Driver Education - Is it good enough in the USA?

[Heracles 417]

Downunder in the state of Victoria you must apply for a learners permit and drive with an adult (licensed driver) for one year minimum. When you are out driving you basically display an L in the car (front and back) indicating to other drivers you are learning to drive. This is only possible after you sit a written test and receive a learners permit.

Then once you are 18 and have completed 120 hours of driving in various roads and conditions ( day / night; Rain/ sunny; busy streets / freeways) you can apply for a drivers license. Which is a half hour drive and a written test. During the first three years of holding a license you must display a P (front and back) showing other drivers you are a probationary driver. You are not permitted to drive any high powered vehicle (V8, turbo charged, super charged, high powered six or modified engine) during this period and are not permitted to carry more than one passenger. Zero BAC (Blood Alcohol Content) while on probation. All drink driving offenders (including first-time offenders) will have to fit an alcohol ignition interlock when re licensed, for a minimum of six months.

We also have anti-hoon (hooligan) laws. Offenders are liable to have their vehicle(s) confiscated and/or impounded, regardless of who owns the vehicle(s). First offense: Fine + 48 hour impound. Second offense: Three month impound + Fine. Third Offense: Car sold by the State of Victoria, which keeps the proceeds.

Edited December 4, 2008 by Aficionado

[Niels Bohr 72]

I think the better solution to increasing education standard is to have tougher laws towards negligence. By doing so will probably decrease the number of aggressive drivers.

For example, a $500 for failing to stop completely at a stop sign. Or, $1000 fine plus community service for exceeding the speed limit or tailgating other drivers.

Edited December 4, 2008 by Niels Bohr

[Ling Ling 22]

I think the better solution to increasing education standard is to have tougher laws towards negligence. By doing so will probably decrease the number of aggressive drivers.

For example, a $500 for failing to stop completely at a stop sign. Or, $1000 fine plus community service for exceeding the speed limit or tailgating other drivers.

#######?

Do you realize that after you thought that, you typed it, and then you pushed the "add reply" button?

That makes no sense at all. Don't educate, just legislate?

Hefty fines are a good thing, but education (prevention) is equally if not more important.

I may be going out on a limb here, but your strategy reminds me of the folks who are anti-abortion, anti-sex education,

but pro death penalty. Nothing for prevention, save the time and money for punishment....wow!

Don't teach kids to cross the street...when they get hit hard enough by a car...that'll learn 'em.

[Laura+Tom 2]

I'm not sure if they upped the age to 18 now but previously you applied for a provisonal license from the age of 17. Doesn't matter how old you are you have to have a provisional license to learn to drive. You aren't allowed to drive by yourself, you have to have someone over the age or 21 with a full license with you.

It's very tough in the UK though. If you even touch the kerb doing a manouver it's an automatic fail. They recommend you take at least 24 hours of lessons before you attempt the 40min test. Took me 36 hours and two tests to pass as I touched the kerb whilst parallel parking. I'm glad it's hard as I think it makes you a better driver. I believe they have added more elements so now you take a theory test, practical test, hazard perception test and are also tested on certain engine parts.

Edited December 4, 2008 by Laura+Tom

[Ling Ling 22]

SNIPPED...I believe they have added more elements so now you take a theory test, practical test, hazard perception test and are also tested on certain engine parts.

Wow, knowing certain parts of the engine?

I was just talking to my mechanic today about people who come in, after 20K miles without an oil change, and then blame the car.

When I lived in the UK, I was REALLY impressed with the auto service when you're stuck on the road.

While the guys in the US won't do much more than put gas in, change a tire, jump the battery or tow you....the service guys in the UK came fully prepared to do just about anything short of an engine swap. They knew the ins and outs of the engine, and were willing to take the time to

figure out what the fault was. When they couldn't find the fault, they courteously delivered us to our destination as well as towing the car to service.

Most of the service guys here will tell you, they're not mechanics, and they're not taxi cabs.

[Laura+Tom 2]

SNIPPED...I believe they have added more elements so now you take a theory test, practical test, hazard perception test and are also tested on certain engine parts.

Wow, knowing certain parts of the engine?

I was just talking to my mechanic today about people who come in, after 20K miles without an oil change, and then blame the car.

When I lived in the UK, I was REALLY impressed with the auto service when you're stuck on the road.

While the guys in the US won't do much more than put gas in, change a tire, jump the battery or tow you....the service guys in the UK came fully prepared to do just about anything short of an engine swap. They knew the ins and outs of the engine, and were willing to take the time to

figure out what the fault was. When they couldn't find the fault, they courteously delivered us to our destination as well as towing the car to service.

Most of the service guys here will tell you, they're not mechanics, and they're not taxi cabs.

I believe you have to know where the oil, coolant, washer fluid goes in, where the battery is and how you check for oil levels. I think they also do something to do with tyres too.

EDIT

These are basic safety checks that a driver should carry out to ensure the vehicle is safe for use. Although some checks may involve the candidate in opening the bonnet to identify where fluid levels would be checked, pupils will not be asked to touch a hot engine or physically check fluid levels.

As vehicle technology advances, more and more vehicles are being equipped with electronic diagnostic systems, which inform the driver of the state of the engine fluid levels and tyre pressures. It will be acceptable for a candidate to refer to the vehicle information system (if fitted) when answering questions on fluid levels or tyre pressures.

You can find source material in the DSA publication 'The official guide to Driving - the essential skills' and 'The official DSA guide to learning to drive'. Advice and information on how to carry out vehicle safety checks can also be found in the manufacturer's handbook.

Candidates will be asked two questions, one 'show me' and one 'tell me'. One or both questions answered incorrectly will result in one driving fault being recorded.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/Learn...Test/DG_4022540

Edited December 4, 2008 by Laura+Tom

[NickD 203]

That kid that hit and almost killed me, should have never received a drivers license, they did take it away. My attorney could not sue the DMV, so why in the hell is the DMV issuing licenses when they have no liability? Never thought about that before. Driver's test is a joke, drive around town for a couple of blocks and have to parallel park. Really no place to parallel park in town anymore, all diagonal, so the DMV set up a piece of road with a couple of old wrecks parked on it. Nothing about driving on our interstate or highway system and especially nothing about driving on icy roads.

Wife had a heck of a time getting her license doing really nasty things like not using hand over hand steering and shifting a manual around a corner. Recall my 37 Cadillac requiring 12 turns on the steering wheel lock to lock, but this power steering rack and pinion contraption we have now only requires about 30* of rotation with 45* maximum for any corner in town, have to rotate the wheel 5* and slap your hand on the wheel for the next five. That makes you a safe driver, and if the engine revs to over 5,000 rpm in 1st gear, shouldn't hurt the car just for the few turns you have to make.

But you have to have a drivers license to pick up airline tickets or cash a personal check. Was waiting in line and the guy ahead of me didn't have enough proof, so was told to go home and bring a utility bill as proof. Thought about that, can call any utility company and tell them I am Adolph Hitler and get that name on my bill, they don't ask for proof.

We had a hell of a time renewing her license with that I-751 extension notice, DMV and even the guy in charge of our new state immigration never heard of it. Really got angry, but spent a week with faxes educating him, Governor Dolye finding approved her getting a renewed license. So after she got her certificate of natualization, I went in there to show them the original. Was told, that is not required, only has to check that she is a USC on the renewal form. My head was spinning, anybody can do that.

Thoroughly convinced I am living a country run by nuts. In Venzuela, all you need is a couple of bucks to get a license, and if you have a few more bucks, or Bolivars they use, can go right to the front of the line. Stoned drunk while driving, a few Bolivars will get you out of that.

[Niels Bohr 72]

Ling Ling,

No matter how hard we educate these fools, they'll just ignore whatever they learn. If the case was to improve education, then, it must also be done not just at the driving school but the grade schools as well.

I'm sure you've done well in school. As you have experienced from driving, even those who are educated have neglected the driving lessons from school. That is the problem. Therefore, improving or increasing standards in driving schools will probably not help.

[Ling Ling 22]

Niels,

Typically I'm the pessimist, I'm the cynic, I'm the one that has little faith in fools....so I understand your point.

My point is that we make it too easy for the fools to obtain licensing. If we had more extensive driver education (driving through different seasons)

and if it cost more money to obtain a license (as was confirmed, as a German citizen you won't get a license without paying at least $2,000)

and if the actual tests was more involved, we might have a chance of both improving the knowledge base of new drivers, as well as possibly eliminating those who are not willing to put in the time, money and effort to obtain said license.

I think we can both agree that it's too easy for most fools to get a license.

Perhaps we just have to agree to disagree on the possibility of stricter standards making better drivers.

Sure some fools will slip through, but I'd like to see where that's the exception, not the rule.

Edited December 4, 2008 by Ling Ling

[Niels Bohr 72]

I think we can both agree that it's too easy for most fools to get a license.

Perhaps we just have to agree to disagree on the possibility of stricter standards making better drivers.

Sure some fools will slip through, but I'd like to see where that's the exception, not the rule.

I agree. It is too easy for them to get one.

[Ling Ling 22]

Niels,

I think you and I would do a helluva job running this country.

[NickD 203]

In Wisconsin, while my step daughter received her license at 16, couldn't drive alone until she was 17 unless she had a licensed driver over 18 sitting next to her. In her case, was mommy or daddy. On top of this, is the cost of insurance, without extreme coverage, could take my home away if she got involved with an accident. Had to live with that until she was 18 then I am no longer liable for her or any kid.

Then we pay an extra bundle for uninsured or under insured motorist, but if you have to use it, your rates will go up. So if the damage to your vehicle is not to extensive, have to calculate whether you want to pay for the repair or file a claim, can be cheaper to pay for the claim.

Another nasty thing you learn if injured, the insurance companies already have the best law firms locked in, they are in the business of not paying claims. What really blew my mind, the opposing insurance company spent $50,000.00 to save $10,000.00 on my claim. Asked my attorney about that, doesn't make sense, says that is their accounting procedure.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I'm not sure if they upped the age to 18 now but previously you applied for a provisonal license from the age of 17. Doesn't matter how old you are you have to have a provisional license to learn to drive. You aren't allowed to drive by yourself, you have to have someone over the age or 21 with a full license with you.

It's very tough in the UK though. If you even touch the kerb doing a manouver it's an automatic fail. They recommend you take at least 24 hours of lessons before you attempt the 40min test. Took me 36 hours and two tests to pass as I touched the kerb whilst parallel parking. I'm glad it's hard as I think it makes you a better driver. I believe they have added more elements so now you take a theory test, practical test, hazard perception test and are also tested on certain engine parts.

It took me 7 attempts to pass mine. I even failed once with 1 major fault (getting stuck behind a broken down bus that looked like it was pulling out - you couldn't see one of the hazard flashers because of the angle) and 2 minor faults.

Failing with 2 minor faults is pretty much unheard of.

[NickD 203]

Ha, I went so far as to purchase an automatic transmission car for my wife to pass her test, car wasn't wasted, was going to be a present to my step daughter for her 16th birthday. Took my wife several minutes to get use to the idea that she had no reason to take both hands off the wheel, but she finally passed the 3rd time. She was flunked for taking her right hand off the wheel to shift going around a corner. I do that all the time and rest my right hand on the gear shift lever, especially in town, but not taking the test.

Had, a thought, if I could find 99 guys willing to put up $10,000.00 a piece, all good drivers, (like me, LOL), that would be a million bucks in a bank account drawing interest. If any one should have an accident, collision, comprehensive, or physical liability, the money would be there to cover it. If a couple of thousand is used that would be more typical per year, each person would have to contribute 20 bucks to the fund, minus the interest earned which wouldn't be very much considering around an extra $40,000.00 would be earned. A corporation would have to be formed, that's the problem so the courts would recognize it as an insurance company so the liability would be limited to that amount. That way, can say screw you to the insurance companies.

With my record, what I would draw from that fund would be zero, and at the current rate, sure doesn't take long to pay them $10,000.00. Just a tjhought.

[Mononoke28 135]

I got my driver's license when I turned 16 and testing was average, study the guide, pass the written test, go see that 4 hour movie and then take the driving test. I think that was good enough actually, just enough to prove you can drive.

In Colombia as of a couple of years ago, you didn't have to do anything but pay a fee, have a medical exam and that was that. Taking driving lessons was optional. I think they changed it and now you have to take a driving test but many people pay under the table to skip it.

Diana