Note: Removing Inactive members from the Org Team

[mox 298]

you both want to yell and cry about personal attacks, but then do it, and i called it out, dont try and tip-toe around it after he does it himself.

bc he didnt say "you" he actually USED THE NAME of a member, he personally attacked her, had it been me, or god forbid charles, or any other organizer who sd that about you or push, you both would have pushed that report button.

Sin, you are being absolutely fracking ridiculous now. If you think he's making a personal attack against RJ, then press Report. If you think this post is a personal attack, press Report. You are beyond reason at this point.

Strawberry rhubarb for me please, TX.

[Sinergy 3]

you both want to yell and cry about personal attacks, but then do it, and i called it out, dont try and tip-toe around it after he does it himself.

bc he didnt say "you" he actually USED THE NAME of a member, he personally attacked her, had it been me, or god forbid charles, or any other organizer who sd that about you or push, you both would have pushed that report button.

Sin, you are being absolutely fracking ridiculous now. If you think he's making a personal attack against RJ, then press Report. If you think this post is a personal attack, press Report. You are beyond reason at this point.

Strawberry rhubarb for me please, TX.

It doesnt matter how you think about it, he whines about personal attacks, and then contiues to make them himself. How am i beyond reason? bc i dont think you and push deserve some kind of special treatment on this subject? bc you think if you say it in a calm non rude way its not an attack. IMO you and him are the ones beyond reason as if anyone disagrees with you, that person is either out of their mind or just nuts.

[TBoneTX 46,261]

Sin, you are being absolutely fracking ridiculous now. You are beyond reason at this point. Strawberry rhubarb for me please, TX.

Must agree 100% with Mox on this one. Out of strawberry, but raspberries seem to be flying through the air... is it about time to close this thread? Edited December 22, 2008 by TBoneTX

[john & jean 37]

People may not like my direct style and they may "feel" put down by my pointed advice about how to have a successful visa process but you will not see me directly personally insulting them.

I have never seen pushbrk insult another member in the manner that has been raised as accusation.

When I see that he has replied to a post, I intentionally read that thread so that I can learn something, and because I know that his replies will be concise. This applies even if the thread is otherwise of no interest to me. I would be far less interested in VJ if he did NOT post as often and as directly as he does.

And, "feel bad" versus "feel badly" is more a matter of form than meaning. However, I interpret "feel badly" to mean "using one's sense of touch in a less capable or efficient manner than another does."

T-Bone, you and Krikit have both said you find nothing wrong with Push's style. Fine and good.

But I've seen plenty of comments in threads where members indicated their feelings were either hurt or they felt put down by him. And I've seen him go after members who dared to disagree with him - especially female members.

Now, while this kind of behavior really does get to me, I can put up with it until he runs crying to Ewok about being persecuted. As I said before in this thread, if you can't take it then don't dish it out. I can give as good as I get and will continue to do so - Organizer or not. Perhaps I'm not really very smart - who knows. There are certain personalities that are just clinically toxic and the only way to save yourself from them is to eject them from your life. I'd probably be better off if I just learned to ignore him. Hard to do when he's pushing people around. Hard to do.

You can disagree with me if you like. I really don't care. I know what I've read and I'm not confused by it.

I too, always read anything that push,writes! Yes, he is in a Pissy mood sometimes, WHO ISN'T???

When I needed advice he was always there, and spot on. I am more than willing to overlook a bad mood, to get that!!!

My case was complicated, my wife is here!! THANKS TO PUSH.....

[Sinergy 3]

Sin, you are being absolutely fracking ridiculous now. You are beyond reason at this point. Strawberry rhubarb for me please, TX.

Must agree 100% with Mox on this one. Out of strawberry, but raspberries seem to be flying through the air... is it about time to close this thread?

thats not a shocker

[Sinergy 3]

People may not like my direct style and they may "feel" put down by my pointed advice about how to have a successful visa process but you will not see me directly personally insulting them.

I have never seen pushbrk insult another member in the manner that has been raised as accusation.

When I see that he has replied to a post, I intentionally read that thread so that I can learn something, and because I know that his replies will be concise. This applies even if the thread is otherwise of no interest to me. I would be far less interested in VJ if he did NOT post as often and as directly as he does.

And, "feel bad" versus "feel badly" is more a matter of form than meaning. However, I interpret "feel badly" to mean "using one's sense of touch in a less capable or efficient manner than another does."

T-Bone, you and Krikit have both said you find nothing wrong with Push's style. Fine and good.

But I've seen plenty of comments in threads where members indicated their feelings were either hurt or they felt put down by him. And I've seen him go after members who dared to disagree with him - especially female members.

Now, while this kind of behavior really does get to me, I can put up with it until he runs crying to Ewok about being persecuted. As I said before in this thread, if you can't take it then don't dish it out. I can give as good as I get and will continue to do so - Organizer or not. Perhaps I'm not really very smart - who knows. There are certain personalities that are just clinically toxic and the only way to save yourself from them is to eject them from your life. I'd probably be better off if I just learned to ignore him. Hard to do when he's pushing people around. Hard to do.

You can disagree with me if you like. I really don't care. I know what I've read and I'm not confused by it.

I too, always read anything that push,writes! Yes, he is in a Pissy mood sometimes, WHO ISN'T???

When I needed advice he was always there, and spot on. I am more than willing to overlook a bad mood, to get that!!!

My case was complicated, my wife is here!! THANKS TO PUSH.....

I agree...however we are not talking about bad moods, heck most the women on this site could get away with PMS moods...however we are talking about plain out personal attacks.....thats not a bad mood, thats what he does when ppl dont agree with him.

Look ive sd what i needed to, and i can continue until this runs into 100 pages...but its going to get us nowhere. MOX, your clearly never going to agree and ill never agree with you...so i say we end this on our part. I have much more to worry about now, i just got a call that my mom may be havng a heartattack, i have to sit by the phone now and wait for the dreaded or good phone call, whichever comes after her EKG. so i just dont feel like continuing this.

[mox 298]

I'm very sorry to hear it Sin, I hope you get good news. Keep friends and family close during this time, they'll help you through it.

[rebeccajo 14]

Tara - I'll be watcing this thread this afternoon to see what happens with your Mom. Sending good karma your way.

As for agreeing to disagree on this subject, my guess is that is what all of us are going to have to do. Which means that behaviors are not going to change. Those who believe that everybody is entitled to their opinion are going to continue to do that. Me - I'm just going to hit the Report button everytime I see a great beacon of VJ light trying to save some feckless soul from themselves.

Now, on the other hand, when I see bad advice being given out, I'm going to step in and work on that. And that, my dear friends, shall be interesting. Because then we will see if it's really a problem with an Organizer violating the TOS, or a zealot who detests having it laid out that he can't possibly know it all.

Edited December 22, 2008 by rebeccajo

[morocco4ever 63]

Now, on the other hand, when I see bad advice being given out, I'm going to step in and work on that. And that, my dear friends, shall be interesting. Because then we will see if it's really a problem with an Organizer violating the TOS, or a zealot who detests having it laid out that he can't possibly know it all.

Here here!

Seriously do people get their noses bent out of joint for moving threads? Big freaking deal! Okay I admit that I haven't read this entire thread, but why do people make such a big deal out of the minor things? As for push, well at times he gives out good advice, and at times he gives out bad. But what I find is he gets his panties in a bunch over silly things like misspelling. GEEZ! One other thing that bugs me about him is that he expects everyone to think and feel as he does, and if you can't or don't he categorizes you as beneath him. That's just BS.

As for the organizers....YOU ROCK! Thanks for your help and time on this forum.

[TBoneTX 46,261]

I'm very sorry to hear it Sin, I hope you get good news. Keep friends and family close during this time, they'll help you through it.

Agree with Mox 100% on this one, si man.

[diadromous mermaid 36]

What's implied in a statement like yours, pushbrk, that if it were your site rebeccajo would not have member privilege, is that she has done something that would prohibit her from being a member. Unless you explained elsewhere what it is that you claim she has done, and unless it is proven that she has done what you claim, it is unfair to make such a statement.

My recommendation is that rather than write that it is simply an opinion, you should qualify why you are entitled to have it. You've not shared what gives you reason to believe this, unless I missed it!

This borders on improper conduct, in my opinion. And the above explanation is why I am ENTITLED to have it.

Kinda curious as to why this is STILL going on,..why doesn't it get dropped,..sooner people stop talking about it,..sooner topic go's away, less hostility=happier vj'ers

I'm guessing it hasn't been dropped because people still have things they want to say on the subject.

Just to clarify, I brought this up with the goal of having personal attacks on other members, by organizers, STOP. I dislike ANY personal attacks but I think when an "organizer" does it, the resulting reflection on the site is more severe than when a general member does. I think posts that include "you" statements in criticism of another member as their primary content, are harmful rather than helpful in the forums where members seek advice on the Visa Journey. When members see organizers doing this, they take it as an example of condoned behavior.

It is not my goal to manage the organizer's contributions beyond that one simply issue. I have no issue with how they do their organizing jobs.

If it were my site, Rebeccajo would lose her membership. It's not my site. It's not my mission to get her removed BECAUSE it's not my site and I know any such mission would be unsuccessful.

The Captain has indicated only the severe profane-like name calling personal attacks violate the TOS. I disagree but he's the Captain.

VJ members are going to feel badly about a lot of things to do with their visa journey. The worst things are unnecessary delays, rejected petitions and denied visas. I'm here to help minimize that. If I see that somebody needs to wise up in order to be successful, I'm going to continue to choose to tell them how I think they need to wise up to avoid one or more of the really BIG "fell badly) moments potentially in their future. If this doesn't sit well with them, so be it. It's better than the alternative I see them achieving. Self appointed admonishers can continue to beat their heads against walls complaining about how somebody's tender feelings might get hurt until they bleed. It doesn't make VJ a better place.

Whatever results from my original question in this thread is up to the Captain. It's his site to manage, not mine but as I often say, "Everybody's entitled to my opinion."

first bold: a personal attack on becca

second bold: so its ok for you to insult and attack members but not for others

pushbrk...as i see it, you should stop before your ahead. you may be good and full of infor on immigration, even i will admit your very intelligent on this subject, but you have very poor ppl skills and should stay away from anything other than advising of immigration needs.

No, it is not an attack on anybody. There's nothing at all personal in the statement. It doesn't even contain the words "you" or "is" or "does" etc. The statement is about what I would do and is included in a paragraph indicating it isn't up to me. It's an opinion about a consequence of actions discussed earlier and clearly displayed in this thread.

Apparently there are some differences of opinion on what constitutes a personal attack. I can live with that.

[Mags 112]

Thread closed for review. Captain Ewok will be along at some point with updates.