Should Someone Who Lies About Their Education Be Fired?

[Niels Bohr 72]

In marriage when I lie to my wife, she'll kill me. Whereas if I lie in work I don't get killed. That is the difference.

[Nessa 23]

how about my case? I have 4 years of college, if i tell my employer that and that's a requirement for my job and they hire me based on my word, am I lying becase those 4 years are wortheless in the States? therefore I have no college degree valid for that job position?

[MrsCat 6]

how about my case? I have 4 years of college, if i tell my employer that and that's a requirement for my job and they hire me based on my word, am I lying becase those 4 years are wortheless in the States? therefore I have no college degree valid for that job position?

Not at all. You do have 4 years of college. It would only be a lie if they specifically asked for an accredited college in the USA.

[Ling Ling 22]

I disagree that a lie told in a marriage is an equitable comparison here.

Cool

On what basis?

Are you saying sometimes it's OK to lie to your spouse (who should be one of the most important people in your life)

but telling a lie to anyone else should always result in termination?

I am not saying any of those things. I am just saying if we were arguing the marriage angle with <insert whatever lie in here> I would have a different perspective.

How and why would your perspective be different?

Are you purposely being vague?

I am not being vague - I already stated I dont think the marriage lie example is relevant, therefore why would I argue the point it?

Ehhhh, I was interested in hearing your point, but you haven't made one nor argued one, you've only made vague statements.

Saying you don't agree is not making a point. Saying you would have a different perspective, is not making a point. They are in fact vague statements.

[Nessa 23]

how about my case? I have 4 years of college, if i tell my employer that and that's a requirement for my job and they hire me based on my word, am I lying becase those 4 years are wortheless in the States? therefore I have no college degree valid for that job position?

Not at all. You do have 4 years of college. It would only be a lie if they specifically asked for an accredited college in the USA.

well i wouldn't lie about that.

[Ling Ling 22]

how about my case? I have 4 years of college, if i tell my employer that and that's a requirement for my job and they hire me based on my word, am I lying becase those 4 years are wortheless in the States? therefore I have no college degree valid for that job position?

Not at all. You do have 4 years of college. It would only be a lie if they specifically asked for an accredited college in the USA.

However in this case, were the applicant to know the difference between 4 years of college and a US college degree,

then they have taken advantage of the situation, not fully disclosed their education, and essentially embellished a truth.

To some here, that is in fact a lie, and ALWAYS grounds for termination.

I would suggest that it could be grounds to CONSIDER termination or other options without severing employment.

For instance, perhaps there are also people in his/her position without the educational requirement, but at a different pay grade.

If he/she were a good employee, adjusting title, position, salary might be an acceptable measure.

If the position required licensing or some other requirement based on education, then clearly termination would be the only option.

[*Robert* 2]

I still confirm my opinion that it is not okay to knowingly give false information on a job application, which is why most job applications clearly state that knowingly providing false or inaccurate information on the application is grounds for dismissal.

For me it's black and white.

Why would an employer want to hire someone who can't even fill out an application properly?! I'm sure there are plenty of other qualified applicants out there who wouldn't lie, or feel compelled to lie, in order to get a job.

It's just wrong, and I'd like to hear some compelling argument as to why it would be okay?

Edited December 6, 2008 by roi_aggie

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Nessa,

Your education isn't "worthless" here. You should (if you haven't already) get it evaluated, it will likely evaluate to some non-trivial number of undergraduate credits.

However in this case, were the applicant to know the difference between 4 years of college and a US college degree,

then they have taken advantage of the situation, not fully disclosed their education, and essentially embellished a truth.

How many times have yo ubeen asked if you have a degree without having to state where you got it?

Foreign degree holders typically say they have a degree and then name the issuing institution. That's not a lie or an embellishment.

[Ling Ling 22]

Nessa,

Your education isn't "worthless" here. You should (if you haven't already) get it evaluated, it will likely evaluate to some non-trivial number of undergraduate credits.

However in this case, were the applicant to know the difference between 4 years of college and a US college degree,

then they have taken advantage of the situation, not fully disclosed their education, and essentially embellished a truth.

How many times have yo ubeen asked if you have a degree without having to state where you got it?

Foreign degree holders typically say they have a degree and then name the issuing institution. That's not a lie or an embellishment.

If you KNOW that your degree is not currently valid in the US and that you would not be considered if you disclosed such, then it is a lie or an embellishment

If you're ignorant to the difference, then no, it's not a lie.

Edited December 6, 2008 by Ling Ling

[Ling Ling 22]

I still confirm my opinion that it is not okay to knowingly give false information on a job application, which is why most job applications clearly state that knowingly providing false or inaccurate information on the application is grounds for dismissal.

For me it's black and white.

Why would an employer want to hire someone who can't even fill out an application properly?! I'm sure there are plenty of other qualified applicants out there who wouldn't lie, or feel compelled to lie, in order to get a job.

It's just wrong, and I'd like to hear some compelling argument as to why it would be okay?

In a way, isn't marriage a type of job? Isn't it a more important job, with more important responsibilities?

Your relationship would be put under "serious strain" because your spouse told an untruth about something?

Does that mean that you have NEVER told an untruth, embellished the truth, or failed to give complete disclosure when asked a question?

In your entire life? Including childhood?

Again, I'm not advocating misrepresentation of the truth, but I'm saying that each case has to be judged for what is right for the business,

as with what is right for the marriage.

I mean, if your wife lied to you in order to plan a surprise party, would that put serious strain on your relationship or trust?

Consideration to terminate, or modify terms of employment must always be considered on a case-by-case basis.

Let's take the case of a foreigner who has a degree, but didn't know the degree wasn't equivalent or accepted in the US,

they have unknowingly lied about their eduction, but have been the best employee for 20 years, should they be terminated instantly because they

couldn't even fill out an application properly?

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Nessa,

Your education isn't "worthless" here. You should (if you haven't already) get it evaluated, it will likely evaluate to some non-trivial number of undergraduate credits.

However in this case, were the applicant to know the difference between 4 years of college and a US college degree,

then they have taken advantage of the situation, not fully disclosed their education, and essentially embellished a truth.

How many times have yo ubeen asked if you have a degree without having to state where you got it?

Foreign degree holders typically say they have a degree and then name the issuing institution. That's not a lie or an embellishment.

If you KNOW that your degree is not currently valid in the US and that you would not be considered if you disclosed such, then it is a lie or an embellishment

If you're ignorant to the difference, then no, it's not a lie.

Foreign degrees are not 'invalid' in the US.

They are routinely used as the basis for employment-based petitions.

The issue here is that they don't always fully evaluate, for transfer of credit or graduate admissions purposes.

There's a difference and you're just being argumentative now

[Nessa 23]

i could get it evaluated and i'would not even be equivalent to a year here. the classes are completely different, you guys don't even have a degree called publicidade e propaganda. there's marketing, but that wasn't exaclty what i did, i could've done marketing i had the option.

it's a college degree to work in advertising agencies pretty much. there's not even a translation for the word propaganda, how can i explain to my boss that it is a word used to describe advertising without having them thinking i'm a nazi?

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

i could get it evaluated and i'would not even be equivalent to a year here. the classes are completely different, you guys don't even have a degree called publicidade e propaganda. there's marketing, but that wasn't exaclty what i did, i could've done marketing i had the option.

it's a college degree to work in advertising agencies pretty much. there's not even a translation for the word propaganda, how can i explain to my boss that it is a word used to describe advertising without having them thinking i'm a nazi?

Instead of assuming things, get it evaluated. The eval agencies are equipped to translate Brazilian credentials into their American equivalents.

[MrsCat 6]

how about my case? I have 4 years of college, if i tell my employer that and that's a requirement for my job and they hire me based on my word, am I lying becase those 4 years are wortheless in the States? therefore I have no college degree valid for that job position?

Not at all. You do have 4 years of college. It would only be a lie if they specifically asked for an accredited college in the USA.

However in this case, were the applicant to know the difference between 4 years of college and a US college degree,

then they have taken advantage of the situation, not fully disclosed their education, and essentially embellished a truth.

To some here, that is in fact a lie, and ALWAYS grounds for termination.

I would suggest that it could be grounds to CONSIDER termination or other options without severing employment.

For instance, perhaps there are also people in his/her position without the educational requirement, but at a different pay grade.

If he/she were a good employee, adjusting title, position, salary might be an acceptable measure.

If the position required licensing or some other requirement based on education, then clearly termination would be the only option.

Loves ya LingLing but I vehemently disagree. If the minimum requires for the position states 4 years college then the onus is on the employer to specifically state that that education must be from an accredited. Its for the employer to ascertain the appropriate education and information they require to make a proper hiring decision. They also have the ability to request transcripts. I do not think its necessary to divulge information outside of what was requested.

[Ling Ling 22]

Foreign degrees are not 'invalid' in the US.

They are routinely used as the basis for employment-based petitions.

The issue here is that they don't always fully evaluate, for transfer of credit or graduate admissions purposes.

There's a difference and you're just being argumentative now

Dude, am NOT just being argumentative

There are some foreign colleges with the same or similar names as US institutions,

and the hiring person may not know that the degree is not valid in the US (whereas the applicant may).

If the applicant knowingly takes advantage of their ignorance or assumption, isn't that the same as embellishing or non-disclosure?

i could get it evaluated and i'would not even be equivalent to a year here. the classes are completely different, you guys don't even have a degree called publicidade e propaganda. there's marketing, but that wasn't exaclty what i did, i could've done marketing i had the option.

it's a college degree to work in advertising agencies pretty much. there's not even a translation for the word propaganda, how can i explain to my boss that it is a word used to describe advertising without having them thinking i'm a nazi?

Instead of assuming things, get it evaluated. The eval agencies are equipped to translate Brazilian credentials into their American equivalents.

Agreed, and some universities have programs that will give considerable credit for life experience.