine has already accelerated.

I gotta call shenanigans on that article ... no sources its all speculation with an extreme ukrainian nationalistic tendency. I can tell you are very anti-Putin, but I think you are using a bit too much subjective reasoning especially with Abkazhia and South Ossestia. There are many more reasons as to that incursion and I rarely hear this reasoning except from the west where the news surrounding it was so polluted it was virtually worthless.

I am very anti Putin. But facts are facts....I personally don't know the entire facts behind the Georgia - Russia confllict...although Kosovo helped pave the way for that. Back to the Russian citizenship law....it's on the books.

http://www.thebulletin.us/articles/2009/01...94040876142.txt

http://www.loc.gov/lawweb/servlet/lloc_new...an%20Federation

http://www.armchairgeneral.com/ukraines-ru...-citizens.htm/2

http://topics.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/09/23...ion-ukrainians/

Edited February 3, 2009 by Why_Me

[Brad and Vika 129]

Enjoyed the article Why Me, thanks. Also - I warned you about the Putinists They will be coming out of the woodwork now.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Enjoyed the article Why Me, thanks. Also - I warned you about the Putinists They will be coming out of the woodwork now.

Derzhava <---That's a word most all educated Russians know. It has more than one meaning, but in the end it comes down to Russian hegemony. It's teachings are installed by the Russian Orthodox church, and they are furthered by whatever Russian dictator is calling the shots at the time. Presently it's Tsar Putin.

The terms "Rus'", "Kyivan Rus'", "Ruthenia" and "Ruthenian" as opposed to "Russia" and "Russian" are used to distinguish between the early mediaeval state with the centres in Kyiv and Novgorod and the independent duchies it disintegrated into on one hand, and the later state with the centre in Moscow on the other. The latter could be considered a distant descendant of the former yet the two are not identical. The confusion with the names is often purposefully used by Russian nationalists to lay claims on all political and spiritual heritage of Kyivan Rus'.

Edited February 4, 2009 by Why_Me

[K1researcher 0]

just fyi only the loc site is verified, but it is verified from an independent news agency and thus invalid ;-) (i have been nailed on that many times in my studies)

I love Putin, think he did wonders for the Country. Russia really was rough in the 90s, I had to have body guards around and hope someone didn't buy one of them off :-(

Under Putin the crime just plummeted and now its a wonderful place that I would even live (this was discussed thoroughly before the k-1 was done)

I know where you are coming from but after enough reading (rus and eng) I just dont see the Georgia action as wrong.

Now keep in mind I admire Putin but would not be a putinist as i dont really like ANY politician. But I cannot argue with the good he did for the country.

If Lukashenko is to ever be taken down...gotten rid of, alot of it depends on how well Ukraine does in regards to it's economy and democracy. Ukraine is the only democratic Rus state right now and if Ukraine can succeed and prosper in the next few years, Belarusians will take that as a sign that democracy and capitalism can work. Ukraine is not autoractic, and it mirrors the west more than Belarus and Russia. Again Ukraine is the key and Putin knows this. When Russia starts giving out passports to Ukrainians...Ukraine can begin to worry. And Russia is pushing for this "dual passort" for Ukrainians. What this will do is give Putin a reason to "protect Russian citizens in the Crim" just like he did in Abkazhia and South Ossestia. Russia's lease of the naval base in Sevastapol runs out in 2017 and Putin is sweating this. He has pused for a extension of that lease but he has gotten a big no from Yushenko. Good for Ukraine is what I say.

http://www.unian.net/eng/news/news-274792.html <--- It looks like the land grab for eastern Ukraine has already accelerated.

I gotta call shenanigans on that article ... no sources its all speculation with an extreme ukrainian nationalistic tendency. I can tell you are very anti-Putin, but I think you are using a bit too much subjective reasoning especially with Abkazhia and South Ossestia. There are many more reasons as to that incursion and I rarely hear this reasoning except from the west where the news surrounding it was so polluted it was virtually worthless.

I am very anti Putin. But facts are facts....I personally don't know the entire facts behind the Georgia - Russia confllict...although Kosovo helped pave the way for that. Back to the Russian citizenship law....it's on the books.

http://www.thebulletin.us/articles/2009/01...94040876142.txt

http://www.loc.gov/lawweb/servlet/lloc_new...an%20Federation

http://www.armchairgeneral.com/ukraines-ru...-citizens.htm/2

http://topics.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/09/23...ion-ukrainians/

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

just fyi only the loc site is verified, but it is verified from an independent news agency and thus invalid ;-) (i have been nailed on that many times in my studies)

I love Putin, think he did wonders for the Country. Russia really was rough in the 90s, I had to have body guards around and hope someone didn't buy one of them off :-(

Under Putin the crime just plummeted and now its a wonderful place that I would even live (this was discussed thoroughly before the k-1 was done)

I know where you are coming from but after enough reading (rus and eng) I just dont see the Georgia action as wrong.

Now keep in mind I admire Putin but would not be a putinist as i dont really like ANY politician. But I cannot argue with the good he did for the country.

I can't argue that Putin hasn't done alot for Russia. Russia needed a "pick me up" after the SU dissolved and Yeltsin came to power. The ruble was worthless, Yeltsin was an embaressment for Russians...and the moral there was very low.

But that's as far as it goes. Crime has went down...no need to worry about getting a bullet through your head unless your a journalist(or lawyer) who's critical of the Kremlin. Media in Russia? It's great if you like it government owned and censored. Putin is an abomination for every Russian who thought they would have an actual chance at a real democracy with actual freedom of speech. Let me throw Belarusians in there also seeing how it's the Kremlin that's financially supporting the last dictator in Europe. If it wasn't for the Kremlin (Putin) throwing money at Lukashenko, Luka would be broke by now seven times over. I wouldn't be suprised of Georgia overstepped their bounds in regards to getting their territory back. I beleive Bush installed some false hope for them. But when Russia offers citizenship to supposedly ethnic Russians in another ocuntry it usually puts up warning signs to said country(s). Just ask an ethinic Estonian.

I'm not sure what your studies in Russia cover, but if it's anything to do with politics then you know exactly what I'm talking about here. You ever hear of a radical group called "NASHI"? If not I reccomend you google it.

[K1researcher 0]

just fyi only the loc site is verified, but it is verified from an independent news agency and thus invalid ;-) (i have been nailed on that many times in my studies)

I love Putin, think he did wonders for the Country. Russia really was rough in the 90s, I had to have body guards around and hope someone didn't buy one of them off :-(

Under Putin the crime just plummeted and now its a wonderful place that I would even live (this was discussed thoroughly before the k-1 was done)

I know where you are coming from but after enough reading (rus and eng) I just dont see the Georgia action as wrong.

Now keep in mind I admire Putin but would not be a putinist as i dont really like ANY politician. But I cannot argue with the good he did for the country.

I can't argue that Putin hasn't done alot for Russia. Russia needed a "pick me up" after the SU dissolved and Yeltsin came to power. The ruble was worthless, Yeltsin was an embaressment for Russians...and the moral there was very low.

But that's as far as it goes. Crime has went down...no need to worry about getting a bullet through your head unless your a journalist(or lawyer) who's critical of the Kremlin. Media in Russia? It's great if you like it government owned and censored. Putin is an abomination for every Russian who thought they would have an actual chance at a real democracy with actual freedom of speech. Let me throw Belarusians in there also seeing how it's the Kremlin that's financially supporting the last dictator in Europe. If it wasn't for the Kremlin (Putin) throwing money at Lukashenko, Luka would be broke by now seven times over. I wouldn't be suprised of Georgia overstepped their bounds in regards to getting their territory back. I beleive Bush installed some false hope for them. But when Russia offers citizenship to supposedly ethnic Russians in another ocuntry it usually puts up warning signs to said country(s). Just ask an ethinic Estonian.

I'm not sure what your studies in Russia cover, but if it's anything to do with politics then you know exactly what I'm talking about here. You ever hear of a radical group called "NASHI"? If not I reccomend you google it.

I dunno there, I find the US media so polluted and propagandized there is little difference. I know what you are talking about but I do not have the anti-russian sentiments. I think Georgia is way out of line in assuming they have the right to conquer Abkhazia .. Putin saved them. I feel that US was WAY out of line in their response and should have aided Russia. So basically we come from the opposite side of the fence here. Politkovskaya's death can not be attributed directly to Putin. Any fanatical supporter of him could have done it. What is a real chance at democracy? Americans do not even get a real democracy. We place votes and hope the electoral college goes the way we vote. But in all reality its only a hoped. Then again we have little say over many of the laws passed and actions taken as the people deciding are "appointed". The last election not only felt rigged, but I did not feel my vote had any purpose as I knew long before casting my ballot what was happening. I see little difference in the freedoms in America as compared to Russia. With the exception of overly corrupt police its not much different. That said I like my country and enjoy living here for financial reasons ... not political :-)

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

just fyi only the loc site is verified, but it is verified from an independent news agency and thus invalid ;-) (i have been nailed on that many times in my studies)

I love Putin, think he did wonders for the Country. Russia really was rough in the 90s, I had to have body guards around and hope someone didn't buy one of them off :-(

Under Putin the crime just plummeted and now its a wonderful place that I would even live (this was discussed thoroughly before the k-1 was done)

I know where you are coming from but after enough reading (rus and eng) I just dont see the Georgia action as wrong.

Now keep in mind I admire Putin but would not be a putinist as i dont really like ANY politician. But I cannot argue with the good he did for the country.

I can't argue that Putin hasn't done alot for Russia. Russia needed a "pick me up" after the SU dissolved and Yeltsin came to power. The ruble was worthless, Yeltsin was an embaressment for Russians...and the moral there was very low.

But that's as far as it goes. Crime has went down...no need to worry about getting a bullet through your head unless your a journalist(or lawyer) who's critical of the Kremlin. Media in Russia? It's great if you like it government owned and censored. Putin is an abomination for every Russian who thought they would have an actual chance at a real democracy with actual freedom of speech. Let me throw Belarusians in there also seeing how it's the Kremlin that's financially supporting the last dictator in Europe. If it wasn't for the Kremlin (Putin) throwing money at Lukashenko, Luka would be broke by now seven times over. I wouldn't be suprised of Georgia overstepped their bounds in regards to getting their territory back. I beleive Bush installed some false hope for them. But when Russia offers citizenship to supposedly ethnic Russians in another ocuntry it usually puts up warning signs to said country(s). Just ask an ethinic Estonian.

I'm not sure what your studies in Russia cover, but if it's anything to do with politics then you know exactly what I'm talking about here. You ever hear of a radical group called "NASHI"? If not I reccomend you google it.

I dunno there, I find the US media so polluted and propagandized there is little difference. I know what you are talking about but I do not have the anti-russian sentiments. I think Georgia is way out of line in assuming they have the right to conquer Abkhazia .. Putin saved them. I feel that US was WAY out of line in their response and should have aided Russia. So basically we come from the opposite side of the fence here. Politkovskaya's death can not be attributed directly to Putin. Any fanatical supporter of him could have done it. What is a real chance at democracy? Americans do not even get a real democracy. We place votes and hope the electoral college goes the way we vote. But in all reality its only a hoped. Then again we have little say over many of the laws passed and actions taken as the people deciding are "appointed". The last election not only felt rigged, but I did not feel my vote had any purpose as I knew long before casting my ballot what was happening. I see little difference in the freedoms in America as compared to Russia. With the exception of overly corrupt police its not much different. That said I like my country and enjoy living here for financial reasons ... not political :-)

Georgia aside.... are you actully comparing democracy in Russia to the US?...lol?

Since when did Russia have an eledtion they didn't already know the outcome before the results were read? Since when were US governers "appointed" by the president of the US...sans the Russian oblast.

And Politkovskaya's death is one out of how may journalist in Russia the last 10 years? Putin can't always blame Berezovsky and/or Chechnyan mobsters....or can he?

When the White House buys all the major media outlets let me know please. When university's here pressure students and teachers to vote for a certain president or there will be a price to pay...let me know please. When the US puts restrictions on OSCE monitors for any election we have here...let me know please.

Just out of curiousity did you happen to read about Putin's reaction to Micheal Dell's question to Putin at the Davos conference?

I respect your arguments in regards to Georgia, but the rest of your post ....well it's like we are talking about two seperate Russia's. The one that Russophilles make excuses for, and the real one that we all know exist. =)