Let GM Fail

[Chica Yeyé 41]

Me needs to run over to your blog... I was at Sephora yesterday...

DO IT!!!!

[kaydee457 13]

Oh, and those skills would be painting, welding, milling and machining and many other CAD controlled operations that were once performed by individual "skilled" workers.......

Engineers welding? Perhaps you mean designing and troubleshooting the machines that paint, weld, mill, and drill.

(Production) Engineers write the code to operate the welding machines on the assembly line......If welding operations are complex, and likely to be limited to a few items then a "Welding Machine Operator" may be tasked to set up the operation in accordance with a set of plans or drawings.

If it's an operation to be done repetitively over a long production run then likely it will have a dedicated machine and it will use code written and tested by engineers and will require no supervision or control beyond inspection.

Most operations in the making of automobiles are automated through Computer Operated robotics these days. Assemblers on the line are "skilled" only in assembly of major components.

Very good. For the engineers, that is.

Very bad for those that work the assembly line, being the first line of human QC and QA. I'd be a little bit less financially condescending since code can be automated, verified, and executed by computers as well. Karma has a nasty little way of biting the arrogant in the #######.

Don't see where I was condescending. It's just a fact in manufacturing. CNC machinery is used in every aspect of manufacturing these days and the "skills" of yesterday have lesser importance. Unions tend to want to place a person, say on that was "skilled" in welding to oversee machine operations. Necessary? I'll let you decide.......

BTW, there are applications that will write subordinate code for CNC machinery based on certain inputs. The bulk of the effort is integration of the process, not in the writing of the code itself. The languages are heavily ladened with Macro's and "Canned" routines to aid in the development, and many of the new applications are graphical in nature allowing for process flows right on your PC screen. This aids in visualizing the task.

[tsunamihart 0]

Autoworkers who are skilled and reliable will have to add resourceful to their repertoire to stay viable in a contracting economy. There are just too many autoworkers and zippo demand for their product.

Well, here's a common misconception about UAW workers....They no longer possess "skills" and are relegated to mostly final assembly, with unremarkable "skills".......but still command high wages for "skills" long replaced by robotic arms...

The "skills" have been relegated to programmmer's, engineer's and other white collar jobs which are non-union.

Long gone are the welders, painter's, tin-knockers, and even the machinists that once were required and needed to build a car.....

Anyone, with minimal knowledge can perform the same repetitive tasks with minimal training.

Out of curiosity... what skills would those be that are passed on to even higher paid programmers and engineers that can use apostrophes appropriately?

Touche...I sometimes use apostrophies inappropriately.....Doesn't make me a bad engineer though.....

Oh, and those skills would be painting, welding, milling and machining and many other CAD controlled operations that were once performed by individual "skilled" workers.......

Entitlements yo, er I mean yay, your signature is a joke, so if you're an Obama supporter you're a socialist??? So you're a conservative Republican does that mean you support the uneducated in menial jobs ala Ms. Palin? Do you know that Africa is not a country? Please engage cortex first. Your logic and your posts are just sorry.

Noobs.....

er, uh Noobs...I've been here longer then you NOOB

[HAL 9000 96]

Oh, and those skills would be painting, welding, milling and machining and many other CAD controlled operations that were once performed by individual "skilled" workers.......

Engineers welding? Perhaps you mean designing and troubleshooting the machines that paint, weld, mill, and drill.

(Production) Engineers write the code to operate the welding machines on the assembly line......If welding operations are complex, and likely to be limited to a few items then a "Welding Machine Operator" may be tasked to set up the operation in accordance with a set of plans or drawings.

If it's an operation to be done repetitively over a long production run then likely it will have a dedicated machine and it will use code written and tested by engineers and will require no supervision or control beyond inspection.

Most operations in the making of automobiles are automated through Computer Operated robotics these days. Assemblers on the line are "skilled" only in assembly of major components.

Very good. For the engineers, that is.

Very bad for those that work the assembly line, being the first line of human QC and QA. I'd be a little bit less financially condescending since code can be automated, verified, and executed by computers as well. Karma has a nasty little way of biting the arrogant in the #######.

Don't see where I was condescending. It's just a fact in manufacturing. CNC machinery is used in every aspect of manufacturing these days and the "skills" of yesterday have lesser importance. Unions tend to want to place a person, say on that was "skilled" in welding to oversee machine operations. Necessary? I'll let you decide.......

BTW, there are applications that will write subordinate code for CNC machinery based on certain inputs. The bulk of the effort is integration of the process, not in the writing of the code itself. The languages are heavily ladened with Macro's and "Canned" routines to aid in the development, and many of the new applications are graphical in nature allowing for process flows right on your PC screen. This aids in visualizing the task.

No need to be defensive. Although perhaps you could start thinking more about salary level and cost of living in this country before accusing assembly line workers of making too much money. Specially if you are a Republican that is having a hard time accepting increasing taxes on earners at the 250,000/year mark and higher- although you seriously confuse 250,000 with lower numbers. Its hard to believe a good engineer would have issues with cold, hard numbers.

[kaydee457 13]

Oh, and those skills would be painting, welding, milling and machining and many other CAD controlled operations that were once performed by individual "skilled" workers.......

Engineers welding? Perhaps you mean designing and troubleshooting the machines that paint, weld, mill, and drill.

(Production) Engineers write the code to operate the welding machines on the assembly line......If welding operations are complex, and likely to be limited to a few items then a "Welding Machine Operator" may be tasked to set up the operation in accordance with a set of plans or drawings.

If it's an operation to be done repetitively over a long production run then likely it will have a dedicated machine and it will use code written and tested by engineers and will require no supervision or control beyond inspection.

Most operations in the making of automobiles are automated through Computer Operated robotics these days. Assemblers on the line are "skilled" only in assembly of major components.

Very good. For the engineers, that is.

Very bad for those that work the assembly line, being the first line of human QC and QA. I'd be a little bit less financially condescending since code can be automated, verified, and executed by computers as well. Karma has a nasty little way of biting the arrogant in the #######.

Don't see where I was condescending. It's just a fact in manufacturing. CNC machinery is used in every aspect of manufacturing these days and the "skills" of yesterday have lesser importance. Unions tend to want to place a person, say on that was "skilled" in welding to oversee machine operations. Necessary? I'll let you decide.......

BTW, there are applications that will write subordinate code for CNC machinery based on certain inputs. The bulk of the effort is integration of the process, not in the writing of the code itself. The languages are heavily ladened with Macro's and "Canned" routines to aid in the development, and many of the new applications are graphical in nature allowing for process flows right on your PC screen. This aids in visualizing the task.

No need to be defensive. Although perhaps you could start thinking more about salary level and cost of living in this country before accusing assembly line workers of making too much money. Specially if you are a Republican that is having a hard time accepting increasing taxes on earners at the 250,000/year mark and higher- although you seriously confuse 250,000 with lower numbers. Its hard to believe a good engineer would have issues with cold, hard numbers.

The fact is that on average autoworkers (assembly line workers) make 45/hour, with benefits add 15/hour.....

The auto industry says that another 10/hour burden to support the retirees......

(can't find the source but I read this on Yahoo this morning)

So for every worker on the line, the auto industry (Unionized UAW) costs $70/hour. The plants in the South of course aren't burdened with the legacy retiree costs so of course they're more competitive. But they also don't have the same benefits or salary range for doing the same work.

Now for an assembly line worker I think 45/hour is probaly twice the National Average for similarly skilled workers. That's the source of contention in the bailout talks. At 40/hour that's $83k a year. Pretty good for a line worker.

Republicans want wage concessions from the unions to bring Detroit workers in line with those auto workers in the South. They also want the UAW to uncouple the auto companies from the high cost of the legacy benefits, particularly the medical costs.

Some Republicans can only see this achieved by allowing them to go bankrupt and alowing the courts to handle the unions.

[Saddle Bronc 124]

Bush is now considering using some of the $700 billion already allocated for bailing out the FM's and banks to bail out automakers

[HAL 9000 96]

Oh, and those skills would be painting, welding, milling and machining and many other CAD controlled operations that were once performed by individual "skilled" workers.......

Engineers welding? Perhaps you mean designing and troubleshooting the machines that paint, weld, mill, and drill.

(Production) Engineers write the code to operate the welding machines on the assembly line......If welding operations are complex, and likely to be limited to a few items then a "Welding Machine Operator" may be tasked to set up the operation in accordance with a set of plans or drawings.

If it's an operation to be done repetitively over a long production run then likely it will have a dedicated machine and it will use code written and tested by engineers and will require no supervision or control beyond inspection.

Most operations in the making of automobiles are automated through Computer Operated robotics these days. Assemblers on the line are "skilled" only in assembly of major components.

Very good. For the engineers, that is.

Very bad for those that work the assembly line, being the first line of human QC and QA. I'd be a little bit less financially condescending since code can be automated, verified, and executed by computers as well. Karma has a nasty little way of biting the arrogant in the #######.

Don't see where I was condescending. It's just a fact in manufacturing. CNC machinery is used in every aspect of manufacturing these days and the "skills" of yesterday have lesser importance. Unions tend to want to place a person, say on that was "skilled" in welding to oversee machine operations. Necessary? I'll let you decide.......

BTW, there are applications that will write subordinate code for CNC machinery based on certain inputs. The bulk of the effort is integration of the process, not in the writing of the code itself. The languages are heavily ladened with Macro's and "Canned" routines to aid in the development, and many of the new applications are graphical in nature allowing for process flows right on your PC screen. This aids in visualizing the task.

No need to be defensive. Although perhaps you could start thinking more about salary level and cost of living in this country before accusing assembly line workers of making too much money. Specially if you are a Republican that is having a hard time accepting increasing taxes on earners at the 250,000/year mark and higher- although you seriously confuse 250,000 with lower numbers. Its hard to believe a good engineer would have issues with cold, hard numbers.

The fact is that on average autoworkers (assembly line workers) make 45/hour, with benefits add 15/hour.....

The auto industry says that another 10/hour burden to support the retirees......

(can't find the source but I read this on Yahoo this morning)

So for every worker on the line, the auto industry (Unionized UAW) costs $70/hour. The plants in the South of course aren't burdened with the legacy retiree costs so of course they're more competitive. But they also don't have the same benefits or salary range for doing the same work.

Now for an assembly line worker I think 45/hour is probaly twice the National Average for similarly skilled workers. That's the source of contention in the bailout talks. At 40/hour that's $83k a year. Pretty good for a line worker.

Republicans want wage concessions from the unions to bring Detroit workers in line with those auto workers in the South. They also want the UAW to uncouple the auto companies from the high cost of the legacy benefits, particularly the medical costs.

Some Republicans can only see this achieved by allowing them to go bankrupt and alowing the courts to handle the unions.

Don't worry too much. Then we can shift the burden of the complaining to workers in the same job description averaging (with all benefits) less than $20/hr and think of how wonderful that will be for the microeconomic climate of the US.

Legacy workers, much like outdated retrograde ideals, are retiring eventually.

[kaydee457 13]

Don't worry too much. Then we can shift the burden of the complaining to workers in the same job description averaging (with all benefits) less than $20/hr and think of how wonderful that will be for the microeconomic climate of the US.

Legacy workers, much like outdated retrograde ideals, are retiring eventually.

Well, everyone's ignoring the fact that consumers have turned off and tuned out Detroit so beyond their legacy costs to retirees, high cost of labor to active employees, they have an image problem of their own making........

[HAL 9000 96]

Don't worry too much. Then we can shift the burden of the complaining to workers in the same job description averaging (with all benefits) less than $20/hr and think of how wonderful that will be for the microeconomic climate of the US.

Legacy workers, much like outdated retrograde ideals, are retiring eventually.

Well, everyone's ignoring the fact that consumers have turned off and tuned out Detroit so beyond their legacy costs to retirees, high cost of labor to active employees, they have an image problem of their own making........

Which they can counteract by shifting production to a more consumer-oriented product. These car makers did market the cars they can't sell now- but consumers have always been the ones with the buying power.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

AJ is a US citizen you didiot.

Are you sure?

I just sent Len my certificate of live birth... wait, ooops, it doesn't say "birth certificate", doh!

[bhajishah 4]

Farm equipment doing very well. Until China learns how to make JOHN DEERES and etc.

Cheney ####### says we will trigger another depression if we dont bail the big jokers out.???????? sha blah

[Chica Yeyé 41]

AJ is a US citizen you didiot.

Are you sure?

I just sent Len my certificate of live birth... wait, ooops, it doesn't say "birth certificate", doh!

WHAT? I thought it was a collection of nekkid pictures, Bummer.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

AJ is a US citizen you didiot.

Are you sure?

I just sent Len my certificate of live birth... wait, ooops, it doesn't say "birth certificate", doh!

WHAT? I thought it was a collection of nekkid pictures, Bummer.

I would never do that to you.... i don't hate you that much!

[Chica Yeyé 41]

AJ is a US citizen you didiot.

Are you sure?

I just sent Len my certificate of live birth... wait, ooops, it doesn't say "birth certificate", doh!

WHAT? I thought it was a collection of nekkid pictures, Bummer.

I would never do that to you.... i don't hate you that much!

I was going to sell them to eric. you are mean.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

AJ is a US citizen you didiot.

Are you sure?

I just sent Len my certificate of live birth... wait, ooops, it doesn't say "birth certificate", doh!

WHAT? I thought it was a collection of nekkid pictures, Bummer.

I would never do that to you.... i don't hate you that much!

I was going to sell them to eric. you are mean.

you really have to stop collecting nekkid pics of vj dudes. yer a married woman, for gods sakes!