Bipartisan talks on the auto industry bailout have

[William33 110]

You speak the sad truth....

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

GM hires bankruptcy lawyers

[William33 110]

GM hires bankruptcy lawyers

Not good news for the economy, but they did it to themselves. Sadly, we taxpayers will foot the bill for that f'up. No more American cars for us.

I don't like paying for repairs before the vehicle is paid off. Never had that problem with the Acura (Honda) or Toyota line.

[Dan J 277]

I wouldn't mind seeing Detroit die but I think the descent has to be managed. The shock needs to be spread out over time.

I tend to agree with this. The only reason to keeping the Detroit 3 alive is to prevent the impact on the workers and economies where they are concentrated. But that can be managed in other ways.

[William33 110]

GM hires bankruptcy lawyers

Not good news for the economy, but they did it to themselves. Sadly, we taxpayers will foot the bill for that f'up. No more American cars for us.

I don't like paying for repairs before the vehicle is paid off. Never had that problem with the Acura (Honda) or Toyota line.

Apparently, it does not seem to matter, since the White House is prepared to parcel off some bailout funds with no restrictions.....That sux royally....

http://money.cnn.com/2008/12/11/news/compa...sion=2008121122

[Dan J 277]

GM hires bankruptcy lawyers

Not good news for the economy, but they did it to themselves. Sadly, we taxpayers will foot the bill for that f'up. No more American cars for us.

I don't like paying for repairs before the vehicle is paid off. Never had that problem with the Acura (Honda) or Toyota line.

The brands still have some weight, and might sell to investors, but no where near at what they used to be worth.

[Caladan 19]

Well William, I am not surprised one bit.

The ridiculous salaries of the UAW ($75.00 per hour) versus the US employees making foreign vehicles ($43.00 per hour) is of major concern to me. Apparently, Senators called for the UAW to match the latter and the deal collapsed. No surprise there, unions sukc and cause companies to collapse. I would love to stand on a production line and do some mindless work for that kind of $$$. We can't get those jobs unless we know someone.

Just as a note, that number's not actually correct. $73 per hour is what you get if you take total employee costs which includes pensions and divide it by the number of current employees. That is, the legacy costs, not the current employees, and not the current union contract, are what's killing the company. (This is an easy Google; lots of people have been on this.) If they fired a bunch of their highest paid laborers their per head labor costs would go up. (And that's why it's a bad number to use, because it leads you to the wrong conclusions.)

The problem is that GM agreed to the pensions when they had a greater market share and they gambled that they could maintain it. That's not true these days, and while it's still true that American manufactures sell a majority of cars in the U.S., it's not enough.

Michigan's already pretty screwed, but bankruptcy and restructuring might be the only way out of this mess. I hope the lawmakers look out for the retirees and the region.

[William33 110]

Well William, I am not surprised one bit.

The ridiculous salaries of the UAW ($75.00 per hour) versus the US employees making foreign vehicles ($43.00 per hour) is of major concern to me. Apparently, Senators called for the UAW to match the latter and the deal collapsed. No surprise there, unions sukc and cause companies to collapse. I would love to stand on a production line and do some mindless work for that kind of $$$. We can't get those jobs unless we know someone.

Just as a note, that number's not actually correct. $73 per hour is what you get if you take total employee costs which includes pensions and divide it by the number of current employees. That is, the legacy costs, not the current employees, and not the current union contract, are what's killing the company. (This is an easy Google; lots of people have been on this.) If they fired a bunch of their highest paid laborers their per head labor costs would go up. (And that's why it's a bad number to use, because it leads you to the wrong conclusions.)

The problem is that GM agreed to the pensions when they had a greater market share and they gambled that they could maintain it. That's not true these days, and while it's still true that American manufactures sell a majority of cars in the U.S., it's not enough.

Michigan's already pretty screwed, but bankruptcy and restructuring might be the only way out of this mess. I hope the lawmakers look out for the retirees and the region.

Caladan,

You did not read the entire thread, did you?

We already covered that and more.......

[spookyturtle 9,466]

The only reason to keeping the Detroit 3 alive is to prevent the impact on the workers and economies where they are concentrated. But that can be managed in other ways.

How?

[spookyturtle 9,466]

Agreed with the general sentiment on unions.

As long as you aren't a member of one.

[mawilson 2,133]

I wouldn't mind seeing Detroit die but I think the descent has to be managed. The shock needs to be spread out over time.

I wouldn't mind seeing Tokyo and Seoul die

[HAL 9000 96]

I wouldn't mind seeing Detroit die but I think the descent has to be managed. The shock needs to be spread out over time.

I wouldn't mind seeing Tokyo and Seoul die

Tokyo is too cool to die.

[Donna A 4]

as a employee of gm i will tell u...i dont even make 65k a year...try just a little under 60k. are my benifits great? not as great as my husbands...i pay full office visit....my husband pays 15/visit. did they pay for my orthotics...no did my husbands yes....the benifits are not as good as they once were.

lets not forget the last contract.....the newbies only get 14/hr and no benifits. they have made concessions that are not included in this 70+/hr figure. they are only going but the top paid workers. so again marking up the real price of legacy.

my husband is a doctor. the govt gives the hospital 150,000/year for his training. he brings home 40,000/year. where is the rest of the money going? is that fair someone who is educated getting on 40k/year and working sometimes up to 30 hours per day?

nothing in this life is fair. people need to stop worring about what someone else makes or does and worry about their own lives.

people need to worry a little more about keeping america running instead of how much someone else is making.

Edited December 12, 2008 by Donna A

[Donna A 4]

NEWS JUST IN:

http://money.cnn.com/2008/12/11/news/compa...sion=2008121122

[HAL 9000 96]

as a employee of gm i will tell u...i dont even make 65k a year...try just a little under 60k. are my benifits great? not as great as my husbands...i pay full office visit....my husband pays 15/visit. did they pay for my orthotics...no did my husbands yes....the benifits are not as good as they once were.

lets not forget the last contract.....the newbies only get 14/hr and no benifits. they have made concessions that are not included in this 70+/hr figure. they are only going but the top paid workers. so again marking up the real price of legacy.

my husband is a doctor. the govt gives the hospital 150,000/year for his training. he brings home 40,000/year. where is the rest of the money going? is that fair someone who is educated getting on 40k/year and working sometimes up to 30 hours per day?

nothing in this life is fair. people need to stop worring about what someone else makes or does and worry about their own lives.

people need to worry a little more about keeping america running instead of how much someone else is making.

So true...

It is quite insane how we see posts and threads from folks that say they make quite a ton of money, while spending so much time here chatting it up... and then complaining about others that they claim make good money, but in reality actually don't. Weird.