Bipartisan talks on the auto industry bailout have

[Caladan 19]

Well William, I am not surprised one bit.

The ridiculous salaries of the UAW ($75.00 per hour) versus the US employees making foreign vehicles ($43.00 per hour) is of major concern to me. Apparently, Senators called for the UAW to match the latter and the deal collapsed. No surprise there, unions sukc and cause companies to collapse. I would love to stand on a production line and do some mindless work for that kind of $$$. We can't get those jobs unless we know someone.

Just as a note, that number's not actually correct. $73 per hour is what you get if you take total employee costs which includes pensions and divide it by the number of current employees. That is, the legacy costs, not the current employees, and not the current union contract, are what's killing the company. (This is an easy Google; lots of people have been on this.) If they fired a bunch of their highest paid laborers their per head labor costs would go up. (And that's why it's a bad number to use, because it leads you to the wrong conclusions.)

The problem is that GM agreed to the pensions when they had a greater market share and they gambled that they could maintain it. That's not true these days, and while it's still true that American manufactures sell a majority of cars in the U.S., it's not enough.

Michigan's already pretty screwed, but bankruptcy and restructuring might be the only way out of this mess. I hope the lawmakers look out for the retirees and the region.

Caladan,

You did not read the entire thread, did you?

We already covered that and more.......

I did, but it bears repeating, because if workers in Michigan were making $73 an hour, Detroit would look like Manhattan.

[tsunamihart 0]

Well William, I am not surprised one bit.

The ridiculous salaries of the UAW ($75.00 per hour) versus the US employees making foreign vehicles ($43.00 per hour) is of major concern to me. Apparently, Senators called for the UAW to match the latter and the deal collapsed. No surprise there, unions sukc and cause companies to collapse. I would love to stand on a production line and do some mindless work for that kind of $$$. We can't get those jobs unless we know someone.

Just as a note, that number's not actually correct. $73 per hour is what you get if you take total employee costs which includes pensions and divide it by the number of current employees. That is, the legacy costs, not the current employees, and not the current union contract, are what's killing the company. (This is an easy Google; lots of people have been on this.) If they fired a bunch of their highest paid laborers their per head labor costs would go up. (And that's why it's a bad number to use, because it leads you to the wrong conclusions.)

The problem is that GM agreed to the pensions when they had a greater market share and they gambled that they could maintain it. That's not true these days, and while it's still true that American manufactures sell a majority of cars in the U.S., it's not enough.

Michigan's already pretty screwed, but bankruptcy and restructuring might be the only way out of this mess. I hope the lawmakers look out for the retirees and the region.

Caladan,

You did not read the entire thread, did you?

We already covered that and more.......

I did, but it bears repeating, because if workers in Michigan were making $73 an hour, Detroit would look like Manhattan.

I do not work for the Auto's but I can't stand the folks that think this is a Michigan only situation. If the Auto's go down, the domino effect will be devastating. I don't care what the stupid Senator from Alabama feelings are, he was regulated and didn't have any strings attached when he got the goverment to build an addition to his alma mater for 35 million..named Shelby Hall or the millions he's brought from the goverment for his state in other ventures...but save the economy? Apparently that's rediculous...I fear for this country that gives the freakin banking industry a 700 billion no regulations loan except to "trickle it down" and we're nixing the Big 3 bailout over political PARTISAN BS....

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

UAW employees make up only 10% of Detroit's labor costs - people always forget about the office workers for these companies who are not union.

also, I don't hear too many complaints about federal money being used to attract foreign auto companies to southern states (most of them receving more in federal tax moeny than they give; MI is a donor state) Alabama received $253 million incentive package to Mercedes. Plus, Alabama agreed to purchase 2,500 vehicles from Mercedes. While the bridge loan the Big Three is requesting will be paid back, Alabama's $180,000-plus per job was pure incentive

Also, after 9/11, the Big Three and Harley Davidson gave $40 million-plus emergency vehicles to the recovery efforts. What was given to the 9/11 relief effort by the Asian and European Auto Manufactures? Absolutely nothing.

[Donna A 4]

Debunking the myth of the $70-per-hour autoworker

I agree with the tenets of the article. I was speaking of the "total compensation package" to include "legacy" costs to the company. Although, UAW workers do get better than a salary of $23.00 per hour. More like: $40 an hour.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/10/business...&ei=5087%0A

more like $28/hr and i would love to gladly let u do my job for a day. i think u would change ur tune after about an hour.

to the person who says its $65,000 a year....more like around $58,000. ur just a few thousand off.

Edited January 19, 2009 by Donna A

[Dr. A ♥ O 203]

deja vu. like wind through the willow trees.