Rasmussen Poll

[HAL 9000 96]

So where do we go from here in terms of thinking?

Why dont you apply the anti Bush rhetoric you spew everyday all day to your beloved one?

Because Obama hasn't taken the Oath of Office yet.

Well... whether or not people feel that Obama is involved can't really be taken as a barometer of how he is personally perceived. I think there are a lot of people who hold the view that politics (and politicians) is a generally corrupt and dirty business - and no politician, regardless of how liberal, conservative or otherwise idealistic they are can entirely escape from that.

Furthermore, because one Chicago politician is corrupt it hardly means that they all are, so this guilt by association #######, in the absence of actual evidence isn't exactly convincing - regardless of how much people want to gossip about it.

Its more of the same apparent bitter sore-loser-itis, unfortunately.

Glad to see that back in the real world, Obama looks like he's going to be addressing national issues with an even-handed approach that must really rile up the more lunatic fringes as well as those that just simply can't overcome their electoral grief.

[jundp 191]

* Longest run on sentence, evar.

Not a run-on, Matt, very long and involved, but not a run-on

He came out of the dirtiest city machine out there - no way in hell he is clean.

I respectfully disagree, Dev. I'd say NOLA is the dirtiest city machine out there

[HAL 9000 96]

So where do we go from here in terms of thinking?

Why dont you apply the anti Bush rhetoric you spew everyday all day to your beloved one?

After seeing piccies of Mrs Hal, methinks Dubya is the last thing he talks to her about...

Yeah... Mrs HAL 9000

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

Its pretty naive for anyone to think that Obama didnt know what was going on with his senate seat. The one he worked so hard for, my god! Obama did alot of funky ####### to get that seat and for him or anyone else to say he was ingnorant of what was going on, is a bit much to swallow.

[no name 1]

Well... whether or not people feel that Obama is involved can't really be taken as a barometer of how he is personally perceived. I think there are a lot of people who hold the view that politics (and politicians) is a generally corrupt and dirty business - and no politician, regardless of how liberal, conservative or otherwise idealistic they are can entirely escape from that.

Furthermore, because one Chicago politician is corrupt it hardly means that they all are, so this guilt by association #######, in the absence of actual evidence isn't exactly convincing - regardless of how much people want to gossip about it.

Um, Blago's not the only one.

Illinois' Legacy of Corruption (thanks HuffPo)

Edited December 18, 2008 by illumine

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Its pretty naive for anyone to think that Obama didnt know what was going on with his senate seat. The one he worked so hard for, my god! Obama did alot of funky ####### to get that seat and for him or anyone else to say he was ingnorant of what was going on, is a bit much to swallow.

Well without anything actually specific - all we have is innuendo and speculation.

[HAL 9000 96]

Well... whether or not people feel that Obama is involved can't really be taken as a barometer of how he is personally perceived. I think there are a lot of people who hold the view that politics (and politicians) is a generally corrupt and dirty business - and no politician, regardless of how liberal, conservative or otherwise idealistic they are can entirely escape from that.

Furthermore, because one Chicago politician is corrupt it hardly means that they all are, so this guilt by association #######, in the absence of actual evidence isn't exactly convincing - regardless of how much people want to gossip about it.

Um, Blago's not the only one.

Illinois' Legacy of Corruption (a HuffPo link!)

Completely agree. Lets roll some Chicago heads, starting with Bush's best friend in Chicago, Mayor Daley, and on to County Board President Todd Stroger.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Well... whether or not people feel that Obama is involved can't really be taken as a barometer of how he is personally perceived. I think there are a lot of people who hold the view that politics (and politicians) is a generally corrupt and dirty business - and no politician, regardless of how liberal, conservative or otherwise idealistic they are can entirely escape from that.

Furthermore, because one Chicago politician is corrupt it hardly means that they all are, so this guilt by association #######, in the absence of actual evidence isn't exactly convincing - regardless of how much people want to gossip about it.

Um, Blago's not the only one.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/12/09/i...p_n_149643.html

Yes I know - they had another governor go to jail. So what?

Generally speaking we don't judge one individual on the basis of what another person does - and unless specific allegations of wrongdoing are brought against Obama, there really isn't a whole lot of material with which to judge him.

[no name 1]

Which is why I ask... where are we to take our thinking other than the nuanced and perhaps not so nuanced evidence that Obama is dirty?

You can think for yourself, doesn't matter either way to me. I would hope you would.

He came out of the dirtiest city machine out there - no way in hell he is clean.

I respectfully disagree, Dev. I'd say NOLA is the dirtiest city machine out there

Perhaps!

Does NOLA have 3 ex-govs jailed since the 70s tho?

Well... whether or not people feel that Obama is involved can't really be taken as a barometer of how he is personally perceived. I think there are a lot of people who hold the view that politics (and politicians) is a generally corrupt and dirty business - and no politician, regardless of how liberal, conservative or otherwise idealistic they are can entirely escape from that.

Furthermore, because one Chicago politician is corrupt it hardly means that they all are, so this guilt by association #######, in the absence of actual evidence isn't exactly convincing - regardless of how much people want to gossip about it.

Um, Blago's not the only one.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/12/09/i...p_n_149643.html

Yes I know - they had another governor go to jail. So what?

Generally speaking we don't judge one individual on the basis of what another person does - and unless specific allegations of wrongdoing are brought against Obama, there really isn't a whole lot of material with which to judge him.

Not one, but 2, and that's only in the last 35 years.

Edited December 18, 2008 by illumine

[HAL 9000 96]

For those familiar with the area of Chicago (um, like those that live there, um... like me!) where President-elect Obama got his political bearings, we can see that it is quite separate of mainstream Chicago politics.

For those that are actually interested in guilt-free Googling- Hyde Park/Kenwood.

Which is why I ask... where are we to take our thinking other than the nuanced and perhaps not so nuanced evidence that Obama is dirty?

You can think for yourself, doesn't matter either way to me. I would hope you would.

Like I said, other than nuanced comments, what would you have your readers think?

And NOLA is a city, not a state.

[no name 1]

For those familiar with the area of Chicago (um, like those that live there, um... like me!) where President-elect Obama got his political bearings, we can see that it is quite separate of mainstream Chicago politics.

For those that are actually interested in guilt-free Googling- Hyde Park/Kenwood.

?

So? They report to Daley & eventually Blago, correct?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Not one, but 2, and that's only in the last 35 years.

Clarification aside - that doesn't really change my point.

You're still essentially saying that Obama must be criminally corrupt because other Chicago politicians were. Thats not exactly material for an indictment.

[no name 1]

For those familiar with the area of Chicago (um, like those that live there, um... like me!) where President-elect Obama got his political bearings, we can see that it is quite separate of mainstream Chicago politics.

For those that are actually interested in guilt-free Googling- Hyde Park/Kenwood.

Which is why I ask... where are we to take our thinking other than the nuanced and perhaps not so nuanced evidence that Obama is dirty?

You can think for yourself, doesn't matter either way to me. I would hope you would.

Like I said, other than nuanced comments, what would you have your readers think?

And NOLA is a city, not a state.

I had no idea! Is Chi-town a state too?

[HAL 9000 96]

For those familiar with the area of Chicago (um, like those that live there, um... like me!) where President-elect Obama got his political bearings, we can see that it is quite separate of mainstream Chicago politics.

For those that are actually interested in guilt-free Googling- Hyde Park/Kenwood.

?

So? They report to Daley & eventually Blago, correct?

Not really. Hyde Park/Kenwood typically behaves outside the City Machine. Local aldermen/women don't tend to do so well for long due to this.

[no name 1]

Not one, but 2, and that's only in the last 35 years.

Clarification aside - that doesn't really change my point.

You're still essentially saying that Obama must be criminally corrupt because other Chicago politicians were. Thats not exactly material for an indictment.

I did? I said the Chicago machine is dirty. He didn't get to where he is by playing clean. No politician does. He happens to come from a dirtier place than others (except maybe NOLA, a city, not a state in the South).