Note: Removing Inactive members from the Org Team

[pushbrk 13,043]

It is not anything personal . I needed to cleanup either members who have not been active in a long time or those members that were not using the org abilities.

How about removing organizers for repeatedly violating TOS? No, I didn't think so. Nevermind.

[Sinergy 3]

It is not anything personal . I needed to cleanup either members who have not been active in a long time or those members that were not using the org abilities.

How about removing organizers for repeatedly violating TOS? No, I didn't think so. Nevermind.

wow...you will never grow up will ya

[Captain Ewok 1,900]

It is not anything personal . I needed to cleanup either members who have not been active in a long time or those members that were not using the org abilities.

How about removing organizers for repeatedly violating TOS? No, I didn't think so. Nevermind.

I don't disagree actually. We can see how many (and for what) warnings members have had. If a member develops a pattern of being warned for problems or has a serious TOS violation then this is not a bad idea. That said, everyone makes a mistake from time to time and I understand that.

[pushbrk 13,043]

It is not anything personal . I needed to cleanup either members who have not been active in a long time or those members that were not using the org abilities.

How about removing organizers for repeatedly violating TOS? No, I didn't think so. Nevermind.

I don't disagree actually. We can see how many (and for what) warnings members have had. If a member develops a pattern of being warned for problems or has a serious TOS violation then this is not a bad idea. That said, everyone makes a mistake from time to time and I understand that.

When is the last time an organizer was "warned" for violating TOS? I'm sure I wouldn't know but I'm guessing it was longer ago than this evening. Yet, I've seen two of them from two different organizers tonight. One in this thread, if you're counting insulting other members.

[mox 298]

wow...you will never grow up will ya

Which actually brings up another point...why aren't organizers held to the same standards moderators are held to? Sorry Sinergy, I don't mean to pick on you, but I think this was a completely inappropriate way to answer a member, and yet it is SO very typical of the types of answers I see all the time from organizers.

I don't know what the feud is between Sinergy and pushbrk, but I for one think pushbrk has a valid point, and it's not a view that pushbrk and I are alone on. Since becoming a member of VJ, I've seen violation after violation by organizers. I've only just recently become vocal about it because it just never seems to get better. In fact it's only getting worse.

Here's what I propose:

- Hold organizers to the same standards that moderators are held to. Currently organizers have zero accountability for their actions. I rarely see a moderator reply to a gripe in some of the inappropriate ways that I see organizers reply.

- Form the organizers into "teams" who work under a moderator. For example, you have (I believe) 4 moderators right now, so form 4 teams and put each moderator in charge of a team.

- Give moderators the authority to "hire" and "fire" organizers, but also make them responsible for the actions of their organizers.

- Require that organizers post a specific reason for post moves so that posts don't just magically appear to get up and walk away on their own.

- Did I mention hold organizers to the same standards that moderators are held to?

I don't disagree actually. We can see how many (and for what) warnings members have had. If a member develops a pattern of being warned for problems or has a serious TOS violation then this is not a bad idea. That said, everyone makes a mistake from time to time and I understand that.

This is actually a pretty frustrating answer to read. I'm sure there is a private moderator forum, and if the moderators haven't been talking amongst themselves about organizer abuses then seriously #######??? Mistakes are made, sure, and hey bonus points when the organizer owns up to their mistake when it's made. But there are mistakes and then there are just piss-poor organizers. The most common abuse I've seen are the "drive-by" post moves where an organizer that you've never seen before has suddenly shown up in a forum (usually a regional forum) they have never posted in, and decides to exercise their authoritah. And they do it because they have no accountability.

Edited December 21, 2008 by mox

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Organizers are, we are told, regular members with special powers.

But those special powers are what sets them apart from us, the plebs of VJ.

I don't think most organizers quite understand that. They're not like us. They're higher up the VJ food chain than we are.

[mox 298]

Organizers are, we are told, regular members with special powers.

But those special powers are what sets them apart from us, the plebs of VJ.

I don't think most organizers quite understand that. They're not like us. They're higher up the VJ food chain than we are.

Bingo.

This is what I've been told in the past when I've complained about rude organizers: they are regular members, not "staff." Which is baloney.

If you are an organizer, then you need to hold yourself (and be expected to hold yourself) to a higher level. That means you need to hold your tongue at times. If this is a cramp on your "freedom of speech" then ask Ewok to remove your organizer privs and you can come back down into the general population muck with the rest of us.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

I agree. They are not us. If they were us, they wouldn't be organizers.

[Captain Ewok 1,900]

Organizers are, we are told, regular members with special powers.

But those special powers are what sets them apart from us, the plebs of VJ.

I don't think most organizers quite understand that. They're not like us. They're higher up the VJ food chain than we are.

Valid points. I am very clear with the mods that they should keep in mind their position when posting as it will reflect on themselves and the site. Abuse of power would result in a moderator potentially losing their position. I have not considered this as much with the organizers because they can not "suspend" or close topics -- however being able to move things does exert a degree of control I have probably underestimated.

I certainly am open to ideas that challenge the way I perceive things and in this case I agree and think you are right on some of the posts in this Thread. As a result I am going to implement the following new rules for organizers:

1) If an organizer is suspended for anything beyond the most casual of items (we all do stupid little things now and again) their Organizer status will be removed for no shorter then 60 days before we will consider reinstating it. Further suspensions (if reinstated) will result in no longer being able to be an Organizer.

2) When an Organizer moves a topic they will now be asked to post a reason why it was moved (this was informally a requirement before). I understand that some times people will forget however this is how things "need" to be done out of courtesy to members and to help clarify why things were moved.

3) If an Organizer moves a topic out of spite or otherwise abuses their power their Organizer status will be removed for no shorter then 60 days before we will consider reinstating it. Further abuse (if reinstated) will result in no longer being able to be an Organizer.

I will be PM'ing this to all the active Org Members and to all the Moderators (so that they are aware). I hope this seems reasonable and helps with your concerns.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Sounds good.

[jodee 30]

wow,..i am aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaallways here,...but have only moved threads on maybe 5 occasions,...and have never been warned or suspended.

TY!,...

[mox 298]

I hope this seems reasonable and helps with your concerns.

I think it's a good start, but it doesn't address accountability beyond what a normal member would be held accountable for.

I just think it should be policy that organizers are held to the same standards that moderators are held to. Even the lowest ranking Private in the Army is held to the same standards as the highest ranking General. So it should be for VJ "staff."

But it's a good start anyway, and thanks Ewok for your attention to the matter.

[Captain Ewok 1,900]

I have notified ALL Org Team members regarding the new rules. They are effective immediately.

[jodee 30]

All understood Cap'n.....thank you for all your hard work also!

[pushbrk 13,043]

I have notified ALL Org Team members regarding the new rules. They are effective immediately.

I don't see a problem with how organizers move things around. I'd like to see no more personal attacks on members by organizers. That was the point. That's what reflects badly on the ownership, IMO. I'm disappointed you didn't see fit to address that issue.