Note: Removing Inactive members from the Org Team

[Sinergy 3]

So no i dont think we should be held to a mod standard. being an org is voluntary...and we get nothing but grief...for the little bit of what we do, we report and point out violations of TOS and move topics. thats it, and PUBLICLY we get more ####### than the mods do.

Moderators are also a volunteer job, and they also get a lot of grief. But if what you're saying is true, that organizers take so much more ####### than mods, why do you think that is? Could it be because of the way a few of you have overstepped your authority?

if ppl want us to act better, or at the standard of mods, then members need to treat us better. its like respect, ppl want it, but they dont want to give it.

That's not how it works. You don't demand respect, you earn it.

I never sd mods are not voluntary, im very well aware of that, no need to educate me on what i dont need educated on.

and no, orgs get so much grief bc ppl only think they should listen to and have to deal with MODS. And the reason behind we get a tad more grief than the mods is, we are not mods, yet we have a bit more freedom of doing stuff to threads than reg members, so ppl look at orgs as members with some ability. and they DONT like that.

Edited December 22, 2008 by Sinergy

[jodee 30]

Kinda curious as to why this is STILL going on,..why doesn't it get dropped,..sooner people stop talking about it,..sooner topic go's away, less hostility=happier vj'ers

[pushbrk 12,883]

Kinda curious as to why this is STILL going on,..why doesn't it get dropped,..sooner people stop talking about it,..sooner topic go's away, less hostility=happier vj'ers

I'm guessing it hasn't been dropped because people still have things they want to say on the subject.

Just to clarify, I brought this up with the goal of having personal attacks on other members, by organizers, STOP. I dislike ANY personal attacks but I think when an "organizer" does it, the resulting reflection on the site is more severe than when a general member does. I think posts that include "you" statements in criticism of another member as their primary content, are harmful rather than helpful in the forums where members seek advice on the Visa Journey. When members see organizers doing this, they take it as an example of condoned behavior.

It is not my goal to manage the organizer's contributions beyond that one simply issue. I have no issue with how they do their organizing jobs.

If it were my site, Rebeccajo would lose her membership. It's not my site. It's not my mission to get her removed BECAUSE it's not my site and I know any such mission would be unsuccessful.

The Captain has indicated only the severe profane-like name calling personal attacks violate the TOS. I disagree but he's the Captain.

VJ members are going to feel badly about a lot of things to do with their visa journey. The worst things are unnecessary delays, rejected petitions and denied visas. I'm here to help minimize that. If I see that somebody needs to wise up in order to be successful, I'm going to continue to choose to tell them how I think they need to wise up to avoid one or more of the really BIG "fell badly) moments potentially in their future. If this doesn't sit well with them, so be it. It's better than the alternative I see them achieving. Self appointed admonishers can continue to beat their heads against walls complaining about how somebody's tender feelings might get hurt until they bleed. It doesn't make VJ a better place.

Whatever results from my original question in this thread is up to the Captain. It's his site to manage, not mine but as I often say, "Everybody's entitled to my opinion."

[mox 298]

I never sd mods are not voluntary, im very well aware of that, no need to educate me on what i dont need educated on.

Heh...I love passive-aggressive smileys. My point wasn't to educate you, it was to point out that the "volunteer" argument is a non-starter because everyone here, including the members, is a volunteer.

and no, orgs get so much grief bc ppl only think they should listen to and have to deal with MODS.

I can only speak for myself. I give organizers grief who overstep their bounds. As I said earlier, I have praised you specifically in public before, and I've also said that more organizers than not do a good job. In general I have no beef with you or most of the organizers who their jobs.

But you seem to be arguing both sides of the coin. On the one hand, you seem to want respect BECAUSE you are different than a regular member. On the other hand you still want to be treated like a regular member when it comes to a code of conduct. In my opinion you can't have it both ways. As a regular member I take a lot of ####### too. One of your organizer friends took great delight in rubbing my face in the failure of my "visa journey." And hey, whatever, it's not against the TOS so I didn't complain about it, I just dished it right back and got on with my life. Soft skins don't last long on teh intarwebs. So again I say, if you want some kind of respect for the job you do for VJ then you need to earn it. (I say "you" in the generic sense, not "you" specifically.)

And the reason behind we get a tad more grief than the mods is, we are not mods, yet we have a bit more freedom of doing stuff to threads than reg members, so ppl look at orgs as members with some ability. and they DONT like that.

By this logic, people should absolutely HATE moderators then, since they have even more "freedom of doing stuff" than even organizers. And yet the moderators seem to be pretty uniformly respected. I believe this is because moderators are held to a higher standard than members. I think there's probably some better "quality control" in their selection as well, which makes a big difference.

You had a great idea in an earlier post, Sin. I'd encourage you to get together with your fellow organizers and agree upon an organizer code of conduct, then pass it by and get it approved by Ewok. Change is always better when it comes from within.

Whatever results from my original question in this thread is up to the Captain. It's his site to manage, not mine but as I often say, "Everybody's entitled to my opinion."

Nobody is entitled to my opinion. It's a subscription-based service. You all owe me $19.95. I accept Paypal. Pay up beotches.

Edited December 22, 2008 by mox

[Sinergy 3]

Kinda curious as to why this is STILL going on,..why doesn't it get dropped,..sooner people stop talking about it,..sooner topic go's away, less hostility=happier vj'ers

I'm guessing it hasn't been dropped because people still have things they want to say on the subject.

Just to clarify, I brought this up with the goal of having personal attacks on other members, by organizers, STOP. I dislike ANY personal attacks but I think when an "organizer" does it, the resulting reflection on the site is more severe than when a general member does. I think posts that include "you" statements in criticism of another member as their primary content, are harmful rather than helpful in the forums where members seek advice on the Visa Journey. When members see organizers doing this, they take it as an example of condoned behavior.

It is not my goal to manage the organizer's contributions beyond that one simply issue. I have no issue with how they do their organizing jobs.

If it were my site, Rebeccajo would lose her membership. It's not my site. It's not my mission to get her removed BECAUSE it's not my site and I know any such mission would be unsuccessful.

The Captain has indicated only the severe profane-like name calling personal attacks violate the TOS. I disagree but he's the Captain.

VJ members are going to feel badly about a lot of things to do with their visa journey. The worst things are unnecessary delays, rejected petitions and denied visas. I'm here to help minimize that. If I see that somebody needs to wise up in order to be successful, I'm going to continue to choose to tell them how I think they need to wise up to avoid one or more of the really BIG "fell badly) moments potentially in their future. If this doesn't sit well with them, so be it. It's better than the alternative I see them achieving. Self appointed admonishers can continue to beat their heads against walls complaining about how somebody's tender feelings might get hurt until they bleed. It doesn't make VJ a better place.

Whatever results from my original question in this thread is up to the Captain. It's his site to manage, not mine but as I often say, "Everybody's entitled to my opinion."

first bold: a personal attack on becca

second bold: so its ok for you to insult and attack members but not for others

pushbrk...as i see it, you should stop before your ahead. you may be good and full of infor on immigration, even i will admit your very intelligent on this subject, but you have very poor ppl skills and should stay away from anything other than advising of immigration needs.

[pushbrk 12,883]

Kinda curious as to why this is STILL going on,..why doesn't it get dropped,..sooner people stop talking about it,..sooner topic go's away, less hostility=happier vj'ers

I'm guessing it hasn't been dropped because people still have things they want to say on the subject.

Just to clarify, I brought this up with the goal of having personal attacks on other members, by organizers, STOP. I dislike ANY personal attacks but I think when an "organizer" does it, the resulting reflection on the site is more severe than when a general member does. I think posts that include "you" statements in criticism of another member as their primary content, are harmful rather than helpful in the forums where members seek advice on the Visa Journey. When members see organizers doing this, they take it as an example of condoned behavior.

It is not my goal to manage the organizer's contributions beyond that one simply issue. I have no issue with how they do their organizing jobs.

If it were my site, Rebeccajo would lose her membership. It's not my site. It's not my mission to get her removed BECAUSE it's not my site and I know any such mission would be unsuccessful.

The Captain has indicated only the severe profane-like name calling personal attacks violate the TOS. I disagree but he's the Captain.

VJ members are going to feel badly about a lot of things to do with their visa journey. The worst things are unnecessary delays, rejected petitions and denied visas. I'm here to help minimize that. If I see that somebody needs to wise up in order to be successful, I'm going to continue to choose to tell them how I think they need to wise up to avoid one or more of the really BIG "fell badly) moments potentially in their future. If this doesn't sit well with them, so be it. It's better than the alternative I see them achieving. Self appointed admonishers can continue to beat their heads against walls complaining about how somebody's tender feelings might get hurt until they bleed. It doesn't make VJ a better place.

Whatever results from my original question in this thread is up to the Captain. It's his site to manage, not mine but as I often say, "Everybody's entitled to my opinion."

first bold: a personal attack on becca

second bold: so its ok for you to insult and attack members but not for others

pushbrk...as i see it, you should stop before your ahead. you may be good and full of infor on immigration, even i will admit your very intelligent on this subject, but you have very poor ppl skills and should stay away from anything other than advising of immigration needs.

No, it is not an attack on anybody. There's nothing at all personal in the statement. It doesn't even contain the words "you" or "is" or "does" etc. The statement is about what I would do and is included in a paragraph indicating it isn't up to me. It's an opinion about a consequence of actions discussed earlier and clearly displayed in this thread.

Apparently there are some differences of opinion on what constitutes a personal attack. I can live with that.

[Sinergy 3]

Kinda curious as to why this is STILL going on,..why doesn't it get dropped,..sooner people stop talking about it,..sooner topic go's away, less hostility=happier vj'ers

I'm guessing it hasn't been dropped because people still have things they want to say on the subject.

Just to clarify, I brought this up with the goal of having personal attacks on other members, by organizers, STOP. I dislike ANY personal attacks but I think when an "organizer" does it, the resulting reflection on the site is more severe than when a general member does. I think posts that include "you" statements in criticism of another member as their primary content, are harmful rather than helpful in the forums where members seek advice on the Visa Journey. When members see organizers doing this, they take it as an example of condoned behavior.

It is not my goal to manage the organizer's contributions beyond that one simply issue. I have no issue with how they do their organizing jobs.

If it were my site, Rebeccajo would lose her membership. It's not my site. It's not my mission to get her removed BECAUSE it's not my site and I know any such mission would be unsuccessful.

The Captain has indicated only the severe profane-like name calling personal attacks violate the TOS. I disagree but he's the Captain.

VJ members are going to feel badly about a lot of things to do with their visa journey. The worst things are unnecessary delays, rejected petitions and denied visas. I'm here to help minimize that. If I see that somebody needs to wise up in order to be successful, I'm going to continue to choose to tell them how I think they need to wise up to avoid one or more of the really BIG "fell badly) moments potentially in their future. If this doesn't sit well with them, so be it. It's better than the alternative I see them achieving. Self appointed admonishers can continue to beat their heads against walls complaining about how somebody's tender feelings might get hurt until they bleed. It doesn't make VJ a better place.

Whatever results from my original question in this thread is up to the Captain. It's his site to manage, not mine but as I often say, "Everybody's entitled to my opinion."

first bold: a personal attack on becca

second bold: so its ok for you to insult and attack members but not for others

pushbrk...as i see it, you should stop before your ahead. you may be good and full of infor on immigration, even i will admit your very intelligent on this subject, but you have very poor ppl skills and should stay away from anything other than advising of immigration needs.

No, it is not an attack on anybody. There's nothing at all personal in the statement. It doesn't even contain the words "you" or "is" or "does" etc. The statement is about what I would do and is included in a paragraph indicating it isn't up to me. It's an opinion about a consequence of actions discussed earlier and clearly displayed in this thread.

Apparently there are some differences of opinion on what constitutes a personal attack. I can live with that.

it is personal, you named an actual member, and plain out told her if this was your site youd have her membership removed, it was an attack and it was personal.

[pushbrk 12,883]

Kinda curious as to why this is STILL going on,..why doesn't it get dropped,..sooner people stop talking about it,..sooner topic go's away, less hostility=happier vj'ers

I'm guessing it hasn't been dropped because people still have things they want to say on the subject.

Just to clarify, I brought this up with the goal of having personal attacks on other members, by organizers, STOP. I dislike ANY personal attacks but I think when an "organizer" does it, the resulting reflection on the site is more severe than when a general member does. I think posts that include "you" statements in criticism of another member as their primary content, are harmful rather than helpful in the forums where members seek advice on the Visa Journey. When members see organizers doing this, they take it as an example of condoned behavior.

It is not my goal to manage the organizer's contributions beyond that one simply issue. I have no issue with how they do their organizing jobs.

If it were my site, Rebeccajo would lose her membership. It's not my site. It's not my mission to get her removed BECAUSE it's not my site and I know any such mission would be unsuccessful.

The Captain has indicated only the severe profane-like name calling personal attacks violate the TOS. I disagree but he's the Captain.

VJ members are going to feel badly about a lot of things to do with their visa journey. The worst things are unnecessary delays, rejected petitions and denied visas. I'm here to help minimize that. If I see that somebody needs to wise up in order to be successful, I'm going to continue to choose to tell them how I think they need to wise up to avoid one or more of the really BIG "fell badly) moments potentially in their future. If this doesn't sit well with them, so be it. It's better than the alternative I see them achieving. Self appointed admonishers can continue to beat their heads against walls complaining about how somebody's tender feelings might get hurt until they bleed. It doesn't make VJ a better place.

Whatever results from my original question in this thread is up to the Captain. It's his site to manage, not mine but as I often say, "Everybody's entitled to my opinion."

first bold: a personal attack on becca

second bold: so its ok for you to insult and attack members but not for others

pushbrk...as i see it, you should stop before your ahead. you may be good and full of infor on immigration, even i will admit your very intelligent on this subject, but you have very poor ppl skills and should stay away from anything other than advising of immigration needs.

No, it is not an attack on anybody. There's nothing at all personal in the statement. It doesn't even contain the words "you" or "is" or "does" etc. The statement is about what I would do and is included in a paragraph indicating it isn't up to me. It's an opinion about a consequence of actions discussed earlier and clearly displayed in this thread.

Apparently there are some differences of opinion on what constitutes a personal attack. I can live with that.

it is personal, you named an actual member, and plain out told her if this was your site youd have her membership removed, it was an attack and it was personal.

[mox 298]

it is personal, you named an actual member, and plain out told her if this was your site youd have her membership removed, it was an attack and it was personal.

Come on now. That's an incredibly broad interpretation. 80% of the VJ population would be guilty of "personal attacks" under that very wide net. I understand you're feeling stung by the criticism that organizers are taking, but honestly, this is picking nits of the most microscopic variety.

Now...who wants pie?

[TBoneTX 45,293]

Come on now. That's an incredibly broad interpretation. 80% of the VJ population would be guilty of "personal attacks" under that very wide net. I understand you're feeling stung by the criticism that organizers are taking, but honestly, this is picking nits of the most microscopic variety.

Now...who wants pie?

I agree with Mox, and, given the nature of this thread, the most appropriate answer to his question would be... uh... rhubarb.

[Marilyn. 340]

I am not sure what kind of authority some organizers are stepping over because we don't really have any authority.. all we can do is move threads.. and if you don't like where a thread was moved just PM a mod or Ewok and they can move it back.. no big deal ..

[Ban Hammer 13,342]

I am not sure what kind of authority some organizers are stepping over because we don't really have any authority.. all we can do is move threads.. and if you don't like where a thread was moved just PM a mod or Ewok and they can move it back.. no big deal ..

and that's absolutely unbearable to some apparently.

[Sinergy 3]

it is personal, you named an actual member, and plain out told her if this was your site youd have her membership removed, it was an attack and it was personal.

Come on now. That's an incredibly broad interpretation. 80% of the VJ population would be guilty of "personal attacks" under that very wide net. I understand you're feeling stung by the criticism that organizers are taking, but honestly, this is picking nits of the most microscopic variety.

Now...who wants pie?

you both want to yell and cry about personal attacks, but then do it, and i called it out, dont try and tip-toe around it after he does it himself.

bc he didnt say "you" he actually USED THE NAME of a member, he personally attacked her, had it been me, or god forbid charles, or any other organizer who sd that about you or push, you both would have pushed that report button.

[TBoneTX 45,293]

Rhubarb pie, anyone?

[Ban Hammer 13,342]

it is personal, you named an actual member, and plain out told her if this was your site youd have her membership removed, it was an attack and it was personal.

Come on now. That's an incredibly broad interpretation. 80% of the VJ population would be guilty of "personal attacks" under that very wide net. I understand you're feeling stung by the criticism that organizers are taking, but honestly, this is picking nits of the most microscopic variety.

Now...who wants pie?

you both want to yell and cry about personal attacks, but then do it, and i called it out, dont try and tip-toe around it after he does it himself.

bc he didnt say "you" he actually USED THE NAME of a member, he personally attacked her, had it been me, or god forbid charles, or any other organizer who sd that about you or push, you both would have pushed that report button.

if it was me, that would be alright. after all, i'm an evil organizer!