Need a postive, informative but urgent reply

[pushbrk 12,569]

If I were your Consular Officer, I'd be thinking, "Well he lied about having his police certificate, so what else is he lying about? Can I believe anything he says?" Good luck getting a visa after lying in writing to immigration officials.

That's a harsh and unnecessary response.

The simple answer is a visa will not be granted until all required police certificates have been provided to the consulate.

If all other documentation asked for by the consulate is adequate, London will approve the visa pending the receipt of the Pakistani police certificate.

You seem to be forgetting about the "interview". Getting a visa particularly for a citizen of Pakistan (even in London) takes more than "documentation". There is likely to be far more scrutiny of this applicant than for a UK citizen. I told the poster what I would be thinking so he can be prepared. Sometimes reality is harsh and a visa interview is "real".

I'm not forgetting about anything.

Firstly, we are not certain the beneficiary is a citizen of Pakistan. All we know is he needs a police certificate from that country.

Secondly, the UK is a very diverse nation. Walk down the streets of London if you need evidence of that. A person who is 'brown' isn't going to raise the eyebrows of a CO at that consulate one bit.

I based my conclusion on his brother being the one obtaining the police certificate in Pakistan. If he is a native of the UK, then you're right, the extra scrutiny probably doesn't apply. Otherwise, while skin color won't raise any eyebrows, a Pakistani passport will trigger the required additional scrutiny.

While I'm sure you didn't forget about the interview, your post directly stated, "If all other documentation asked for by the consulate is adequate, London will approve the visa pending the receipt of the Pakistani police certificate." The interview, particularly for a young male from the middle east, is extremely critical. My comments refer to the interview, and when a Consular officer spots one lie, they tend to assume there are others.

Regardless, I suspect the visa won't be approved until after a period of AP. (if a Pakistan passport)

[Otto 83]

I'm not forgetting about anything.

Firstly, we are not certain the beneficiary is a citizen of Pakistan. All we know is he needs a police certificate from that country.The OP's other posts indicate he's Pakistani in UK on student visa

Secondly, the UK is a very diverse nation. Walk down the streets of London if you need evidence of that. A person who is 'brown' isn't going to raise the eyebrows of a CO at that consulate one bit.

Am not sure anyone has played a race-card here. Simple global-reality for folks coming from Pakistan is that there will be a bit more scrutiny than for those from other parts of the world.

[toma1 10]

he's Pakistani in UK on student visa

WooooW... I wouldn't want to create even the tiniest ripple of doubt in that embassy.

I can't believe the other poster insinuated that this was a skin color issue originating in the members of this board. It may be a country of origin issue, but even then, it is not the posters here that made it that way.

[rebeccajo 14]

If I were your Consular Officer, I'd be thinking, "Well he lied about having his police certificate, so what else is he lying about? Can I believe anything he says?" Good luck getting a visa after lying in writing to immigration officials.

That's a harsh and unnecessary response.

The simple answer is a visa will not be granted until all required police certificates have been provided to the consulate.

If all other documentation asked for by the consulate is adequate, London will approve the visa pending the receipt of the Pakistani police certificate.

You seem to be forgetting about the "interview". Getting a visa particularly for a citizen of Pakistan (even in London) takes more than "documentation". There is likely to be far more scrutiny of this applicant than for a UK citizen. I told the poster what I would be thinking so he can be prepared. Sometimes reality is harsh and a visa interview is "real".

I'm not forgetting about anything.

Firstly, we are not certain the beneficiary is a citizen of Pakistan. All we know is he needs a police certificate from that country.

Secondly, the UK is a very diverse nation. Walk down the streets of London if you need evidence of that. A person who is 'brown' isn't going to raise the eyebrows of a CO at that consulate one bit.

I based my conclusion on his brother being the one obtaining the police certificate in Pakistan. If he is a native of the UK, then you're right, the extra scrutiny probably doesn't apply. Otherwise, while skin color won't raise any eyebrows, a Pakistani passport will trigger the required additional scrutiny.

While I'm sure you didn't forget about the interview, your post directly stated, "If all other documentation asked for by the consulate is adequate, London will approve the visa pending the receipt of the Pakistani police certificate." The interview, particularly for a young male from the middle east, is extremely critical. My comments refer to the interview, and when a Consular officer spots one lie, they tend to assume there are others.

Regardless, I suspect the visa won't be approved until after a period of AP. (if a Pakistan passport)

I am not anecdotally familiar with AP (as the term is used here on VJ - vetting after the interview but before visa issuance) to be something performed by the London consulate.

I am familiar with persons of middle-eastern origin who will ultimately apply for a visa in London to find their stateside petition to take longer for approval than others.

At any rate, there is broad anecdotal evidence that visa applicants through London who were born in other nations find their consular process to be exactly like the process of native born UK'ers.

he's Pakistani in UK on student visa

WooooW... I wouldn't want to create even the tiniest ripple of doubt in that embassy.

I can't believe the other poster insinuated that this was a skin color issue originating in the members of this board. It may be a country of origin issue, but even then, it is not the posters here that made it that way.

It is not a skin color issue. It is a cultural perception issue. I find it unnecessary to raise the issue in the OP's thread. His police certificate is all the US government is asking of him.

There is no need to create further hurdles in the applicants mind where there in no anecdotal evidence to suggest such alarm.

Edited December 7, 2008 by rebeccajo

[pushbrk 12,569]

If I were your Consular Officer, I'd be thinking, "Well he lied about having his police certificate, so what else is he lying about? Can I believe anything he says?" Good luck getting a visa after lying in writing to immigration officials.

That's a harsh and unnecessary response.

The simple answer is a visa will not be granted until all required police certificates have been provided to the consulate.

If all other documentation asked for by the consulate is adequate, London will approve the visa pending the receipt of the Pakistani police certificate.

You seem to be forgetting about the "interview". Getting a visa particularly for a citizen of Pakistan (even in London) takes more than "documentation". There is likely to be far more scrutiny of this applicant than for a UK citizen. I told the poster what I would be thinking so he can be prepared. Sometimes reality is harsh and a visa interview is "real".

I'm not forgetting about anything.

Firstly, we are not certain the beneficiary is a citizen of Pakistan. All we know is he needs a police certificate from that country.

Secondly, the UK is a very diverse nation. Walk down the streets of London if you need evidence of that. A person who is 'brown' isn't going to raise the eyebrows of a CO at that consulate one bit.

I based my conclusion on his brother being the one obtaining the police certificate in Pakistan. If he is a native of the UK, then you're right, the extra scrutiny probably doesn't apply. Otherwise, while skin color won't raise any eyebrows, a Pakistani passport will trigger the required additional scrutiny.

While I'm sure you didn't forget about the interview, your post directly stated, "If all other documentation asked for by the consulate is adequate, London will approve the visa pending the receipt of the Pakistani police certificate." The interview, particularly for a young male from the middle east, is extremely critical. My comments refer to the interview, and when a Consular officer spots one lie, they tend to assume there are others.

Regardless, I suspect the visa won't be approved until after a period of AP. (if a Pakistan passport)

I am not anecdotally familiar with AP (as the term is used here on VJ - vetting after the interview but before visa issuance) to be something performed by the London consulate.

I am familiar with persons of middle-eastern origin who will ultimately apply for a visa in London to find their stateside petition to take longer for approval than others.

At any rate, there is broad anecdotal evidence that visa applicants through London who were born in other nations find their consular process to be exactly like the process of native born UK'ers.

he's Pakistani in UK on student visa

WooooW... I wouldn't want to create even the tiniest ripple of doubt in that embassy.

I can't believe the other poster insinuated that this was a skin color issue originating in the members of this board. It may be a country of origin issue, but even then, it is not the posters here that made it that way.

It is not a skin color issue. It is a cultural perception issue. I find it unnecessary to raise the issue in the OP's thread. His police certificate is all the US government is asking of him.

There is no need to create further hurdles in the applicants mind where there in no anecdotal evidence to suggest such alarm.

On the contrary, in my opinion and my opinion is what I am expressing, there is substantial anecdotal evidence the OP needs to be concerned about having lied to an immigration official in writing.

At the moment, they are asking for a document but before he gets a visa he has to pass an interview in which the CO will become aware he lied once already. This is a visa process not a document submission process.

[toma1 10]

On the contrary, in my opinion and my opinion is what I am expressing, there is substantial anecdotal evidence the OP needs to be concerned about having lied to an immigration official in writing.

At the moment, they are asking for a document but before he gets a visa he has to pass an interview in which the CO will become aware he lied once already. This is a visa process not a document submission process.

This is why showing up with a copy may be the best course of action. Packet 3 does not technically say that to police cert cannot be a copy.

[pushbrk 12,569]

On the contrary, in my opinion and my opinion is what I am expressing, there is substantial anecdotal evidence the OP needs to be concerned about having lied to an immigration official in writing.

At the moment, they are asking for a document but before he gets a visa he has to pass an interview in which the CO will become aware he lied once already. This is a visa process not a document submission process.

This is why showing up with a copy may be the best course of action. Packet 3 does not technically say that to police cert cannot be a copy.

Right, a copy constitutes a mistake. No police report constitutes a lie.

[LorriQ 0]

On the contrary, in my opinion and my opinion is what I am expressing, there is substantial anecdotal evidence the OP needs to be concerned about having lied to an immigration official in writing.

At the moment, they are asking for a document but before he gets a visa he has to pass an interview in which the CO will become aware he lied once already. This is a visa process not a document submission process.

This is why showing up with a copy may be the best course of action. Packet 3 does not technically say that to police cert cannot be a copy.

Right, a copy constitutes a mistake. No police report constitutes a lie.

Assuming quite a lot here people!

Isn't it possible that he honestly thought he would have the "notarized" certificate by the time his interview was scheduled? And yes, he pushed the envelope by saying he had all documents - but it was an easy mistake. I think you may be terrorizing the poor fellow with all this "lying" and other such arguments. There are some countries that the beneficiary cannot hand deliver the police certificate (ie my circumstance) - how's to know which it is without asking?

The CO's understand all the hoops and legalities can be confusing. You are making them sound more like Nazi's!

[rebeccajo 14]

Assuming quite a lot here people!

Isn't it possible that he honestly thought he would have the "notarized" certificate by the time his interview was scheduled? And yes, he pushed the envelope by saying he had all documents - but it was an easy mistake. I think you may be terrorizing the poor fellow with all this "lying" and other such arguments. There are some countries that the beneficiary cannot hand deliver the police certificate (ie my circumstance) - how's to know which it is without asking?

The CO's understand all the hoops and legalities can be confusing. You are making them sound more like Nazi's!

I agree.

The visa applicant erred in sending his checklist before he had all documentation in hand. But it happens frequently and hardly warrants the grilling he is being given.

[pushbrk 12,569]

Assuming quite a lot here people!

Isn't it possible that he honestly thought he would have the "notarized" certificate by the time his interview was scheduled? And yes, he pushed the envelope by saying he had all documents - but it was an easy mistake. I think you may be terrorizing the poor fellow with all this "lying" and other such arguments. There are some countries that the beneficiary cannot hand deliver the police certificate (ie my circumstance) - how's to know which it is without asking?

The CO's understand all the hoops and legalities can be confusing. You are making them sound more like Nazi's!

I agree.

The visa applicant erred in sending his checklist before he had all documentation in hand. But it happens frequently and hardly warrants the grilling he is being given.

Who's grilling him. He's being told what to prepare for so he has appropriate expectations. He'll have an interview. Whether he's "grilled" in the interview will be up to the CO who will be guided by the totality of the circumstances. (of which we are not aware)

The error was in in thinking the lie would not be found out. The consequences are left to be determined. The idea of providing a copy is likely to mitigate any potential for the kind of consequences I mentioned.

Edited December 7, 2008 by pushbrk

[Zayd 0]

If someone believes the person's nationality or country of origin does not matter at the interview, then just compare the rates of administrative processing (AP) between different countries. Given this individual is from Pakistan and not the UK, it is very suspicious in my estimation to not have the police certificate from the place where you spent most of your life.

Moreover, there is a problem even with bringing a copy of the police certificate with you. The checklist that you submitted for the interview is dated. They could just compare the date on the police certificate to the date on the checklist and prove you are lying unequivocally. You should never under any circumstances lie to immigration authorities. Pushbrk is definitely right that even one noticed lie can bring significantly more scrutiny. Those who are untruthful deserve to be grilled and should prepare for the CO to do it.

[rebeccajo 14]

Assuming quite a lot here people!

Isn't it possible that he honestly thought he would have the "notarized" certificate by the time his interview was scheduled? And yes, he pushed the envelope by saying he had all documents - but it was an easy mistake. I think you may be terrorizing the poor fellow with all this "lying" and other such arguments. There are some countries that the beneficiary cannot hand deliver the police certificate (ie my circumstance) - how's to know which it is without asking?

The CO's understand all the hoops and legalities can be confusing. You are making them sound more like Nazi's!

I agree.

The visa applicant erred in sending his checklist before he had all documentation in hand. But it happens frequently and hardly warrants the grilling he is being given.

Who's grilling him. He's being told what to prepare for so he has appropriate expectations. He'll have an interview. Whether he's "grilled" in the interview will be up to the CO who will be guided by the totality of the circumstances. (of which we are not aware)

The error was in in thinking the lie would not be found out. The consequences are left to be determined. The idea of providing a copy is likely to mitigate any potential for the kind of consequences I mentioned.

A copy is inconsequential as it is not sufficient to stop a delay of issuance of the visa. And that is the matter at hand. The consequences you mention are speculative at best and more likely imaginative.

Edited December 7, 2008 by rebeccajo

[rebeccajo 14]

If someone believes the person's nationality or country of origin does not matter at the interview, then just compare the rates of administrative processing (AP) between different countries. Given this individual is from Pakistan and not the UK, it is very suspicious in my estimation to not have the police certificate from the place where you spent most of your life.

Moreover, there is a problem even with bringing a copy of the police certificate with you. The checklist that you submitted for the interview is dated. They could just compare the date on the police certificate to the date on the checklist and prove you are lying unequivocally. You should never under any circumstances lie to immigration authorities. Pushbrk is definitely right that even one noticed lie can bring significantly more scrutiny. Those who are untruthful deserve to be grilled and should prepare for the CO to do it.

It is not suspicious to not have the police certificate. It is poor preparation, but not 'suspicious'.

[pushbrk 12,569]

If someone believes the person's nationality or country of origin does not matter at the interview, then just compare the rates of administrative processing (AP) between different countries. Given this individual is from Pakistan and not the UK, it is very suspicious in my estimation to not have the police certificate from the place where you spent most of your life.

Moreover, there is a problem even with bringing a copy of the police certificate with you. The checklist that you submitted for the interview is dated. They could just compare the date on the police certificate to the date on the checklist and prove you are lying unequivocally. You should never under any circumstances lie to immigration authorities. Pushbrk is definitely right that even one noticed lie can bring significantly more scrutiny. Those who are untruthful deserve to be grilled and should prepare for the CO to do it.

It is not suspicious to not have the police certificate. It is poor preparation, but not 'suspicious'.

It's the lie the brings the suspicion. The lack of the police report is the evidence of the lie.

Yes, I expect the copy will not be sufficient to to avoid delaying the visa but nobody suggested otherwise. The copy can turn the perception of a lie to the perception of a mistake thereby opening the possibility of avoiding the extra scrutiny being caught in a lie would bring.

You think I'm exaggerating. I'm don't think so and I doubt you'll find much agreement with your position if you spout it in the MENA forum. It's seven years after 9/11 and this is a young man from Pakistan. He's likely to be waiting through AP anyway. No need to bring extra scrutiny on himself. The lie has already been told. Providing the copy, if possible is a great idea.

[toma1 10]

I'm a professor, and I've been grading my MBA students' papers today. A couple of them did not follow some basic written directions that were passed out at the beginning of the term. They had several months to make sure that they followed these instructions, so I do not look favorably on papers that have not followed the guidelines. When I see that they did not do so, I deduct points for the omission. BUT... I also tend to give those papers A LOT MORE SCRUTINY to see what else they might have been sloppy about. For example, I don't check every budget figure in every paper, but on these papers I DO. If I find enough problems with a paper, a failing grade will be assigned. In addition, if I find that (even minor) cheating was involved, a failing grade will be assigned regardless of he quality of the paper.

So my question is... am I being too harsh on my students?

Oh... this is an immigration forum. I apologize for the off topic post.

Edited December 7, 2008 by toma1